The GM specifically said the only way we could have won the crisis was by successfully suppressing the Young Stallions at every turn. there is nothing the provinces could have done to save us one way or another.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
The GM specifically said the only way we could have won the crisis was by successfully suppressing the Young Stallions at every turn. there is nothing the provinces could have done to save us one way or another.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Exactly!
Balanced is nice in a general use sort of way when we aren't doing anything terribly important, but I think if we are going to be building a succession of megaprojects we are going to absolutely have to let our provinces do the heavy lifting.
This also applies when we start building up infrastructure. We can literally just allow the provinces to take care of it themselves while we manage everything overall.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
At that point we didn't HAVE policies, so setting a policy wasn't a thing we could have done.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
We don't really need territory at the moment. We need to build up our infrastructure and finish those megaprojects first. For that matter, too much expansion could drop our city out from under us.
- Location
- United States
But our poor Mysticism.
I would like to mention that we are currently on an even number of provinces, and thus we get an extra action once we get a single additional province.
It's not a top priority, but I'm thinking making the NE march and then integrating the stallions is something we should aim to do in the medium-near future. Alternatively diploannex/take over the Southern Hill People.
The Kick+RO plan has a nice side benefit of a 19% chance of getting an extra +2 Stability from GG, almost certainly putting us at 2 or 3 end stability while also getting the kick's benefit.
It's not a top priority, but I'm thinking making the NE march and then integrating the stallions is something we should aim to do in the medium-near future. Alternatively diploannex/take over the Southern Hill People.
We're still at 0 Stability. That means we have basically no buffer for disasters. Either Grand Sacrifice or Kick+Restore Order if we really want the megaproject done ASAP.
The Kick+RO plan has a nice side benefit of a 19% chance of getting an extra +2 Stability from GG, almost certainly putting us at 2 or 3 end stability while also getting the kick's benefit.
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- Location
- Australia
Main Wall gives 1 Mysticism thanks to Stone Age Canal.But our poor Mysticism.
Right, stability is an urgent priority. How annoying. We got a TODO list a mile long.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We're going to be biting that conflict bullet eventually, whether or not we take any land, in my understanding. In three generations, so five to six updates from now I fully expect that the Thunder Horse will have forgotten their agreement to leave us alone. With the reaming coming the HK's way we probably won't have their support, or the deterrence of their presence. At that point we will be dealing with raids that increase in intensity, quickly, until we have a full thrust from the TH at us. We should be able to turn it and blunt the damage but it is still gonna suck.
Avoiding conflict is impossible, like as not. And I hate that. I'd much rather the dickheads to the east leave us alone and the dickheads to the west went away.
I also hate grabbing land through conquest. It's a waste because it is self reinforcing, because the traits fostering continued conquest are incredibly easy to develop, and because going conqueror is very terrifying to other civs and will incite some of them to attack you out of fear setting up a cycle like what we saw in the Lowlands. Like has been discussed over-extension through conquest is what killed the Romans eventually. Dealing with the attendant problems is a nightmare as can also be seen with the Thunder Horse. It is far more efficient to absorb land like we have been up to this point through new settlements, absorbing surrounding smaller tribes with diploannexing, and like the Stalllions did by beating the enemy so soundly in a defensive war that they have to back up and give us room or swear fealty to us. Martial traits gained from a defensive war are less likely to encourage conquest, they still can but more often you get traits like we just did in the last few turns. I'm so happy none of our Lord's Loyalty, Quality of it's Own, Honor of Elites, are pushing for conquest directly because that way lies getting our heads stuck in a meatgrinder somewhere, not even necessarily the Lowlands.
If we can we should send trade to the Thunder Horse and the HK so that we can read the temperature and continue to encourage them not to attack us. Hopefully that gives us more time.
I'm kinda on board with this. In the Forest + Mega case the Forest should be in Redhill, it is a great defensive bonus we need there and might provide hidden bonuses to our charcoal supply since it is so close. The Wall + Mega just makes sense. We'll see where our stability is.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
I'm not comfortable using appeasement tactics, the longer we wait the stronger our enemy becomes, there are already hints of them gaining Bronze and starting to distribute through their warriors, and if they beat the Highland Kingdom enough to take more of the Lowlands they could end up getting more a much more distinct numbers advantage, also they are fully annexing the Thunder Speakers and bringing further unity to their empire.
If the Highland Kingdom asks for help the best choice is to help, it is to strike earlier before the Thunder Horse Empire becomes too strong and large.
Appeasing Hitler didn't work overly well either.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Key difference is that Bungie is asking for friends don't hit friends, while you seem to have taken it to mean offer up sacrifices.
The former is our whole schtick, the latter causes the thread to unanimously vote to kick the bastard's teeth in so hard their grandchildren have deformed teeth.
Incidentally, I feel a lot better about our geopolitical situation right now, just a little annoyed that we're going to be stuck putting out brushfires for the next seven or so turns because every action veekie thinks our provinces will take this turn basically have to be taken for the entire rest of the megaproject.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
*raises finger*
*considers*
*lowers finger*
huh, we should probably do that when we have free actions again.
Prestige 13 really does let us do cool stuff.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Thunder Horse Empire is definitely not our friends, they will raid us eventually and will try to conquer us, better to face them if we can whilst they are weaker, I say.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
huhYeahGoodPoint: "Huh Yeah, Good point"
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah my thinking was not appeasement.
My thinking was definitely this. Not sure if it counts as a form of real politik but if we can encourage them to go fight over there then we have one less thing to majorly worry about and this game is a lot of reducing the things we have to majorly worry about so we can focus on the really bad things.
It's politics. "Friends" doesn't actually mean friends.
They were reassured by us coming and trading with us. If we hadn't done it now the fighting would have possibly migrated up to us. I figure they were actually kinda worried we'd pull something to the effect of backstabbing them. When they get down to fighting the HK in the next turn or so they'll be busy for some time. I figure from then the situation is basically binary, either the HK asked us for help during the fighting (which is not likely to happen when you read the update and note the bit about their strategy) and we help them or they do not and the two fighters beat the everloving snot out of each other. In the first case of we helped, sending an emissary to the Thunder Horse to encourage them not to do this again or something to that effect is useful.
In the case where we did not and both fighters are bloody and recovering (I figure the Thunder Horse will have pushed west a good bit, but will not have conquered the entirety of the Lowlands) I say sending diplomats to both is a good way to continue encouraging them to leave us be. In the background of either of these we can almost certainly expand east without anyone really objecting until quite a while after we did it.
E: If at any point during our diplomatic overtures the Thunder Horse ask for anything resembling tribute I say fuck em. They can come over here and we'll beat their teeth in before we pay the Dane.
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- Location
- Australia
It is not the way of the People to attack those who have not attacked us. To do so for no other reason than that we think they'll attack us would be a grievous miscarriage of Justice. It would be like pardoning a murderer because their victim startled him. It would without doubt be the People who would be in the wrong if we launched a preemptive war.
You have to remember that while it's not easy or profitable to be the good guy in the short term, it's worth it in the end. Look at the wonders we have built without war to distract us, look at the values we gained over our lifespan. We are older than all extant civilisations and without a single civil war to our name. Being the good guys takes work. It means not throwing away all our values at the first hint of danger.
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- Location
- Mists of Albion
I'm just saying, if the Highlanders ask us to attack the Thunder Horse, we should do it, because if we don't....
Well, There's a reason why the expression "good guys finish last" is around
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Demonstrably false; see list of megaprojects and technologies.
Though in all seriousness, we should be ready to help the HK if asked. We don't want someone else getting hegemony over that region unless that someone is us.
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And then betray our reputation as a neutral party? The CA trait might not even let us do it, since we don't have casus belli. All we can do is that when we are attacked, we are fortified to hell and back.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
And yet if we let The Highlanders get wrecked and the Thunder Horse get control of more of the Lowlands, they will come for us.
They are Not!Persia.
They are the descendants of a Horde of Nomadic Warrior conquerors, they have dominated several different Kingdoms and have vassalised and absorbed many of those they have fought.
They are in the process of distributing Bronze and can already match our numbers even before fully eating the Thunder Speakers.
If we don't jump on them if the Highlanders ask us to, we will become vassals, and eventually we will be annexed outright.
If the Highlanders ask is to fight, we must fight, it's outright suicide if we don't.
This is how we get into war. Fear of an enemy attacking cause one more likely to go to war preemptively.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
I'm just stating the facts mate.
We need to maintain the status quo in the lowlands, we cannot let either the Highlanders or Thunder Horse Empire become dominant, otherwise we will get screwed eventually.
And it's simple fact that if the Thunder Horse win then they are more likely to attack much sooner than the Highlanders, who share several distinct pieces of culture with us and have even married into our noble families. Compared to the Thunder Horse Empire who just want us out the way so they can conquer more land