Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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- Original
I never said that fishing wouldn't create black soil, merely pointed out we would also gain the benefit from pastures. And taking materials to a settlement is a lot different than taking them to the edge of the blight and would require a significantly larger number of animals to cover a significantly wider area. Even if we can't get right up to the area the transportation bonus would be huge. So no, this isn't a good reason to avoid pastures over fishing.
This however is. Boats should be able to move far larger amounts of cargo, and even if we can't get them all the way up to the edge of the blight, we can cut down on the travel distance dramatically. So yeah, I guess this is enough to convince me.
[X] Send experts
[X] [Secondary] Black Soil
[X] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Druidism or Native American Animism a-go-go. Our Crow myth is remarkably similar to some Native American myths from the Northwest. *looks over at @Academia Nut *
On a different note, can we get the map linked on our stats page?
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Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
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[X] [Secondary] Black Soil
[X] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
I wonder if we've discovered that singing to plants has a positive affect on them yet....
[X] [Secondary] Black Soil
[X] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
I wonder if we've discovered that singing to plants has a positive affect on them yet....
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Good math! I'd argue that the snails are a solid 1, though. While the WC increased their desire last turn, the pressure from the DP might decrease that demand in the future. Personally, I lean toward the New Settlement lacking an economic footprint, but it's better to be safe than sorry. And it leaves us room to do it together w/ an expanded spirit place, and maybe the annual festival if we hold it off long enough.
Druidism or Kami. Basically the same name though.
*shrug* Tbh, I figured that building the wall would require a lot of cows considering that we'd be carrying really heavy stones rather than less-dense manure and char. So the increased number of cows required would be balanced by the lighter load. But I didn't calculate in the well-developed trail between our different villages, which would mean we could use wagons.
Boats are good, yeah. Going this route will likely mean that we start tying the boats to cattle on the shore in order to pull the boat against the current, too. It likely won't work on the tributary area, but it will allow easier access along both of the main rivers (assuming people build the boats on the inland river, or find a way to carry them from the coastal river).
Edit: Idr what my vote was, so just in case
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[X] [Secondary] Black Soil
[X] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
@Academia Nut Any chance that we can get you to write devotional poetry if we synergize our religion hard?
For inspiration: Sumerian Poems, Chant of Light from Dragon Age. I have more.
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[X] Send experts
[X] [Secondary] Black Soil
[X] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
As much as I might want that new settlement built, I don't think we can afford it right now.
[X] [Secondary] Black Soil
[X] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
As much as I might want that new settlement built, I don't think we can afford it right now.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
I'll guarantee that doesn't do anything on this scale, and we likely don't have magical Planty Singing Powers like the Aiel.
- Location
- Europe
How can a new settlement not cost anything? It's a pretty big undertaking to move a bunch of people and build houses, graineries, meeting halls etc. for them, not to mention setting up our intricate farming and forestry system. There has to be significant period of time where they won't be able to provide for themselves and it's a pretty big number of people. You'd also need another "set" of chiefs, advisors, warriors etc. to administer and protect the new settlement, which is being built on land that is "not particularly good for farming." I'm not saying we shouldn't construct it in the future but not right now with an Econ of 3 and a current Mega-Project under way.
- Location
- Hell
Maybe not as such, but they probably do sing while working to pass the time.
- Location
- Austria
Our last trait, Pioneering, gives bonus to establishing new settlements even without stability loss, and new one will be in the 'middle' of controlled territory and will ease logistical burden of travel, thus hopefully decreasing economical cost of this megaproject.
- Location
- Europe
Here's the tally that somebody asked for:
Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 147 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
[] Send experts
No. of Votes: 34
[] Send expedition
No. of Votes: 2
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Secondary
[] [Secondary] Black Soil
No. of Votes: 34
[] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
No. of Votes: 19
[] [Secondary] New Settlement
No. of Votes: 14
[] [Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
No. of Votes: 5
Total No. of Voters: 36
Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 147 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
[] Send experts
No. of Votes: 34
[] Send expedition
No. of Votes: 2
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Secondary
[] [Secondary] Black Soil
No. of Votes: 34
[] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
No. of Votes: 19
[] [Secondary] New Settlement
No. of Votes: 14
[] [Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
No. of Votes: 5
Total No. of Voters: 36
- Location
- Hell
I still wouldn't say that it completely cuts its cost. More like bringing it down from a 2 to a 1.
- Location
- Austria
Which, combined with decreased logistical weight of running all over the hills can make a difference.
I wonder whether QM will consider chiming in on how cheaper establishing new settlements is with the trait.
@Academia Nut , are we allowed to know specifics of new settlement costs, and if yes, could you please tell us?
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Economic footprint = initial cost balanced out with return. We have the settler buff which makes setting up new settlements fast and easy. I don't see why the "set" of chiefs advisors, etc. is worth mentioning: they're people, but there are presumably extra hands spread among the villages, and the pools for the warriors and chiefs are unlikely to be contributing much at this point in time, especially if you assume that the chief candidates have special skills which they've trained for but are not using. The soil isn't good for farming atm, but each turn spans a number of years, and while it is not "good for farming" now, a decade of improvement will change that dramatically, and it will provide more food regardless, as well as ease access to that weird spot above the middle river. It will also eventually provide more land on which we can dig pits to make the char, and easier access to forest which we can harvest the wood from without damaging the land. Or even allow us to drag the blighted trees to the pits so we can burn them and reuse them.
Likewise, the easier access to more forest would counterbalance the material cost required to set up the trees and etc., employing builders and masons whose skills are not useful in our ecological restoration project.
Note that I voted for fishing, in case you did not already.
Which is balanced by the return, ideally. So that the Black Soil fights the cost of the Blight-fight.
And that would be incredibly valuable over a 2-4 turn period, and it'll continue to pay dividends afterwards.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
It's more like the numbers are placeholders for what the assumed real-world changes would result in. So we're not really speculating about the actual mechanics behind the story, but rather a hypothetical mechanical system which allows us to weigh different speculations in a simplified way.
- Location
- Hell
You misunderstand. I meant the cost of the new settlement. The trait would bring the total cost of it from a 2 to a 1. When we are at Econ 3 and have a major project siphoning from it each turn, I would rather not risk it going lower.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Pretty much this.
There is almost no way it doesn't cost us anything. Even logically it doesn't make sense for a settlement to be free unless it occurs organically. It takes people away from existing settlements where they were farming, fishing, w/e, and starts them setting up buildings, transporting their households and setting up local farms to feed themselves. In the long run, I'm sure it helps our economy, but we can't afford the initial investment and the temporary liability.
Sure, Pioneering Spirit helps decrease that liability cost, likely from 2 to 1, using @Versharl 's system, but the cost is there. We will have to see what our Econ stat looks like after this turn to judge. If it has increased or stayed static, we can likely afford a new settlement next turn.
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[X] Send experts
[X] [Secondary] Black Soil
[X] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
[X] [Secondary] Black Soil
[X] [Secondary] Expand Fishing
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Of course we don't have magical singing yet, our spiritual ability is way below desired levels.
Honestly, how Crow's favoured people could be so left behind by the Spirit Talkers is a mystery to me. They must have the support of a nebulous spirit of some kind, though I have no idea which. That's the only way I see they could have progressed in the mystic arts so quickly.
- Location
- Europe
We need estimates in order to conduct long-term planning, which the Mega-Project requires. Sure, there's a lot of uncertainty but it's better than simply picking actions that we like the sound of and hoping for the best. I doubt the results will be pretty if we run out of Econ in the middle of the project. If you have a better way to do things, I'd love to hear them.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
See my post above, but I don't think we can afford to wait out for the ROI. The initial investment might cause enough instability to make the return moot.