UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
When it arrives, it arrives.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
"Worked" isn't binary. Good environments for preservation are important too.
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Keep in mind the sheer quantity of metal needed for a boat of any size and relative scarcity.
We have at least a good source of high-quality wood, experience with boats and exceedingly good tools to work it.
Honestly, if we wanted to, we could probably invade the Metal Workers right now by sending Charioteers from Westwall and supply them via boats while a second force sails around and attacks from the west or tries to land directly close to their main settlement.
That would take care of a budding rival and get us the metal supplies of the metal workers for ourselves. Even better, it's out of reach of the Thunder Horse and we have easy access via ships.
Of course, it comes with the opportunity cost of not getting territory in the lowlands built up for the eventual clash with the Thunder Horse.
Very small amounts if you limit it to producing a lot of dhows like we're currently using, no metal is used in the final product, only in the construction process.
And the minor problem of being too far to actually hold onto it.
- Location
- Illinois
To be fair, we're only a step away from better boats. If they become good enough, we'd probably be able to hold the territory.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Unfortunately that's now 5-7 updates away.
Right, it's actually better to not use iron in an structural parts of a wooden boat. Iron corrodes and damages the wood around it.
That's a decent idea. There's no reason for all territory to be contiguous by land as long as we have good seafaring skills.
But a buffer territory in the lowlands might be a good idea.
- Location
- Illinois
Well, if we get lucky, one of our province actions might go towards it.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
So no, because we just got committed to a state where we pretty much need the exact same province actions for the next seven turns just to stay afloat.
I'm no expert in shipbuilding, so I'll take you word for it. I assumed the metal is used for nails and the like.
I assumed the ships we had could make the trip fairly quickly if they start from Westwall, which is already in conventional harassment range.
But we apparently lack actions anyway.
- Location
- Austria
But somehow Balanced is more 'efficient', despite Megaproject support freeing it all up and making us able to finish Temple in ~2 turns instead of 6-7.
I seriously have no idea why people love Balanced. Policies are specifically there to make us able to direct chiefs in one direction, Balanced is inferior unless we have nothing better to do - and we always have something better to do.
Like, with proper switches, we could either go on another Wonder spree (temple->library-ptts), go for a very quick temple->defensive, go temple->progress, go temple->restoration while we do the roads...Balanced just means that everybody does whatever they want instead of a concentrated effort.
Balanced is dealing with all the problems, unless you wanted a specific pet project.
Currently we have a very large number of small problems rather than a small number of big problems.
Generally the big benefit of iron is that with iron tools being CHEAP but horrible with sea water, you can experiment with advanced wood jointing techniques. By skipping bronze we're pretty much forced to skip using nails in ships for a while, but iron tools allows for more precise wood shapes being made standard that would be expensive to figure out in timber and labor otherwise.
Currently we have a very large number of small problems rather than a small number of big problems.
Easy mistake to make. Bronze is actually usable for ship nails, but iron is not, unless you want the nail to fall apart after a few years.
Generally the big benefit of iron is that with iron tools being CHEAP but horrible with sea water, you can experiment with advanced wood jointing techniques. By skipping bronze we're pretty much forced to skip using nails in ships for a while, but iron tools allows for more precise wood shapes being made standard that would be expensive to figure out in timber and labor otherwise.
Westwall is in harassment range but it's not in administration range. If we take it, it'd become a Colony, which isn't very well defended(and also their rivers need cleaning up, their forestry needs repair, etc), even with a ship tech advance, at least until Westwall eventually eats the whole coast.
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- Location
- Austria
But we do have a big problem: we need at least two megaprojects in quick succession to make sure we are fine on the Mysticism front (temple and library, maaybe PttS). That's, like, a textbook use-case for Megaproject Support policy, you just can't get more 'big problem' without an invasion forcing us to pick Offensive.
Speaking of the megaprojects, any chance that they will start us on mathematics? Ancient astronomy drove a lot of it I think, but so did larger construction.
Also another argument for Sacred Forest: The proximity to large amounts of wooden waste may lead to paper being developed. OTOH, the climate there is probably a bit moister which is bad for preservation.
Basing it near where we keep most of the cattle herds is likely to give us vellum, but those are AFAIK near every population center.
Also another argument for Sacred Forest: The proximity to large amounts of wooden waste may lead to paper being developed. OTOH, the climate there is probably a bit moister which is bad for preservation.
Basing it near where we keep most of the cattle herds is likely to give us vellum, but those are AFAIK near every population center.
- Location
- Illinois
As far as I know, the only one was the one I made about when they first invaded us, and got hit when we went berserk.
Actually the problem is doing the megaprojects without spending too much or too little Economy. Also that Balanced can perform Megaproject support actions, if there are no other crisis(there are, the provinces will be building Holy Sites and studying stars to back us up on the Mysticism bleed, as well as performing Law buffed Expand Economy to maintain the City status on Balanced, which they won't on any other)
...That's kind of an odd point. Iron nails WERE often used for ship building during the Iron Age.
They are MUCH better with freshwater boats, because a 'patina' will form around iron in freshwater that inhibits further rust whilst in saltwater it will just rust iron away completely, and rusting nails WILL damage surrounding wooden planks as well just as you say. But iron nails are still convenient enough they were often used in large ship construction- viking longships, as an example, were wooden planks riveted together with wrought iron rivets. The fact you were using iron just meant that you had to replace planks and nails or rivets more often, but even if you were using bronze nails you'd still need to replace planks and do maintenance periodically because there's all kinds of other crap like barnacles that will eat into them.
I can pretty much guarantee our people will use iron in shipbuilding soonish- it's a major improvement, even with the increased maintenance problems.
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Was referring mainly to seagoing vessels, though upping the replacement cycle is something that should have already occurred to me.
Off to bed then!
- Location
- Austria
If we construct the Temple fast enough, we won't need provinces to shore up Mysticism bleed.
And Balanced does not benefit from The Law, IIRC? And definitely does not give the Symphony benefit, which is all about doing a single thing together. So it is inferior because of that too.
It does not benefit from Symphony, it does not, IIRC, benefit from Law, it does not allow us to focus...it is good when we are not focused on something - I was a proponent of it that vote, for example - but right now it is just worse than Megaproject support, or, if you are so intent on Economy support, Expansion into Defensive.
- Location
- Source of confusion itself.
Wait. ...
Is DemonGhost supposed to be me?
Balanced specifically benefits from the Law. It buffs Expand Economy, which is kind of the main reason we're STILL in True City mode FYI. Ending Balanced means we exit True City next turn.
Symphony can engage if the provinces do the same action as we do. It can happen, though not as often as with a focused Policy for obvious reasons, our Provinces will seek optimal actions when nothing more important is going on. They are intelligent players. Currently, it's important that the provinces be capable of taking War Missions in case someone decides to take a poke at us, that they be capable of Studying Stars for the Wisdom and streak bonus, that they be capable of working on fortifications(though AN said there's a revamp in the works for those) and that they be capable of adjusting for our Mysticism status.
The Synergy All In Rush has it's benefits, but this rush has left us with gaping holes in our setup that have become evident recently. We really need to let the issues equalize out first.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Also on the 'smart provinces' front, remember they lost us the crisis with double survey.
Focused is better than balanced most of the time IMO. I'd rather have them do 3x megaproject while we do the fiddly shit to maintain our civ
Focused is better than balanced most of the time IMO. I'd rather have them do 3x megaproject while we do the fiddly shit to maintain our civ
- Location
- Austria
Yep, provinces are doing their own things and what *they* consider smart, not something that *is* smart.
There is a reason our Heroic Admins did not go for Balanced and just switched policies to whatever was more appropriate.