Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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Just to consider, building walls around your fields and pastures both takes a lot of construction effort and actively makes it harder for you to do your job. We probably use fences, not walls for our pastures.
...if you're looking to climb the metalworking tech tree, Trade Mission is how you do it. Nobody in the Bronze Age could make the stuff without trade, Tin and Copper don't occur in the same areas geographically!
Copper Mine's only use is copper tool proliferation at present. We don't even have any other ores, so doing Alloy research is simply impossible to attempt.
This line of argument is very much like the Spirit Talkers going "okay, we need better farming technology, so we should Study Stars and try our own farms, which are centuries behind, rather than send traders to see how the farmers in the other country do it"
If your goal is to produce an immediate supply, you're set. If your goal is a breakthrough, steal it or buy it.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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I believe they have because those raiders from a few turns ago were from them having a politics kerfuffle and civil war. It stopped when they consolidated.
Not sure if we should consider the HK walled off but ehh... maybe?
We could just plant trees and grow bocages instead. Or, we make ditches for irrigation channels.
You're looking at the wrong ore. We have Azurite, which doesn't contain Arsenic at all.
...though annexing the Southern Hill People will be pretty difficult, they do have silver and lead mines, which do contain arsenic...
Thats our Stewards defense bonus yes. But not as fast and effective as a knee high wall.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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I'm... not to sure on that last one veeks.
This is a bocage:
Seems pretty impeding to me. I wouldn't be surprised if the Marchers are doing some haphazard limited form of this out on the north end of their territory.
Aqueducts apparently only taken a few years at most to construct for the city of Rome. So it isn't certainly a megaproject. I suspect we'll have an easier time constructing an aqueduct and plumbing system for new cities than we do for renovating old cities.
The fact that we replace buildings regularly is great. No damn pesky and powerful landowners(AKA homeowners) to contend with.
The fact that we replace buildings regularly is great. No damn pesky and powerful landowners(AKA homeowners) to contend with.
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Both, but copper is better done earlier to proliferate the tools. Plus, as mentioned in my post later, according to wiki, arsenic bronze can and does occur naturally.
We can do Salt Gift and/or Trade Mission to the Metal Workers (both of them) after we have our own copper to play around with and to give good tools to our builders.
(Also, I really want better roads)
Again, according to wiki, Azurite is not a major ore but rather an indicator of weathered copper ores somewhere below. So while what we see now is azurite, it won't be it below; instead, it will be the mix of various stuff, about which we cannot really know much, besides it most likely not being all azurite:
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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It's kinda funny but I think you two actually agree for the most part:
Copper tools = better roads.
Proliferating tools.
The rest is in flux but these core points seem shared. Just want to make you folks aware that you seem to be talking past each other on these two pieces.
Considering the values of The People, I wouldn't be surprised if we're going to have another subset of our shamans to deal with that kind of Bronze or the more dangerous and advanced metals.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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We also already have the starts of that going right now. Part of why the Mine doesn't take Stability anymore. Plus the Lined Tailing pits.
*increasing pride in the Ymaryn*
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We know. We are disagreeing on whether the deeper mine can contain natural arsenic bronze and thus can advance the tech trade without trading for it.
Mind, I am not opposed to trading for it at all - in fact, our values are pretty well suited to looking into the technology of neighbours - but I do think having our own mine is more important and better done as soon as possible, while we can go trade the next turn...or just Salt Gift in metalworkers direction and try to wrangle the bronze out of them this way.
BungieONI
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Ok cool. It'd didn't seem like it a bit. Thanks for clearing that up.
While that is indeed true, copper is different than bronze. We have the start, yes, but as noted by many others, Arsenic Bronze is a lot more worse to the environment than copper.
Honestly, I'd wager on The Ymaryn making Tin Bronze out of sheer spite from the pollution and damage caused by Arsenic Bronze
While that is indeed true, copper is different than bronze. We have the start, yes, but as noted by many others, Arsenic Bronze is a lot more worse to the environment than copper.
Honestly, I'd wager on The Ymaryn making Tin Bronze out of sheer spite from the pollution and damage caused by Arsenic Bronze
Well, we would need tin for it first.
And while it is not unheard of for tin and copper to be found relatively near to each other, it is relatively rare.
With our forests it is also harder to find ores in general, and the "alloying" idea is not one we are familiar with as well.
So barring multiple crits I do not see us producing any kind of bronze soon.
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After the Expansion phase we should totally go for Stabilisation phase, which will involve surveys among other things.
(And by other things I mean 'all the roads and boats we can fit in', especially boats because they don't risk redlining Centralisation)
But we need the expansion phase for the provinces and forests.
[X][Main] New Settlement - Southern Shores
[X][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
[X][Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X][Kick] The Garden
Trade is good. Trade keeps us updated on what's happening around us and gives chance of tech spread. Since we also need a Casus Belli for war, trade links are probably one of our best ways to try fishing for it.
Copper mine is nice, but I just don't see it as urgent. Our Cosmopolitan nature lets us milk those trade ties.
[X][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
[X][Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X][Kick] The Garden
Trade is good. Trade keeps us updated on what's happening around us and gives chance of tech spread. Since we also need a Casus Belli for war, trade links are probably one of our best ways to try fishing for it.
Copper mine is nice, but I just don't see it as urgent. Our Cosmopolitan nature lets us milk those trade ties.
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A female holy spirit with the lower body of a snake and dedicated to healing? Gime snek waifu goddess!
Miscommunication here.I'm... not to sure on that last one veeks.
This is a bocage:
Seems pretty impeding to me. I wouldn't be surprised if the Marchers are doing some haphazard limited form of this out on the north end of their territory.
Bocages:
-Pros
--Provides additional benefits in root systems, providing shade for fringe crops, generates fruit and nesting sites for supporting wildlife.
--Provides a slowing barrier to chariots.
-Cons
--Only slows, does not stop chariots.
--No impediment to infantry
--Slow to set up and difficult to repair, as even a thin tree line can take a generation to grow to sufficient maturity and density to impede raids
--Fragile in early growth stage, trees up to 5-6 years old can be toppled by horse and rope alone, trees younger than that can be simply trampled.
Walled fields:
-Pros
--Stops chariots, period. They must either find another entry or dismount and cross.
--Slows infantry.
--Fast to set up. A dedicated crew of masons can roll this out even in a warzone.
--Easy to repair. Likewise, damaging a stone wall is difficult, the most they can do is use a portable ram to hammer a hole through them, but carrying a ram will slow down the raiders, and it's nearly trivial to pick the rocks back up and stack them back into place with a fresh glop of mud.
-Cons
--No benefit in peacetime except to mark out land ownership. We don't have land ownership, so in peacetime it's pretty useless.
In other words, our existing defenses are primarily agricultural, and their defensive qualities are incidental. The field walls are primarily military, and thus they are much more feasible to use as defenses.
It's even listed in the update itself, building the Garden itself is not difficult. But the planning to take into account the usage of water and managing drainage, waste disposal and generally reshaping everything is a pain in the ass the first time.
Mostly design work.
Pretty much. Neither of us believe the other's actions to be useless or harmful.
We just mutually think the other has the order of actions ass backwards
Current priorities:
-If Mine wins
--Turn 2
---Mid turn switch Policy to Trade, with the objective of establishing trade links with all known neighbors. Projected to complete in 1 turn.
---Main New Trails, Main Eastern Hills settlement
---Provinces run 3 Trade Missions(Thunder Speakers, Highland Kingdom, Southern Hill People)
--Turn 3
---Main New Trails, Main Survey(reason is that AN already explained, we can't survey the Eastern Hills for shit unless we already have a settlement there)
---Mid turn switch Policy to Expansion if the two Main New Trails solved the connectivity issue with the Stallion Tribes, with the objective of accumulating Economy 8 to build a reserve for the Dam project.
-If Trade wins
--Turn 2
---Mid turn switch Policy to Expansion with the objective of accumulating Economy 8 to build a reserve for the Dam project.
---Main New Trails, Main Eastern Hills settlement
---Provinces builds Mine and New Settlements
--Turn 3
---Main New Trails, Main Survey(reason is that AN already explained, we can't survey the Eastern Hills for shit unless we already have a settlement there)
---Provinces builds New Settlements. If goal attained, switch to megaproject for Dam next turn.
Accounting for the will of the dice gods of course.
Planning ahead is great.
Just don't lock yourself into a course of action and treat it as a set of objectives instead of a hard and fast plan.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Just as her poison both heals and harms, so too does her affections consist of both love and hate.
I, too, approve of adopting the divine poison yandere.