Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by 2xMachina on May 20, 2017 at 6:12 PM, finished with 37926 posts and 82 votes.
Click to expand...
 
tenchifew said:
Not in this situation.
I do not want our people to see themselves as victims who can only endure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
victims who rebuild rather than further destruction

Edit: Also, going away for ~3 hours so gl arguing hope that a full offense or full defense plan succeeds rather than a weird half-assed number-gaming plan.

Wanna note here that our art is @ 5 and our diplo is still overflowing. As long as we don't burn the diplo down w/o replacing it (i.e. instead of flat out doing a March, do a Trading Post before creating a new March to guarantee continued diplo, which is needed for all listed Subordinate interactions other than supply) we'll get Art up to overflowing, too. At which point we'll have 2 stats @ max. So we might enter a GA, and if we don't then all we need to do is raise mysticism to max instead.
 
Last edited:
Right now we're risking everything on a dice roll with moderate martial and an average war leader. And even if it goes well, we end up at -2 stability 90% of the time, though we do have a nice and pretty maximum stability of 3.

New King, Restore Order, and Weapons will virtually guarantee we kill the nomads, rescue our people, and return with glory. 95% probability we'll be at non-negative Stability, and we have the Art available to do Proclaim Glory to restore our lost Legitimacy.

Umi-san said:
iron is a metal like copper, especially since it's not a star metal if it comes from the ground
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Academia Nut said:
Perhaps... perhaps a star had fallen here in the past and left a wound in the earth? Maybe metal, being different from other materials, was all derived from the heavens, and the poisons were merely whatever curses were locked away in such disturbance of the celestial order being unleashed? Maybe... maybe not. Hard to tell, but it would probably be worth further study in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is what our people currently believe.
 
tenchifew said:
And if they evade battle there won't be any weapons to pick up, now will there?

And nomads have loot and prisoners with them.
They literaally caanot go fast.

And nomads can return as soon as next turn or a turn after.
As they did this time already.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They can skirmish. Fight a retreating battle. Minimum fighting while running.
Even an armchair general like me can successfully lead the nomads to escape with 50% of the loot, esp with 2 leaders.
Worse come to worse, split into 2. Good luck chasing them all down.

If they drop half the loot for you to pick up, you're as slow as them.

Next turn, we're ready.
Tools (+Econ) means we have a Huge army next turn.
What matters is now.
 
2xMachina said:
They can skirmish. Fight a retreating battle. Minimum fighting while running.
Even an armchair general like me can successfully lead the nomads to escape with 50% of the loot, esp with 2 leaders.
Worse come to worse, split into 2. Good luck chasing them all down.

If they drop half the loot for you to pick up, you're as slow as them.

Next turn, we're ready.
Tools (+Econ) means we have a Huge army next turn.
What matters is now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If they split up lose half the loot and return to the steppes with an army 1/6th the size we still have gored them for a long time.
 
tenchifew said:
And if they evade battle there won't be any weapons to pick up, now will there?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Unless they kill some of The People's troops. They literally need two iron weapons to claim holy mandate here... did you miss the thousands dead on each side scale of that last battle? A single hit and loot and run. That is a single scout group disposed of.
tenchifew said:
And nomads have loot and prisoners with them.
They literaally caanot go fast.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes they can... they can ditch loot or lesser women. They can toss art or random items to lighten the load. They can do that in combat. They aren't idiots.

Also, I've already said this, but, the more martial score the greater the logistics tail.
tenchifew said:
And nomads can return as soon as next turn or a turn after.
As they did this time already.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Irrelevant. There are endless nomads. Complete extermination of every tribe we knows of is meaningless. There will always be more nomads. They are Steppe Herpes.

Completely random nomads could move in at anytime. The thing saving The People from them for a bit is all the locals a basically dead. Its like draining a stoppered bathtub when the faucet is on. Bail all you want you can't get rid of them all.
 
Just to remind everyone:
Academia Nut said:
non-existant->awful->poor->mediocre->average->above average->good->exceptional->heroic
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As to our new king:
Academia Nut said:
Martial would be at least good, and the current king is absolutely average for everything. As for the war, had you not been facing strategic geniuses the nomads would be gone for a generation or two, and as it is have probably been locally depleted to the point that they won't bother you anyway... but then again heroic leaders.

Admin would be mediocre at worst, and would have little to no effect on the roll.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Getting halfway to heroic is a good start to not losing our entire army out on the steppes. Getting Iron Weapons is another strong contributor.
Both at once means that we'll almost assuredly be able to rescue our people and end up with positive stability the vast majority of the time.

The currently leading plan leaves us at -2 stability and likely has the majority of our army dying in the steppes.
 
Golden Eyed King said:
If they split up lose half the loot and return to the steppes with an army 1/6th the size we still have gored them for a long time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Give up half the loot, doesn't mean they will lose the 2nd army. The loot is on the ground for you to pick up.
Now, you're loaded down.
You already have difficulty to keep up.

If they go in separate directions?
You can only chase 1, with a 2nd army, who can harrass your back, helping the 1st escape.

Net: 1/3 army (elites lead by 2 heroes) bring back 50% of the loot.
Easily planned by an armchair general.
If I'm heroic martial, I can probably do better. Much better.
 
Umi-san said:
victims who rebuild rather than further destruction

Edit: Also, going away for ~3 hours so gl arguing hope that a full offense or full defense plan succeeds rather than a weird half-assed number-gaming plan.

Wanna note here that our art is @ 5 and our diplo is still overflowing. As long as we don't burn the diplo down w/o replacing it (i.e. instead of flat out doing a March, do a Trading Post before creating a new March to guarantee continued diplo, which is needed for all listed Subordinate interactions other than supply) we'll get Art up to overflowing, too. At which point we'll have 2 stats @ max. So we might enter a GA, and if we don't then all we need to do is raise mysticism to max instead.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, rebuilding so the next wave of nomads can have new loot to steal.

This is about what we think about our people.
Are we ready to let them be taken...

Or will we do everything we can to bring them back.
 
2xMachina said:
Give up half the loot, doesn't mean they will lose the 2nd army. The loot is on the ground for you to pick up.
Now, you're loaded down.
You already have difficulty to keep up.

If they go in separate directions?
You can only chase 1, with a 2nd army, who can harrass your back, helping the 1st escape.

Net: 1/3 army (elites lead by 2 heroes) bring back 50% of the loot.
Easily planned by an armchair general.
If I'm heroic martial, I can probably do better. Much better.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And I would be happy with that.

As long as we save our people the nomads can piss off.
 
notgreat said:
Just to remind everyone:

As to our new king:

Getting halfway to heroic is a good start to not losing our entire army out on the steppes. Getting Iron Weapons is another strong contributor.
Both at once means that we'll almost assuredly be able to rescue our people and end up with positive stability the vast majority of the time.

The currently leading plan leaves us at -2 stability and likely has the majority of our army dying in the steppes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So, lets change. Vote for defensive.

Offensive just got us intro trouble this turn, leaving gaps for them to slip through and strike.
Now, we want to send more troops, further away, to chase nomads into the steppe.
 
[X] Tools (+8 Econ, +2 Martial, ???)

Don't have an opinion on anything else, but industriousness over martial valour was always one of the centerpoints of our civilization. I wouldn't cast it aside for the sake of vengance.
 
2xMachina said:
Give up half the loot, doesn't mean they will lose the 2nd army. The loot is on the ground for you to pick up.
Now, you're loaded down.
You already have difficulty to keep up.

If they go in separate directions?
You can only chase 1, with a 2nd army, who can harrass your back, helping the 1st escape.

Net: 1/3 army (elites lead by 2 heroes) bring back 50% of the loot.
Easily planned by an armchair general.
If I'm heroic martial, I can probably do better. Much better.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I see I cannot convince you, nor can I refute your points

I have made my position clear so I will bow out here and hope for a quick and bloody resolution. (Aka total nomad genocide.)
 
notgreat said:
This means you're afraid of hitting -4 stability. Which is caring about the stats.
Which is literally exactly what I was saying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*blink*
Your actually arguing to ignore the game mechanics completely when making decisions?
*blink*

I'm 'afraid' of the quest not being what it is and degenerating into a quest where offensive raids are necessary like basically every other Civ. As a certain salamander has mentioned... they are all @^%&@. You realise your actually arguing to make the Quests non%$&@$% people into $%&# for short term gain.
Sivantic said:
False
They have Martial 6 right now
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
For a march that is depleted. The whole point is to be a buffer state.
 
Last edited:
tenchifew said:
Are we ready to let them be taken...

Or will we do everything we can to bring them back.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*dramatic movie narrator voice*
Will we hold on to what we have...

or throw it away to get back what we lost.

Will Billy Jean repair his family's farm...

Or get revenge on the man who burned it?


The choice is entirely dependent on culture. As americans (?) we're predisposed toward active policies that lead to retribution. But sometimes the best choice is ignoring the most recent loss to forestall future ones.
 
2xMachina said:
So, lets change. Vote for defensive.

Offensive just got us intro trouble this turn, leaving gaps for them to slip through and strike.
Now, we want to send more troops, further away, to chase nomads into the steppe.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Can't trying to go defensive while keeping our king will send us to -4 stability unless restoration of order happens first and gives stability. Getting the martial king would allow us to be defensive but if you are getting that king already why not go offensive?
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top