Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
[X][Main] Build Wall - Coastal
[X][Secondary] Expand Pasture
[X][Secondary] Expand Managed Forests
We're gonna build a beautiful wall. The greatest wall.
 
Those dead priest people are doing that already tho.

Also, contact with Sprite Talkers may put question of belief in our field of view; which might require a decision.
 
hylas240 said:
The Western Confederacy as it is will likely come into conflict with the Priests around the beginning of the war, if not a little before. As they are they likely won't be able to defeat the Priests, and will act as a source of slaves for them. The Priests will be unlikely to totally enslave them because of the Confederacy's still prevalent nomadic traits.

If we send a trade mission there to develop their military or their economy a bit, their fear of the lowlands will diminish and will be more confident in their expansion earlier. Since they'll be tougher because of our assistance they'll be a much better opponent for the Priests and disrupt their own actions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think their relationship with the Dead Priests is basically free range slave pinatas though. Culturally the Confederacy avoids conflict when pressed, with a defensive warrior culture. The Dead Priests have an aggressive centralized warrior culture. This means the Dead Priests will expand VERY slowly compared to the Confederacy, but the Confederacy doesn't have many ways to resist them, especially if another natural disaster rolls down.

Boosting the Confederacy's economy is currently a delayed boost to the Dead Priests' economy, but they're also a source of migrants for us due to trade ties.
Umi-san said:
I don't really think the dead priests have started forestry, as they grew up in a more plainish biome, but agree they've probably started having better irrigation. I think a trade expedition to WC might help them be stronger IF we didn't rely more or less solely on our dyes and crafts as a trade item. Maybe it would strengthen their politics scene tho.

I'm more inclined to trade with the NN kinda just cus theyre not a part of this whole mess.

I agree that the ST are going to be at risk of internal troubles. A trade there might help prevent that but they honestly might not have anything to give us that's worthwhile. I'm leaning toward staying out of it or trading with the WC on the whole. Staying out of it is winning though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'd highlight that the Spirit Talkers are the main source of spiritually significant baubles and artwork due to their build, but pretty much agreed. Getting tangled into that mess is going to be bad.
Umi-san said:
And doing so would tie them to us, yes. Can the DP reach us directly or do they have to go through the WC? Who borders us directly?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Only the Western Confederacy(in the loosest terms, since we're separated by badlands), unless they have figured out a way to go up whitewater rapids, the Dead Priests need to go through either the Spirit Talker area or the Confederacy area to reach us.

hylas240 said:
In regards to the possible natural disaster.

I'm pretty damn sure its gonna be a Drought/Flood combo instead of the volcanic eruption people think. It just seems too suspicious narratively speaking that the Dead Priests just happened to start developing infrastructure against droughts and floods just as we get a sign of a future natural disaster.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The possible disasters
-Pure Floods - Probability low. Such a flood would be noticeable from our side because it'd flood us too.
-Droughts - Probability high. A drought can cause loss of soil cover upstream without impacting overall river depth, especially if there's no irrigation there.
-Landslide/Earthquake - Probability high. A collapsed cliff or hill being worn away by the river would add the silt without much complications or noticeability.
-Volcanism - Probability moderate. It would produce the necessary silt, and there IS a volcano within long travel distance.
-Extreme weather patterns - Probability very high. Increased wind force would explain both the coast changing, the increased churning of coastal waters and the silty rivers from wind-scouring.

zamin said:
But are we making the lowlanders pay for it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We pay for everything in our area.
 
veekie said:
I think their relationship with the Dead Priests is basically free range slave pinatas though. Culturally the Confederacy avoids conflict when pressed, with a defensive warrior culture. The Dead Priests have an aggressive centralized warrior culture. This means the Dead Priests will expand VERY slowly compared to the Confederacy, but the Confederacy doesn't have many ways to resist them, especially if another natural disaster rolls down.

Boosting the Confederacy's economy is currently a delayed boost to the Dead Priests' economy, but they're also a source of migrants for us due to trade ties.

I'd highlight that the Spirit Talkers are the main source of spiritually significant baubles and artwork due to their build, but pretty much agreed. Getting tangled into that mess is going to be bad.

Only the Western Confederacy(in the loosest terms, since we're separated by badlands), unless they have figured out a way to go up whitewater rapids, the Dead Priests need to go through either the Spirit Talker area or the Confederacy area to reach us.


The possible disasters
-Pure Floods - Probability low. Such a flood would be noticeable from our side because it'd flood us too.
-Droughts - Probability high. A drought can cause loss of soil cover upstream without impacting overall river depth, especially if there's no irrigation there.
-Landslide/Earthquake - Probability high. A collapsed cliff or hill being worn away by the river would add the silt without much complications or noticeability.
-Volcanism - Probability moderate. It would produce the necessary silt, and there IS a volcano within long travel distance.
-Extreme weather patterns - Probability very high. Increased wind force would explain both the coast changing, the increased churning of coastal waters and the silty rivers from wind-scouring.

We pay for everything in our area.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was thinking we'd supply the ST with the raw materials to make religiously significant accoutrements. It's simply that the relative rarity and expense would make them more special.

I feel like a strong enough/regular boost to the WC's economy is more than worth it so that they'd feel more free to settle down and increase their military and economic strength. Regardless, though, even a minor boost on our part, while a delayed boost to the DP due to an increased availability of slaves, will help the WC provide something of a barrier while we build the canal and grow. I'm relieved to hear that we have a buffer from what seems like the only major threat atm. (Assuming that the ST will at least try to diplo us, first.)

I'd note that while the DP will expand very slowly normally, a strong enough religious impetus or outside threat will see a rapid response. If the ST claim that whatever this disaster is is through their doing, the DP will probably start a war with ST. At that point, we would have a choice between convincing the WC to work with the ST or directly supplying trade to the ST at a reduced-ish price. The former is, of course, preferable.

I feel like we'd notice an extreme change in the weather patterns, but maybe we just suck at astro-meteorology.
 
Ghostdevil said:
Ehhh, I am a little iffy on that aesthetic remaining for so long
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Just imagine it tho: spaceships that look like stone huts on the inside; regular challenges of honor and justice; people who still use sophisticatedly chipped knives of increasingly durable mineral compositions; vast spaceships with large amounts of farms.

"Hey Nirphindra, can you use the pull-beam to bring a space rock to our void canoe's mouth?" One pilot says to another. "Sure, but only if you stop using such simple words. I'm not an idiot, Dishyr. My mother's from the trading clan, for Crow's sake."
 
Last edited:
Umi-san said:
I'd note that while the DP will expand very slowly normally, a strong enough religious impetus or outside threat will see a rapid response. If the ST claim that whatever this disaster is is through their doing, the DP will probably start a war with ST. At that point, we would have a choice between convincing the WC to work with the ST or directly supplying trade to the ST at a reduced-ish price. The former is, of course, preferable.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Spirit Talkers declared war on the lowlands due to their practice of human sacrifice, and they're evidently cranking up for a war of their own(while the Dead Priests are boosting economy in preparation for the same). The Western Confederacy is not going to be able to ally with the Spirit Talkers without giving that up...but unless they go full farmnut they're settling lands which require some means of population exhaustion in times of famine that isn't war everywhere.

They're basically collateral damage at present, though I think if we have a route through the hills that isn't a harsh trail with no food, we should be able to start biting off chunks of the Confederacy, entirely willingly on their part.
*Eyes the Canal*
 
Last edited:
veekie said:
The Spirit Talkers declared war on the lowlands due to their practice of human sacrifice, and they're evidently cranking up for a war of their own(while the Dead Priests are boosting economy in preparation for the same). The Western Confederacy is not going to be able to ally with the Spirit Talkers without giving that up...but unless they go full farmnut they're settling lands which require some means of population exhaustion in times of famine that isn't war everywhere.

They're basically collateral damage at present, though I think if we have a route through the hills that isn't a harsh trail with no food, we should be able to start biting off chunks of the Confederacy, entirely willingly on their part.
*Eyes the Canal*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What do you mean by "some" means of population exhaustion? Obviously that means is sacrifice.
I hope that that it is true that ST is gearing up for a war WITH DP, and that we are not co-opted into the fight against our will.
The route should be something we can manage, whether with the canal or otherwise (Activate Project: Even More Trails). I rather think that we'd be capable of making the "badlands" "goodlands," while doing so. Our farming and ecosystem skills are peerless, after all.
 
Umi-san said:
What do you mean by "some" means of population exhaustion? Obviously that means is sacrifice.
I hope that that it is true that ST is gearing up for a war WITH DP, and that we are not co-opted into the fight against our will.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes. But human sacrifice is the basis of the Spirit Talker conflict with the Dead priests. They would not accept an alliance with the Western Confederacy for that reason, where they're concerned there's no difference.

It is unlikely for us to be dragged into that fight due to distance. We're protected by distances and geography.

Umi-san said:
The route should be something we can manage, whether with the canal or otherwise (Activate Project: Even More Trails). I rather think that we'd be capable of making the "badlands" "goodlands," while doing so. Our farming and ecosystem skills are peerless, after all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not sure you appreciate the problems with the soil there. It's mainly rocky soil and hard baked clay, with little to no water access. It's likely that if we simply bring water, it'd bring the mineral salts up to the surface and finish wrecking it, and we don't have the means of bringing truckloads of richer soil from our land to give it enough ground cover to plant trees on.

We're really good at the ecology thing, but you cannot grow crops on rock.
On the other hand often such lands tend to have mineral deposits for mining...
 
Walls wise we might want to do another set for the lower valley if things heat up. It's relatively new and not hyper defensed up
 
The thing about this war, is it's far away. No one has any reason to come near us, because we don't trade with them, we don't fight them, we don't talk to them. Let's keep it that way until after they kill each other.

Keeping the high ground, yeah?
 
veekie said:
Yes. But human sacrifice is the basis of the Spirit Talker conflict with the Dead priests. They would not accept an alliance with the Western Confederacy for that reason, where they're concerned there's no difference.

It is unlikely for us to be dragged into that fight due to distance. We're protected by distances and geography.


I'm not sure you appreciate the problems with the soil there. It's mainly rocky soil and hard baked clay, with little to no water access. It's likely that if we simply bring water, it'd bring the mineral salts up to the surface and finish wrecking it, and we don't have the means of bringing truckloads of richer soil from our land to give it enough ground cover to plant trees on.

We're really good at the ecology thing, but you cannot grow crops on rock.
On the other hand often such lands tend to have mineral deposits for mining...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm lacking in knowledge about rock salts, and soil in general. Perhaps because I missed a more descriptive setting or do not have a prior knowledge of the term, my understanding was that the badlands' problem was that they were a heavily broken terrain, i.e. a bunch of cliffs and hills. In that way, it's bad for farming and living. Regardless, we probably could mine it and add plants as we mine by mixing our and our animals' waste into soil/gravelly sand near the town that we'd make. An issue is that the salts and mining would likely make the soil be quite poisonous to most of the plants we could find, but there are probably some species already growing in the BL that can stand it. If those species are edible or make suitable, non-toxic fodder for our animals...

After we mine out parts it might be worth it to dig a tributary/canal from a nearby river to water the land. It might ruin it early on, but growing plants that can endure the heavy metal and salt would still work, and with a small inflow the water would probably run back into the river again, leaching the soil in small amounts.
 
Through Inkarnate I present to you a crude and not to scale map of the rough relationships between significant settlements and rivers for the Three Peoples. I tried to get more of the other groups in, but the scaling didn't look right because again, everything is loosey-goosey. Improving the trails has massively cut down on travel times though, so its only about ten days between the upper valley village and the coastal village instead of a month. The river with the waterfall is not easily navigable.

 
Academia Nut said:
Through Inkarnate I present to you a crude and not to scale map of the rough relationships between significant settlements and rivers for the Three Peoples. I tried to get more of the other groups in, but the scaling didn't look right because again, everything is loosey-goosey. Improving the trails has massively cut down on travel times though, so its only about ten days between the upper valley village and the coastal village instead of a month. The river with the waterfall is not easily navigable.

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

*sobs tears of joy and wonder*
 
Huh. If the badlands are south, that means that any raiding parties will hit the lower valley village first. We might want to invest in walls there for protection.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top