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Paths of Civilization

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pbluekan said:
There was also a post by AN where he stated the rivers ran north-south. That means one of them dumps into the ocean in the west, and the other continues on down to where the dead priests and western confederacy are. We don't even know where that one ends. You should also keep in mind that it was no more than a day or two's walk from the river our Valley Village sits on to the one with the waterfall. That's not more than 20-30 miles.

Just... don't expect things to work the way they might if we were in the Fertile Crescent. If we do, AN is likely to kick our teeth in. The world is mostly an unknown; there for us to discover and fight against. Look at it this way, the Fertile Crescent is now the bombed out shithole of the world. Do you really want to be them?
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Academia Nut said:
It was a full cycle of the moon from leaving the village to arriving at the home of the Sea People, and Dwthwyr had seen many amazing things, but he had also seen many worrying things.
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It's not a a day or two's walk from the 2 villages. While building roads likely but down travel time by quite a bit, the distance is a lot larger than you think.

I'm not saying to expect everything to be exactly like our world's fertile crescent, just that your map is inaccurate.

Academia Nut said:
More or less. The big difference is that the river you live on is more north-south running, with the fishers living on a second river. Its why they hauled their canoes along with them, they were portaging across hills from the river they came from.

No, the spirit talkers are in a different region, its why the Underworld journey was a different option, Cwryl couldn't have possibly visited both in the time he had left in his life.
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Since the river systems are separate, it seems more likely that the increase in siltiness in the rivers is because of rainfall, or just a large landslide.
 
Somewhere in the future. Five people from the five tribes sit together in a inn. When some strangers ask them a question.

"What do all of you do for fun?."

"Rodeo."

"Sailing."

"Racing."

"Buy things."

"What's fun?."

:p
 
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Alright so let's talk about what to do about the lowlanders. The Dead Priests are as always being total assholes and raiding their neighbors for slaves and human sacrifices, but they're now taking actions to protect them from natural disasters and any crazy shit from the Spirit Talkers.

All in all in seems the Dead Priests have heavily focused on their own land management without expanding their farming practices, so it looks like they started Manage Forests along with some other actions (maybe they built some small dams or dikes?). They started developing administration last turn so it's possible they were able to take an extra secondary action. They'll be more resistant to major disasters, but I bet Droughts will still hit them hard.

The Western Confederacy have become more diplomatic but still rub our people the wrong way. They're also developing actual centralization and becoming more organized, along with them starting to get over their fear of the lowlands and expanding back into there. Lastly, they're expanding their farming practices to help support their population and help divorce themselves from their nomadic ways.

These guys seemed to actually get some damn diplomacy and work on their economy. Its nothing large though so they're still small fry compared to the Dead Priests and Spirit Talkers. If we let them expand back into the low lands though it'll mean them having conflict with the Dead Priests. While that's all and good, the Dead Priests are much more organized so it might give the Priests easy access to slaves which will be baaad.

The Spirit Talkers on the other hand, have assimilated a bunch of minor villages into their fold. This would boost their centralization score and greatly help them with collective action...but it means they haven't focused on boosting their martial, diplo, or economy. Still, their martial is pretty high and now they have more actions they can take (maybe an extra secondary action? who knows) so they can do a bunch more things now in the same time frame.

Not sure how well they assimilated their villages, but they might actually face social strife in the future from the centralization tolerance. It doesn't say that they did anything else besides assimilate them so i'm guessing they only did that and not anything else.

Edit: The Priests might've also did some basic irrigation...but since farming wasn't mentioned i'm not sure. It's possible though, since it would make sense to irrigate if you wanna keep your crops alive during a drought or prevent them from being washed away during floods.

Edit Edit: To start off the idea train consider this.

The Western Confederacy as it is will likely come into conflict with the Priests around the beginning of the war, if not a little before. As they are they likely won't be able to defeat the Priests, and will act as a source of slaves for them. The Priests will be unlikely to totally enslave them because of the Confederacy's still prevalent nomadic traits.

If we send a trade mission there to develop their military or their economy a bit, their fear of the lowlands will diminish and will be more confident in their expansion earlier. Since they'll be tougher because of our assistance they'll be a much better opponent for the Priests and disrupt their own actions.

Thoughts?
 
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hylas240 said:
Alright so let's talk about what to do about the lowlanders. The Dead Priests are as always being total assholes and raiding their neighbors for slaves and human sacrifices, but they're now taking actions to protect them from natural disasters and any crazy shit from the Spirit Talkers.

All in all in seems the Dead Priests have heavily focused on their own land management without expanding their farming practices, so it looks like they started Manage Forests along with some other actions (maybe they built some small dams or dikes?). They started developing administration last turn so it's possible they were able to take an extra secondary action. They'll be more resistant to major disasters, but I bet Droughts will still hit them hard.

The Western Confederacy have become more diplomatic but still rub our people the wrong way. They're also developing actual centralization and becoming more organized, along with them starting to get over their fear of the lowlands and expanding back into there. Lastly, they're expanding their farming practices to help support their population and help divorce themselves from their nomadic ways.

These guys seemed to actually get some damn diplomacy and work on their economy. Its nothing large though so they're still small fry compared to the Dead Priests and Spirit Talkers. If we let them expand back into the low lands though it'll mean them having conflict with the Dead Priests. While that's all and good, the Dead Priests are much more organized so it might give the Priests easy access to slaves which will be baaad.

The Spirit Talkers on the other hand, have assimilated a bunch of minor villages into their fold. This would boost their centralization score and greatly help them with collective action...but it means they haven't focused on boosting their martial, diplo, or economy. Still, their martial is pretty high and now they have more actions they can take (maybe an extra secondary action? who knows) so they can do a bunch more things now in the same time frame.

Not sure how well they assimilated their villages, but they might actually face social strife in the future from the centralization tolerance. It doesn't say that they did anything else besides assimilate them so i'm guessing they only did that and not anything else.

Edit: The Priests might've also did some basic irrigation...but since farming wasn't mentioned i'm not sure. It's possible though, since it would make sense to irrigate if you wanna keep your crops alive during a drought or prevent them from being washed away during floods.

Edit Edit: To start off the idea train consider this.

The Western Confederacy as it is will likely come into conflict with the Priests around the beginning of the war, if not a little before. As they are they likely won't be able to defeat the Priests, and will act as a source of slaves for them. The Priests will be unlikely to totally enslave them because of the Confederacy's still prevalent nomadic traits.

If we send a trade mission there to develop their military or their economy a bit, their fear of the lowlands will diminish and will be more confident in their expansion earlier. Since they'll be tougher because of our assistance they'll be a much better opponent for the Priests and disrupt their own actions.

Thoughts?
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I don't really think the dead priests have started forestry, as they grew up in a more plainish biome, but agree they've probably started having better irrigation. I think a trade expedition to WC might help them be stronger IF we didn't rely more or less solely on our dyes and crafts as a trade item. Maybe it would strengthen their politics scene tho.

I'm more inclined to trade with the NN kinda just cus theyre not a part of this whole mess.

I agree that the ST are going to be at risk of internal troubles. A trade there might help prevent that but they honestly might not have anything to give us that's worthwhile. I'm leaning toward staying out of it or trading with the WC on the whole. Staying out of it is winning though.
 
Umi-san said:
I don't really think the dead priests have started forestry, as they grew up in a more plainish biome, but agree they've probably started having better irrigation. I think a trade expedition to WC might help them be stronger IF we didn't rely more or less solely on our dyes and crafts as a trade item. Maybe it would strengthen their politics scene tho.

I'm more inclined to trade with the NN kinda just cus theyre not a part of this whole mess.

I agree that the ST are going to be at risk of internal troubles. A trade there might help prevent that but they honestly might not have anything to give us that's worthwhile. I'm leaning toward staying out of it or trading with the WC on the whole. Staying out of it is winning though.
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Academia Nut said:
There are basically four major settlement groups that anyone talks about. The valley people are known for being workaholics, but holy shit do their infrastructure projects impress.

The spirit talkers are a central trading and cultural hub where during a drought, people bring them food.

The fishing village has plenty of food and is a trading point because they have incredible luxury goods.

The lowlanders are asshole!SV who have discovered a cheap combo and they keep pressing the same button every turn. They were doing frightfully well up until the GM pointed out that their strategy was dependent upon unlimited growth unconstrained by environmental factors. They've been bitching for two turns now.
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The ST would be a good trading partner, but it wouldn't necessarily help with stabilization and could suck us into their culture a bit too much. We would benefit more from boosting up the Confederacy with trade honestly, if only just to make them a more adequate meat shield. Also, since they're closer they could give the most up to date information on the Priest's movements as well as more info on how they operate (on top of encouraging them to expand into the lowlands faster).
 
hylas240 said:
The ST would be a good trading partner, but it wouldn't necessarily help with stabilization and could suck us into their culture a bit too much. We would benefit more from boosting up the Confederacy with trade honestly, if only just to make them a more adequate meat shield. Also, since they're closer they could give the most up to date information on the Priest's movements as well as more info on how they operate (on top of encouraging them to expand into the lowlands faster).
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And doing so would tie them to us, yes. Can the DP reach us directly or do they have to go through the WC? Who borders us directly?

If the DP don't border us directly, feeding the WC trade is the best choice. If they do, though, we're probably going to be attacked. But it's still worthwhile; they're too anathema.

I think we should avoid trading with the ST because yeah, it will suck us into their culture. I feel that it would help stabilize them because we'd be trading them shiny things that they could make more shiny and use to enhance their power. But in general, religious groups are too irritating to deal with, and we'd probably get some weird social trait from them that I'd rather not have.
 
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Umi-san said:
And doing so would tie them to us, yes. Can the DP reach us directly or do they have to go through the WC? Who borders us directly?

If the DP don't border us directly, feeding the WC trade is the best choice. If they do, though, we're probably going to be attacked. But it's still worthwhile; they're too anathema.

I think we should avoid trading with the ST because yeah, it will suck us into their culture. I feel that it would help stabilize them because we'd be trading them shiny things that they could make more shiny and use to enhance their power. But in general, religious groups are too irritating to deal with, and we'd probably get some weird social trait from them that I'd rather not have.
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Academia Nut said:
Nishiphur was uncertain about this land. The river here was wild and dangerous, and the land hilly and broken, but it was as far from the lands of the dead priests and the lands of the demons, so it was as safe as they could find. There was evidence of other people living further up the valley, hence why they had not pressed their luck and continued on. There were distant tales of strange people in these hills, but Nishiphur's clans had come from the southern part of the dead lands and had been avoiding outsiders, lest they draw the attention of the dead priests, so he knew little of who might live in these parts.
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It seems that the Confederacy is closest compared to the DP. The lowland settlers we took over were from the southern part of the lowlands, so the DP would be on the East side of that area with the Confederacy being on the West side.

Yeah, the Spirit Talkers were focusing on their culture and religion along with martial, so it'll be more likely that they would suck us in. Trading with them seems like it would just boost their economy though rather than their religious power.
 
hylas240 said:
It seems that the Confederacy is closest compared to the DP. The lowland settlers we took over were from the southern part of the lowlands, so the DP would be on the East side of that area with the Confederacy being on the West side.

Yeah, the Spirit Talkers were focusing on their culture and religion along with martial, so it'll be more likely that they would suck us in. Trading with them seems like it would just boost their economy though rather than their religious power.
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Theoretically trade should, but if they don't have as many dyes as us and they choose to buy them over more useful things, it will raise the stature of some people. Equivalent to how Catholicism worked, basically. Where you had things from a variety of places that were a symbol of power, and maybe you used some to make beautiful inspiring things, but others were used to show how the spirits have lifted you up, and etc. It doesn't work with cynics, but it does with dumbasses.
 
Umi-san said:
Theoretically trade should, but if they don't have as many dyes as us and they choose to buy them over more useful things, it will raise the stature of some people. Equivalent to how Catholicism worked, basically. Where you had things from a variety of places that were a symbol of power, and maybe you used some to make beautiful inspiring things, but others were used to show how the spirits have lifted you up, and etc. It doesn't work with cynics, but it does with dumbasses.
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Good point. Too bad the Spirit Talkers are so religious and stuff. Would've traded with them if it wouldn't have sucked us in to their own culture so damn much.

On similar note, trading with the confederacy would also give us more current info on the Dead Priests.
 
Another possible benefit of trading with the Confederacy is that they'll not only give us info on the Dead Priest but will also grow faster and are more likely to come into conflict with them. We want the Confederacy to remain stable because if they collapse odds are that the Dead Priests will start eyeing us as their next targets.
 
In regards to the possible natural disaster.

I'm pretty damn sure its gonna be a Drought/Flood combo instead of the volcanic eruption people think. It just seems too suspicious narratively speaking that the Dead Priests just happened to start developing infrastructure against droughts and floods just as we get a sign of a future natural disaster.
 
Aww. I was already working on that though....

AN has been rather vague though, so he would probably have a better one anyway...
 
So guys, in the case there's a major drought/flood in the next turn or 2, what exactly should we do for our food production and lovely neighbors?
 
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