This is a terrible situation. We are stuck between acting like assholes and releasing our major technological advantage for the Thunder Horse to gobble up at their leisure.

[X] Abstain

I cannot in good conscience vote for either.
 
I like how all of a sudden, after taking the High road every single time throughout the game, even when it was super stupid or annoying, everyone is going 'Let's attack when we were in the wrong! Let's turn into the bad guys!'

The fact is that if the war vote wins we will be in the wrong, we will be hypocrites. We will have made the Ymaryn from the peaceful elf farmer into new Rome.

I don't want to do that to our people, I don't want to undo everything we've tried to do for so long.
 
[X] Massively reinforce position (-5 Military, founds new March, war with Highlanders)

War happens all the time, you aren't necessarily evil because you go to war and you aren't necessarily the good guy because you don't go to war. The world is more than black and white.

We're totally in the wrong here, but that does not mean we're evil.
 
This is our chance to teach the filthy lowlanders how to farm and grow trees properly.

Forest will Consume All!
 
[X] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)

After some thought, there's no chance of the secret to iron getting out if a new faction forms. Let the assholes get what's coming to them.

War happens all the time, you aren't necessarily evil because you go to war and you aren't necessarily the good guy because you don't go to war. The world is more than black and white.

We're totally in the wrong here, but that does not mean we're evil.
It most certainly means we're evil in this case. We're doing evil not because it's the least evil, but because it's the easiest and most beneficial to us. That is evil through and through. There is no good justification for us to go to war, bar the protection of violent, evil assholes.
 
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Wait... giving them up means the Highlanders gain Iron?

The fuck Academia Nut! Did we roll a -100 or some shit?
 
Because it's fucking evil! One thousand years of being the good guys and you want to throw it away for this!? For something we can fix with a mere Main action!?
Fuck off with the good and evil. I'll take my kind, open-minded elves that genocide the nomads without second thought thank you very much!

Because abandoning the warriors- several of which thought they were defending themselves/acting in the service of the People is a grave miscarriage of justice. So fuck off with the self-righteous bullshit that involves abandoning decent Ymaryn to public execution and worse as being 'good'.

Any king too cowardly to protect his subjects loses legitimacy as a king. That's a fact.

[X] Massively reinforce position (-5 Military, founds new March, war with Highlanders)

And because an iron-wielding march stands a damn good chance of holding it's ground in the Lowlands against either the TH or the HK- especially with domestic support. If we're ever going to set foot into the Lowlands, doing it with a march and we have a tremendous glut of military and military tech.
 
OI! I expect some credit for that!
Sure. I won't say nobody else said it. I didn't exactly argue for it, myself, all I did was present my opinion of the likely end results (with extreme clan adaptation being 1-2 stability hit, and what was picked being 0-1, in so many words). I'm trying to just say what I want and be done with it, it's worked wonders for my blood pressure thus far.
 
[X] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)

After some thought, there's no chance of the secret to iron getting out if a new faction forms. Let the assholes get what's coming to them.


It most certainly means we're evil in this case. We're doing evil not because it's the least evil, but because it's the easiest and most beneficial to us. That is evil through and through. There is no good justification for us to go to war, bar the protection of violent, evil assholes.


That's pragmatism.
 
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)

No. We are NOT going to become another bunch of assholes. We should have given martial to Marches when we could have.
 
[X] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)

Screw it, protective justice time. The warriors screwed up through either malice or folly. They have to pay.
 
Because abandoning the warriors- several of which thought they were defending themselves/acting in the service of the People is a grave miscarriage of justice.
So instead of doing a minor wrong of allowing those decent warriors to die along with the many absolute asshole warriors, you say we should instead do a far greater wrong and protect those same asshole warriors? Fuck that.
 
On a more serious note, we're at negative stability, the people are pissed and there's a great deal of confusion about the new Clan systems. Being seen to abandon a bunch of people will not look good at all. And do keep in mind we have Martial overflow and pissed warriors. What would they do if they believe the king is working against thier interests? Or worse, the king is throwing them under the buss?
Concern noted. But verdammt, the first step is going to be hard. I do not want to try and trigger a more militaristic streak to the Ymaryn with two of the option but that point of yours is certainly valid.

I had said that there will be a bitter pill to swallow but which one to try and take is the hard one here. Either we double down and hope that we don't get too stuck in the grinder or we be more diplomatic and tries to get TGG activated somehow.
 
Okay. I realize that compromise isn't my favorite thing, but there is a way out of this.

[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)

It lets us satisfy both Justice and lets us keep our secrets without a breakaway province that also has Iron. And if the Highlanders decide to declare war? Well.
[X] Massively reinforce position (-5 Military, founds new March, war with Highlanders)

Fuck it. FARMING FOR EVERYBODY!
We do have a plan B. And with a clear casus belli this time!
 

Negative Stability + Max Military Malus Activated!

No one was exactly sure who was in charge, and in fact given the circumstances the possibility of no one currently being in charge seemed distinctly possible, but in any case a band of warriors had occupied the village in the lowlands just beyond the cataract that separated the People from the Highlanders. The stories coming back were not exactly coherent, with some claiming that the reason they had been gathered was for a long range trading expedition into the lowlands requiring additional escorts giving the conflict, while others said that they had in fact been actively recruited for the purpose of seizing control. In any case, it sounded like the group had approached the village as traders or in the guise of traders, someone had started a fight, and then things kept going until the People had realized that they were in control of the village because there was no one to oppose them, and the men decided that since they had fought and spilled blood over the issue they didn't feel like giving it back.

While it was just one relatively minor village, the Highlanders were obviously going to be livid. A retaliation force would obviously already be on their way, and they probably wouldn't take "Uhh... sorry, this was an accident" as an answer. While several advisors suggested just letting the fools get killed as appeasement, many others expressed considerable discomfort with the idea of just abandoning members of the People, especially when it sounded like at least some of the warriors down there had thought they were only defending themselves.

Actually, as they talked, a suspicion began to grow that there was a snake among the People who had probably engineered the incident while still keeping it not the sort of blatant attack that would have the People absolutely wash their hands of the entire incident. There were some who were counseling against just cutting the perpetrators loose as it might end with the People losing any chance of figuring out what exactly had happened. Also, given reports of how efficiently the warriors had taken out the defenders of the village with their iron weapons there was a definite degree of unease over what might happen if the Highlanders didn't wipe them out.

Given this mess of hot gygo, the king had to make a decision immediately. What to do?

What to do?
[] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)
[] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
[] Reinforce position (Conquer new province, war with Highlanders)
[] Massively reinforce position (-5 Military, founds new March, war with Highlanders)

It's... It's so beautifull.~<3 ... I... I can see the conflict. The glorious, delicious conflict.
 
Mostly practical materials, basically your engineering materials list.



Yes, I will be reworking a number of things.



I honestly have no idea how that happened. Brain fart.

Also, this appears to be the decision.

[X][Temple] Sacred Forest
[X][Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X][Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X][Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)

Hmmmm... yeah, whatever your plans were for next turn, chuck them out. You guys have a preternatural knack for picking the worst administrative decisions.
Since we've been discussing the clan vote a lot , in wondering if we also made bad decision s on the Law and Temple voted?
 
It most certainly means we're evil in this case. We're doing evil not because it's the least evil, but because it's the easiest and most beneficial to us. That is evil through and through. There is no good justification for us to go to war, bar the protection of violent, evil assholes.
To protect soldiers who mistakenly acted on false pretenses? For warriors obeying what they thought were lawful orders from their warchiefs?

These men, if we give them up are going to be brutally executed, their bodies desecrated and paraded around as an example. What. Is. Just. About. That?

So instead of doing a minor wrong of allowing those decent warriors to die along with the many absolute asshole warriors, you say we should instead do a far greater wrong and protect those same asshole warriors? Fuck that.
So you admit it's not just, it's simply the least injust act. That doesn't fucking make it good.

And yeah- I'm entirely up for waging war to protect these people rather than letting foreigners murder and brutalize them as a form of placation. My People- right or wrong, if right to keep right, if wrong to make right. Because that's what our people would want- we stand together, we hang together- pretty much every single one of our traits support that.
 
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