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Paths of Civilization

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DocMatoi said:
Hopefully we'll have evolved DS even further by then. Heh. He comes to us, declaring war, and Protective Justice makes us pincushion him before he can get home to say "go fight those guys"
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The more I look at it the more I don't think the ETH themselves are a threat to us directly. The Logistics tech just isn't there...

It took years for our traders to go there and come back.

So I think the threat axis of the ETH will be strongly expressed in their vassal states in the lowlands.

veekie said:
Blobbing started, the swamp guys unblobbed, and everything is inhaling for the next round of Lowland Clusterfuck.
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Ohhhhh yeaaaah. War is definitely taking a Big Breath for his Thing. The strange part is that I am worried it's not gonna come from the East. But the North... The March has not had a War Mission for 5-6 turns. This seems...odd. I feel a Waaagh! in my bones. When I'm not being paranoid about the South of course.

Another thing, you still haven't answered my question. :p
Where are you getting your basis for the assumption that when Legitimacy drops it will drop Stability with it?

You make it here and I am curious:
veekie said:
Now, if we can just avoid losing these stats over the mid-turn we're set.
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This image is also hilarious:
veekie said:
A long, long forgotten file.
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BungieONI said:
Another thing, you still haven't answered my question. :p
Where are you getting your basis for the assumption that when Legitimacy drops it will drop Stability with it?
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Legitimacy is the cap for Stability. Losing Legitimacy lowers the cap. Stats above the cap are lost or converted depending on the circumstances, but regardless, we're not going to be keeping that third point of Stability if it drops.

Meanwhile War is licking his lips and sharpening his axe after giving Pestilence a consoling pat considering the Ymaryn ruined his most recent stunt again. By accident..
 
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veekie said:
A long, long forgotten file.
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I am sure our archaeologists will weep tears of joy after finding basically zero evidence in our settlements. The only other thing going for them is our soils, particularly the fact that it's full of pottery shards and rich black soil.

Though, if we managed continuity long enough, the archaeologists might just use our libraries and our ginormous warehouse.
 
veekie said:
Legitimacy is the cap for Stability. Losing Legitimacy lowers the cap. Stats above the cap are lost or converted depending on the circumstances, but regardless, we're not going to be keeping that third point of Stability if it drops.

Meanwhile War is licking his lips and sharpening his axe after giving Pestilence a consoling pat considering the Ymaryn ruined his most recent stunt again. By accident..
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Okay that is reasonable logic. Thanks for answering. Only thing I can dispute is when exactly the Stability would "burn off" as it were. Not important right now though.

As to the Four Brothers I actually imagine them ribbing the shit out of Pestilence for cholera absolutely failing. Famine ribbing the hardest because we snubbed him a long fucking time ago. I assume he gets his jollies fucking with the ETH and the DP now.

I'm interested in what direction War will decide to come from. Will it be the East? Beyond the Lowlands in the South? From the North? Or even from the Quiet West?

Uncertain, and given current information we must assume the East and or the North.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 14, 2017 at 9:49 AM, finished with 33339 posts and 116 votes.
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Kiba said:
I wouldn't say we're communists, but I would say that we are more functional and communistic than the Soviet ever was.
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That's because we've had opportunity to grow the size and complexity of the administration gradually; but until some innovation like computers, central planning is kinda meh when scaled because of the lag and other problems which are not the case on the smaller scale.
Granted, full capitalism is equally bad because long-term planning is not a thing (global warming or funding for middle schools or the like), but Ymaryn are really not in any danger from this direction.
 
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
 
Kiba said:
I am sure our archaeologists will weep tears of joy after finding basically zero evidence in our settlements. The only other thing going for them is our soils, particularly the fact that it's full of pottery shards and rich black soil.

Though, if we managed continuity long enough, the archaeologists might just use our libraries and our ginormous warehouse.
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At this point I would not be too surprised if our oldest records had started forming strata.

But the big problem archeologically of relying on written records is that text evidence is considered lower quality than material evidence, since it's extremely vulnerable to revisionism over time, and often tells very little outside the interests of the clerks. Most of our records are tallies, numbers, numbers and more numbers, with the symbols they are linked to mutating in meaning over time.

Great for a civ stat sheet, but terrible for trying to build a picture of early Ymaryn life.
 
veekie said:
We're relaxed about having children out of wedlock, especially for the youths, but we do control how many children people are allowed each year to maintain a safe food reserve.
Adultery then, is more about the betrayal of the marriage bond more than putting legitimacy into question.
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The thing is that Biblically the reason gays were bad is that a gay only male inherits and that leads to your families lands being up for grabs. Its considered on hell of a betrayal to lose everything your family has worked for for generations... simply because you can't do your job as an heir and breed.

The People have all property as communal, at least for land and the big things, so land inheritance is a matter of competence rather than you having offspring. Lazy kids are the thing everyone hates... laziness is how you fail your family.

Male parentage isn't really trackable so that metric is useless. As long as one of the females in a pairing produces offspring that marriage was successful. A gay male can have his buddy father his kids so no fault there.

As a related point the reason virginity was such a big deal as a virgin female producing your heir was the most reliable method of insuring your first born was even yours. A first born male that you could prove was yours was the best thing for patralinial inheritance.
 
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
Adhoc vote count started by Chrestomanci on May 14, 2017 at 9:48 AM, finished with 33339 posts and 116 votes.
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Ok so next turn are we going to switch to defensive policy and start on the place to the stars mega project or the dam mega project?
 
Necratoid said:
The thing is that Biblically the reason gays were bad is that a gay only male inherits and that leads to your families lands being up for grabs. Its considered on hell of a betrayal to lose everything your family has worked for for generations... simply because you can't do your job as an heir and breed.
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Luckily we don't need to worry about that atleast since we got that super communal property crap :D... though we do have a massive non straight population, based on our leaders i'd say its over at least 8%, since a few of our leaders were not strictly hetero.
 
ctulhuslp said:
That's because we've had opportunity to grow the size and complexity of the administration gradually; but until some innovation like computers, central planning is kinda meh when scaled because of the lag and other problems which are not the case on the smaller scale.
Granted, full capitalism is equally bad because long-term planning is not a thing (global warming or funding for middle schools or the like), but Ymaryn are really not in any danger from this direction.
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We don't central plan everything (thank goodness) and we allowed a primitive market economy to develop.

veekie said:
At this point I would not be too surprised if our oldest records had started forming strata.

But the big problem archeologically of relying on written records is that text evidence is considered lower quality than material evidence, since it's extremely vulnerable to revisionism over time, and often tells very little outside the interests of the clerks. Most of our records are tallies, numbers, numbers and more numbers, with the symbols they are linked to mutating in meaning over time.

Great for a civ stat sheet, but terrible for trying to build a picture of early Ymaryn life.
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I don't think we have just clerk records, but also court cases and edicts passed from the King. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a whole section of the library dedicated to judicial ruling, which should give insight into how the Ymaryn lives. Don't forget that our shamans write too.

The archaeologists might get lucky if the floor plans are preserved despite the constant destruction.
 
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)

Oh, good. I caught up in time. Perception is more important than reality. Even if the son is the best for the job (reality), it still weakens meritocracy because it will not be seen as due to his innate skill, but due to his parentage (perception). So for achieving a meritocracy in the future, we are forced to deny the meritorious choice because it wont be seen as that. Is politics not fun?
 
Diomedon said:
Oh, good. I caught up in time. Perception is more important than reality. Even if the son is the best for the job (reality), it still weakens meritocracy because it will not be seen as due to his innate skill, but due to his parentage (perception). So for achieving a meritocracy in the future, we are forced to deny the meritorious choice because it wont be seen as that. Is politics not fun?
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That's only the perception on the fringes since the endorsement of the mother will come after everyone already agreed hes the best for the job
 
McLuvin said:
Can I have a tally please?
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Ok
Adhoc vote count started by Ghostdevil on May 14, 2017 at 9:55 AM, finished with 33346 posts and 117 votes.
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No7sHere said:
Ok so next turn are we going to switch to defensive policy and start on the place to the stars mega project or the dam mega project?
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We probably won't have the option to decide.

If you do a tally like AN does you get this:

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 1308 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
[x] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
No. of Votes: 107
McLuvin
10ebbor10
2xMachina
Abby Normal
AbeoLogos
aceraptor
Amador
Andres110
andrewopk
Arbit
Athanor
Athas
BlueFlamingWings
bluefur87
BrightFuture64
BungieONI
butchock
Carrnage
Cerillian
Chiperninerm
Chrestomanci
ConfusedPotato
Crazy7s1
ctulhuslp
Deathbybunnies
Dieb
Diomedon
Dirk93
DragonParadox
drake_azathoth
Dream Logic
Duesal
Entropy Engineer
ETA50M
Falconis
Fumbles
Gavoon
Ghostdevil
gigantisrex
Glassware
godofsmallthings
Hangwind
highs2lows
huhYeahGoodPoint
hylas240
Ian Drash
indra
kalugin
Karugus
keenscythe
kel
Kiba
Killer_Whale
kilopi505
Kingofbooks
Lilithium
lioli
Lunamoto
Malevolo
Manget
Marlin
maximillian
Motoko
Necratoid
Neptune
Nicklance
No7sHere
notgreat
NotteBoy97
Oblivion2007
Painfulldarksoul
pbluekan
pblur
Piren'e Colass
Potato and Chip
Power
Powerofmind
Quest
Rakuhn
Reader of all
redzonejoe
Romv
RulerOfNothing
Shard
sidestory
Sivantic
Skjadir
Spectrum
StarkDemise
Stelarwand030
tenchifew
thatguy
Timewinders
TotallyNotEvil
tryrar
Tylonius
UbeOne
Umi-san
Uvigz
Varano
veekie
Versharl
WeaponX1023
Wellhello
wingstrike96
zamin
zeusthemoose
[x] Support son (chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
No. of Votes: 63
McLuvin
10ebbor10
2xMachina
Abby Normal
AbeoLogos
Amador
andrewopk
Athanor
Athas
BlueFlamingWings
Carrnage
CeBrudras
Cerillian
Chiperninerm
Citino
ConfusedPotato
Crazy7s1
Deathbybunnies
Dieb
DkArthas
DocMatoi
drake_azathoth
Duesal
Entropy Engineer
Falconis
Gavoon
Ghostdevil
gigantisrex
godofsmallthings
Golden Eyed King
hylas240
indra
kalugin
Katsuragi
keenscythe
kilopi505
Kingofbooks
Lilithium
Manget
maximillian
Motoko
Neptune
notgreat
Oblivion2007
pblur
Piren'e Colass
Powerofmind
Quest
Reader of all
ScreenWatcher
Sightsear
Spectrum
StarkDemise
Stelarwand030
thatguy
TotallyNotEvil
tryrar
UbeOne
Uvigz
Varano
Versharl
Wellhello
zeusthemoose
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
No. of Votes: 50
Dirk93
aceraptor
Andres110
Arbit
bluefur87
BrightFuture64
butchock
Chrestomanci
ctulhuslp
Diomedon
DragonParadox
Dream Logic
ETA50M
Fumbles
Glassware
Hangwind
highs2lows
huhYeahGoodPoint
Ian Drash
Karugus
kel
Kiba
Killer_Whale
lioli
Lunamoto
Malevolo
Marlin
Necratoid
Nicklance
No7sHere
NotteBoy97
Omegahugger
Painfulldarksoul
pbluekan
Potato and Chip
Power
Rakuhn
redzonejoe
Romv
Shard
sidestory
Sivantic
Skjadir
tenchifew
Timewinders
Tylonius
veekie
VoidZero
WeaponX1023
wingstrike96
[X] Attack Thunder Speakers to stop border raids (Declares war with goal of stopping attacks, Highlanders will join, likely brings in Thunder Horse and Xohyssiri)
No. of Votes: 1
VoidZero
Total No. of Voters: 117
 
veekie said:
Lost a point, gained a point. Then throw in a Grand Sacrifice, which I'm not sure if it had any effect.
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It had an effect. We were at 2 to begin with, then lost -1 from the refugees and gained +1 from the indexing, leaving us with 2. Grand Sacrifice got us up to 3. We may have gotten unlucky with the refugee roll and lost -2 Stability instead of -1, which would've left us at Stability 1, but since a Main Grand Sacrifice gives +2 Stability, it would've also left us at Stability 3 anyway.
 
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UbeOne said:
You may want to revise your vote since supporting the son gives a chance, not a certainty, of losing Legitimacy.
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Doesn't matter. AN is fusing the votes for the support son option because some folks missed the memo.


See here:
Academia Nut said:
I'm getting 42 to 34 in favour of supporting the son right now.
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Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 14, 2017 at 10:01 AM, finished with 33351 posts and 117 votes.
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Ghostdevil said:
That's only the perception on the fringes since the endorsement of the mother will come after everyone already agreed hes the best for the job
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I disagree. I think we're speaking of two different things when we're talking perception. You're talking about how it will be seen in the immediate sense, by the people who are there. I'm talking about how it will be seen by people who weren't immediately there, either by the common person in the street, or the political successors who want their children promoted and use the tacit legitimacy this gives the nepotistic bent that already exists to do so.
 
Necratoid said:
The thing is that Biblically the reason gays were bad is that a gay only male inherits and that leads to your families lands being up for grabs. Its considered on hell of a betrayal to lose everything your family has worked for for generations... simply because you can't do your job as an heir and breed.

The People have all property as communal, at least for land and the big things, so land inheritance is a matter of competence rather than you having offspring. Lazy kids are the thing everyone hates... laziness is how you fail your family.

Male parentage isn't really trackable so that metric is useless. As long as one of the females in a pairing produces offspring that marriage was successful. A gay male can have his buddy father his kids so no fault there.

As a related point the reason virginity was such a big deal as a virgin female producing your heir was the most reliable method of insuring your first born was even yours. A first born male that you could prove was yours was the best thing for patralinial inheritance.
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The thing is Protective Justice and Symphony here. Betrayal of the marriage bond leads to strife. Thus preventing the bond from being abused is Justice to prevent spreading of feuds. Regardless of inheritance, the problem is a betrayal of trust.

Noting that we accept polyamorous relationships, premarital sex, bastards, prostitutes, etc. But when you are legally and ritually married, things change, because Symphony requires trust and cooperation within all parts, and it happens often enough to be officially a mitigating circumstance for assault and murder.
Kiba said:
I don't think we have just clerk records, but also court cases and edicts passed from the King. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a whole section of the library dedicated to judicial ruling, which should give insight into how the Ymaryn lives. Don't forget that our shamans write too.

The archaeologists might get lucky if the floor plans are preserved despite the constant destruction.
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Oh right, Organized settlements means recording sketches of where things go too. But the earliest stuff from prehistory are gone though, our writing system had only gotten particularly complex after the Scourge Warding, and we've discouraged art early on too.
 
UbeOne said:
You may want to revise your vote since supporting the son gives a chance, not a certainty, of losing Legitimacy.
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I was one of the first people to vote to support the son and spent about twenty pages debating in his favour....

Look at the list of voters in the tally and mine is the first name supporting the son
 
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