Let's not forget that with one dam, the USA singlehandedly destroyed one of the largest and ecologically productive river deltas on Earth. (Colorado River Delta, if you wanted to know)

Yeah, but that was a dam which there has been a lot less enthusiasm in the thread for.

A canal is going to have effects, sure, but we're ecologically minded. Our experience managing eco-systems will mean we'll find some way to integrate the canal into the ecology smoothly.
 
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Yeah, but that was a dam which there has been a lot less enthusiasm in the thread for.

It's only had less enthusiasm because most of us(I think) see the canal as a sensible prerequisite for dam building. Eventually turning the upper reaches of the valley above the upper village into a reservoir is a spectacular idea. It helps us regulate perfect water flow and marginalize the impact of flood and drought seasons. Additionally, by dredging out silt, we can more effectively utilize step farms.
 
I'm not worried they'll take down the walls or anything, i'm worried the small village will get picked off really badly when they attack suddenly. All the Dead Priest would have to do is kill anyone they find outside, kill any caravans to keep them from spreading word, and starve out the village.

We need strategically placed smoke signal, then semaphore towers.
 
That happened because they kept being abandoned and left to rot. Why else do you think that the salt build up? Do you really think we're not going to maintain the Canal?

Yes man-made disasters are a thing, but they arrive mostly through carelessness and as Gardeners of the Land, our people will not be careless about this. Especially since it wil be a Multigenerational Project.

Okay, fair enough. I concede on the "damage of canal" thing.
 
I am honestly now somewhat scared to dig canal because we have little to no idea of what could it change with regards to local ecology.

But eh, we will see whether we have time to care about such things after the update.
This is probably terribly late, but given we'll only be digging a small canal between the tributary of the sea-bound river and the main valley river, and adjusting the natural elements of the tributary otherwise, it is likely a much simpler canal project than initially anticipated. As a mere tributary flow it will be easier to disrupt the flow for more direct working of the bed where necessary (including the troublesome waterfall that would either have to be removed or bypassed partially), and it will clearly have a generally minimal effect on the flow of water and sediments given the situating we'd be doing with the canal, and that it generates a good portion of it's own water supply.
 
This is true, and can be used for military use, also do we have proper music instruments.If we do than we can do a lot with that, if not it would help if we get some.

I don't think musical instruments transmit quite as far.

To the best of my knowledge we don't use smoke signals, and don't have the option to build semaphore towers (we just got horses so we'll have to wait before they become widely used as transportation anyway).

Semaphore towers do not need horses, just the necessary logistics.
 
Through Inkarnate I present to you a crude and not to scale map of the rough relationships between significant settlements and rivers for the Three Peoples. I tried to get more of the other groups in, but the scaling didn't look right because again, everything is loosey-goosey. Improving the trails has massively cut down on travel times though, so its only about ten days between the upper valley village and the coastal village instead of a month. The river with the waterfall is not easily navigable.


I admit, I produced multiple maps in the process of putting together the final product. I actually started with a large continent-scale map that could cover everything I feasibly expected to ever matter, and used basic eyeballed comparison scaling with their grid implement to make an accurate local map. This is an excellent representation for our academic discussions though.
 
I admit, I produced multiple maps in the process of putting together the final product. I actually started with a large continent-scale map that could cover everything I feasibly expected to ever matter, and used basic eyeballed comparison scaling with their grid implement to make an accurate local map. This is an excellent representation for our academic discussions though.
Tbh i'm pretty excited about all these hills and mountains...I bet there's a lot of ores that we haven't found all over the place!
 
I'm curious, does our gardener trait decreases our will to dig into mountains for mineral? Say we noticed non-rocks laying about and we collect those and starts digging downward, does our trait discourages we search for other such non-rocks?

And what about smelting? Those use large amount of charcoal (huge wood demand) and discharge heavy metal water.

Environmental concern before development of human rights! Progress!
 
The main thing is when we do start mining, we'll have to be careful about the waste products because you can really damage the environment and pollute groundwater with the waste products.
 
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I'm curious, does our gardener trait decreases our will to dig into mountains for mineral? Say we noticed non-rocks laying about and we collect those and starts digging downward, does our trait discourages we search for other such non-rocks?

And what about smelting? Those use large amount of charcoal (huge wood demand) and discharge heavy metal water.

Environmental concern before development of human rights! Progress!
Our gardener trait wouldn't give us strife unless we started screwing up the ecosystem with our mining. I don't think it'll give us a boost to mining since it's not directly land management.
 
The main thing is when we do start mining, we'll have to be careful about the waste products because you can really damage the environment and pollute groundwater with the waste products.
I think you're overestimating our tech level.

I don't think we have the tools for deep pit mining. Stone and wood are still the mainstay of our materials.
 
I'm curious, does our gardener trait decreases our will to dig into mountains for mineral? Say we noticed non-rocks laying about and we collect those and starts digging downward, does our trait discourages we search for other such non-rocks?

And what about smelting? Those use large amount of charcoal (huge wood demand) and discharge heavy metal water.

Environmental concern before development of human rights! Progress!

Gardeners is more like making the land sustainable and healthy. If we were really afraid of digging up stuff then we would not be able to make step farms which involved carving up the hills to make them.
 
It will be funny that the first use for gold in our society. Is weapons and tools. Mainly as ammunition for slings, weight for maces, or some sort of tool thing.

"They did what?!.:eek:"

"Some of our people we're found dead with gold lodge in them."

"Do this this barbarians know the value of gold?."

"No. But they know the value of something call iron."

:p
 
It will be funny that the first use for gold in our society. Is weapons and tools. Mainly as ammunition for slings, weight for maces, or some sort of tool thing.

"They did what?!.:eek:"

"Some of our people we're found dead with gold lodge in them."

"Do this this barbarians know the value of gold?."

"No. But they know the value of something call iron."

:p
Useless yellow rocks:p

Still, gold got that valuable beacuse it doesn't rust at all and stays shiny.

Never underestimate the call of shinies.

Nowadays, they don't even have to shine anymore!:p
 
Eventually we will reach the point where our civ must decide which road to take.

 
It's only had less enthusiasm because most of us(I think) see the canal as a sensible prerequisite for dam building. Eventually turning the upper reaches of the valley above the upper village into a reservoir is a spectacular idea. It helps us regulate perfect water flow and marginalize the impact of flood and drought seasons. Additionally, by dredging out silt, we can more effectively utilize step farms.
The dam will be blocking off the flow to lowlands, will it not? We should a) argue over where the dam will be placed and b) realize that none of the rivers we have access to are likely to negatively affect the wetlands at the end of them because i) a dam on the left river won't be far away from its end, so the evaporated water from the dam won't be much off of how much it receives anyways and ii) if we dam off the right river it's fucking over disrupting farm land that belongs to potential enemies, i.e. other people. That it is farmland means it is already a disturbed ecosystem. That it belongs to potential enemies means we don't care unless our eco-powers force us to.

Okay, fair enough. I concede on the "damage of canal" thing.
Also, most of the things you listed were less ecological damage and more just consequences. Like, the delta shrinking is bad but it's not like it completely died off, and in the other case the growth of the land was pretty much positive all around, as the whole benefit of silt is when plants can reach it.
Nvm you agreed w/ the other guy.
Our gardener trait wouldn't give us strife unless we started screwing up the ecosystem with our mining. I don't think it'll give us a boost to mining since it's not directly land management.
agreed.
I think you're overestimating our tech level.

I don't think we have the tools for deep pit mining. Stone and wood are still the mainstay of our materials.
Even non-pit mining is still dangerous and somewhat toxic. It just depends on how the refuse is treated. Usually, modern mining companies just don't give a shit about it and toss it back into the pit when they're done, if not into a nearby hollow in the hillside.
Still have no idea if magic and spirits are real...
What matters isn't if they are, but if you believe they are.

1) If they are real we can: a) treat them as if they are real or b) disregard them.
The former will get them to give us beneficial things, but also seduce our princesses and cause wars for their amusement. The latter will give us stuff regardless, and provoke them into showing themselves.
2) If they are not real we can a) treat them as if they are real or b) disregard them.
The former will give us nothing unless it's incidentally beneficial. The latter will give us stuff regardless. The best choice is to disregard them, because then they'll either a) show themselves or b) not and then we can act accordingly, i.e. disregard them regardless.
 
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