I think I've been pretty consistent in saying that I'd like more stability, but that Grand Sacrifice is actually a really shitty source of it outside of emergencies.
I stand by that position.
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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- Original
I stand by that position.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Against dropping it?
I'm like 90% sure that it being yellow was a part of the thing that made the Tax Crisis so bad. If it wasn't yellow I think it would not have been as bad. Personally though I see no real worth in this line of thought so I'm not gonna fight you over it.
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I think here it is more people just shooting the breeze. Almost Everyone has voted for her
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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I'm actually curious about this outlook.
So I ask Why? Is it the narrative? Is it the mechanical efficiency?
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
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- Ranch
They are too busy trying to make a cultural revolution, and preparing for the five turn plan.
I would honestly prefer something more directed.
Hmm, that is certainly possible. Would take a full turn, and we couldn't do it for a long time, but possible.
Do the plains have enough wind to give this idea legs btw?
As someone who also dislikes grand sacrifice outside of emergencies, I will say that it is a temporary solution. It is really expensive, re-enforces superstition, and all other stability increasing options do things like rooting out corruption, enforcing the law, or teach community values. Each of which deals with a much more frequent problem, and in the case of festivals, has long lasting effects that can be very positive if done right.
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Both.
It'd be a lot more valuable narratively for a civ that had land inheritance or a similar wealth concentrator; for us, with our communism, it's fundamentally about destroying wealth. Not a habit we really want to encourage, long-term.
Mechanically, it's inefficient in return for being fast. This is fine, great even, if we need stability right now. But long-term, trying to use it for, say, larger LoO pulls means we're actually bleeding econ; with GS as our stability source, we need a tech gain and minimal social disruption for LoO to be considered profitable, and even then it's marginal.
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pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
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- Lawrence's Wagon
We're going to run a stab boost in the next 2 turns, guaranteed. I'm fine with 1, but I don't think we'll stay there. If we drop to 0 before resolving the march issue, I want stab. (Not interested in chasing the 3 stab shiny till we have a little less to do.)
Unless you have a sudden influx of cash at the same time as a free action for doing it...
Sort of. Centralization represents our control over our extended people. We have a lot, which is why we're able to do things like toss everybody at a single problem and deal with it quickly (Megaprojects, Kicking). On the other hand, it also makes it so that when our leadership screws up, the effects are massive. Other civilizations tend not to have quite the centralization we do, so they don't get the same options as us. So while yes, it sort of contributed to the tax problem, I think that that was by enabling it to happen at all-another civ wouldn't have had the opportunity to try to fine-tune their stuff and the local leaders would have tried to deal with it.
Which has its own problems.
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So that 20 hour estimate I gave yesterday may need to be extended to 36 hours or more (tomorrow morning if you live in North America). I am absolutely beat today.
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I can sort of sympathise, and while I can't feel I speak for everyone it's less that stab is taking a back seat for me and more there's some very specific and important things I want associated with this Queen's reign. And that is specifically outreach and rapprochement with the North.
Theoretically, staying at stab 1 and letting the king following her into office get things stable again should be workable. I just want a single turn at 1 stab to get some shit done, after that GS/Festival or even a RestO if it drops further is perfectly reasonable. I get it's not comforting to be going into this with extra room for mistakes, but this seems like the perfect storm for a charm offensive to try and address some of the issues we're beginning/going to face. If we wind up grabbing the GS, it's not ideal from my perspective but it's certainly workable.
To me the difference is literally;
Main EH
Sec Stallion Aqueduct
Sec Policy-Infrastructure
to
Main Trails
Sec Stallion Aqueduct
Sec Policy-Infrastructure
I mean, for all the people ranting about how obviously the Heroic Admin means we should take this opportunity to import a ton of immigrants to make a bitchin' city, it's still a chance for a Heroic Admin to address the issue traveling across our civ while having high enough diplo to recognize how to best leverage this to bind the North to us.
It just feels like there's a lot of opportunity here to head off a crisis before it begins, and for the sake of that I'm willing to play fast and loose with our stab with the hopes of spending/not grabbing more precludes the need to grab/spend more in the future.
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I very much agree with this.
Also, keep in mind that narrative means mechanical benefits that we can't see. We have seen narrative actions have very real mechanical consequences, and we need to assume they are of major consequence, going so far as assuming they are altering hidden stats.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Well...
To be blunt it is one of the most disrespectful fucking things I've ever had the displeasure to see.
One, it's disrespectful to the other players, as it drains or negatively warps their fun.
Two it is disrespectful to Academia Nut because it is negatively impacting his players and corrupting his hard work.
Three I am sorry but that really pissed me off reading this. Your string of words managed to find my hot button. Straight up I cannot understand how AN can stand the shit that flows through this thread sometimes, and I think he has the patience of a saint or is an alien. Or maybe he enjoys watching people bitching, I don't know. Is it a combination? *ponders*
*comes back* Hmm. More for later.
I am not mad at you but that kinda sentiment is just UNG! for me.
Thanks for answering. Pretty much what I thought. The plains probably have some, maybe not enough but it's worth an attempt. Bluefu87, I think it may not root out corruption but I do think it weakens it. Though only really temporarily and only to a moderate degree.
Wow folks must really not have liked my 4 generation plan if they are still harping on it. Kinda amazed honestly at the dislike, especially when that was geared towards helping everyone's pet projects.
Also no I don't think they are prepping for it. See Ghostdevil and Sivantic's and Notgreats comments right after I posted it around page 1250.
Edit: Oh I do bluefur, it's why I consider them important. Plus the warm and fuzzies that come when we do something awesome.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
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- Ranch
I know right? How dare these colonials be upset about our superior rules and practices, how could they possibly think they deserve to be part of the elite! They should just obey and pay thier taxes and leave the representation to the enlightened mainland.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Are you speaking of the Damn Dam?
I think we can capstone this era with building that. (to me this era is gonna last about 3 or so more turns)
Also @bluefur87 @veekie. Do we have any indication that the Whooping Cough is going to be gone next turn? Has anyone brought up the idea of using poppy as a muscle relaxant, at least for the adults?
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
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- Ranch
Mate that was a joke aimed at our maddingly communistic choices for values and practices. Cultural revolution ?
You know five year plans? Five turn plans?
........
.....
....
I'll just quietly leave
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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I am talking about all the bonus we get for any land based engineering megaproject, although the Dam is the last land mega-engineering project on our list.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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If we take Trails now and don't take in refugees, the only vote I'm going for is something that has a stability gain, Policy -> Expansion, and Aqueduct.
@Sivantic if we were playing the Mayans maybe we could make railways. That would make pulling carts a lot easier and thus reduce the labor dedicated to transportation.
@Sivantic if we were playing the Mayans maybe we could make railways. That would make pulling carts a lot easier and thus reduce the labor dedicated to transportation.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Hrmm.
*puts on thinker cap and pulls out pipe*
I just had an idea!
I wonder if we can make a Queens Road. We have the well cut stone to do it, as well as the land practices...
Hrmmmm! *rubs chin in speculative glee, puffs on pipe*
Railways required wheels. The Mayans know of wheel, but they never used it for transport.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
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- ꙮ
tbh, since if we were in the mayan starter situation we'd be rly, rly different, I guess what I'm saying is actually "yo, if we didn't have pack animals we could use these instead prolly."
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The problem is that some of those leaps are off of cliffs.