- Oh, wow. They must be really serious about this. Otherwise, why would they bother to drag all those heavy stone tablets all the way up from their capital and through the war torn lowlands?
Remember the DP's highest caste is the priests. They sent a group of nobles with an extremely heavy and valuable artifact to their enemies to figure out how to pay back the debt. They kind of opened diplomacy with the Thunder Horse they were at war with for us.

It remains to be seen whether the peace will last even a turn though or if they had.
- So the Dead Priests have some version of our old Eye for an Eye trait which makes them want to pay back all debts, good or bad. By freely giving them our cure for cholera, we triggered this super hard
Give as you have recieved twofold at that.
- Oh, and the Thunder Horses are sending us gifts too, which is nice. The Highlanders are probably too caught up in their civil war to send us anything, though I'm sure they're also grateful for the gift of not having to shit themselves to death anymore
I suspect the DPs are going to take the opportunity to ram up their butts, now that they made peace with the Thunder Horse so they could send US a negotiator...
- "The Sacred Book of the Living". Huh, was this the result of one of their own Mega-projects or did they develop this naturally over time? Either way, I WANT
- It looks like the Dead Priests have mellowed out a bit. They apparently aren't as keen on the whole human sacrifice thing anymore and they even have healer priests now, which is a bit weird but also nice to see
It reads like a megaproject, a "compiled formal list of every bit of medical lore" is pretty much what we did with The Law here.
- And it looks like their version of the Greater Good is just as terrifying as ours in some ways. These healer priests are basically saying "You can kill us if you want, but could you let us translate these texts for you first?"
We kind of did the same when we sent people out to spread the word on the cure. Explicitly, some of the messengers sent did not expect to return.
Problem 2 isn't that big of a problem unless we allow our stability to drop to negative right before another refugee wave. As long as we have positive stability (and keep having a positive stability), we should be able to absorb at least some refugees every time this trait procs.
Main problem here is the population pressure over time. We'd run out of space eventually.
Problem 3 is a problem if we accidentally choose or absorb a bad trait. Fortunately, we have an idea about what some of our neighbors would give us (DP = Greater Good, Highlanders = Order Above All). To counter this, I think we need to do more trade missions and gain closer relationships so that we know exactly what traits they have and how well they'd fit into our society.
We COULD switch policy to Trade for one turn between Projects if we wanted. Though Trade never runs out of resources so we need to manually interrupt, it will be able to send out one trade mission to every neighbor at once we build two new provinces.

> New Settlements can let us plop down a new province in Eastern Hills, Southern Shore and Black River (wherever that is)
Black River is on our northern border, along the coast and across the river. At the very limit of our logistics. Not protected by the Stallion Tribes.
> Expand Economy has 9 slots available now
Huh. That's odd. We had 7 slots last turn. We used up two slots on refugees and one slot on Expand Economy, three on Baby Boom, so it SHOULD be at 1. Instead we have 8 more slots than we should normally

AN mentioned that overcrowding problems eased due to the medical discoveries. Might be that every major settlement gained an additional slot? That would loosely line up.
High level astronomy will be very useful when we want to start sailing the blue ocean.

This isn't likely to happen anytime soon, though, so it's value for navigation is significantly reduced at the moment.
Valuable yes
I would like to remind people that, after this, we'll need to go back to doing Expand Holy Sites. We still have some more to do before every province has enough shamans that literacy stops being a problem.
Actually I'm pretty sure the Policy ended, and they can only end if they run out of resources after their task is complete, so every settlement has sufficient literacy for now.
The saltern also has the chance to unlock the taming and domestication of Honeybees, as that would be the next logical in order to mass produce the magic potion for either trading or health aid missions
Odds are if we want domesticated beehives, you need to take Study Forest actions, which grant us a Econ -1 Diplo +1 structure for beehives.
Personally I would rather wait with the Copper mine until we have change our province policy towards research in order to archieve the maximum synergie via

Main Copper Mine
Main Study Metal
Province action
Study whatever (as at this point all our study action have some synergie with Study metal)
Doesn't seem necessary. Just build the mine and then study metal AFTER we start using metal.

More likely it's religious. The healer caste are about preserving the gift of life, so taking it away would be antithetical to their purpose.
Makes sense
More likely to be a holy site dedicated to dead warriors who fought in defence of home.
A funerary site for the war dead? Seems like a good idea there yes.
-Symphony boost to collective actions, spiritually harmonious actions (because it fights disease), and concerted efforts (because even the provinces are putting in effort to do it)
I don't think we can repeatedly trigger the same trait though...
 
While I thought it was a regular vote, and that @Sivantic was spouting nonsense about it being an opt-in to try to convince people that they didn't need to vote not kick and also claim that not kicking was winning anyways even though it totally was. I apologize

It could have won, at that point in the tally. That was why I asked, because it could have gone one way or the other.
 
AN mentioned that overcrowding problems eased due to the medical discoveries. Might be that every major settlement gained an additional slot? That would loosely line up.
This is the kind of bonus I'd expect the Gardens to give us.

Well, more a whole bunch of slots for Valleyhome in particular, rather than one to all of our major settlements, but the same general kind of thing.
 
You know, I just had a thought.

We are going to need some better form of communication soon ( as in a few generations) because we are going to expand immensely thanks Cosmopolitan Acceptance.

I think better communication might be gated behind Study Stars or stargazing megaproject. A map of the stars means our vessels no longer need to hug the coast while travelling. They could just travel using the shortest route.

It might even help integrate the Stallion assholes better too.

So we might want to do those actions sometime soon.
 
This is the kind of bonus I'd expect the Gardens to give us.

Well, more a whole bunch of slots for Valleyhome in particular, rather than one to all of our major settlements, but the same general kind of thing.

Once we figure out aqueducts, we should be able to supply every settlement with water, if nearby spring or lake exists. We won't be able to build aqueducts like the Romans though, not until we have better stoneworking technology and understanding of arches.
 
A map of the stars means our vessels no longer need to hug the coast while travelling. They could just travel using the shortest route.
... While this is true, most of our internal communications issues aren't because of long distances over oceans, and for most of our settlements on the water hugging the coast is the shortest rout.

I'd look to art (for long-term cultural fusing) or watchtowers / animal husbandry (for messenger services) as more appropriate for our immediate communication woes.
 
after their task is complete
Somewhat false- we finished the task by exiting the crisis, such that "literacy" was no longer an in-game explicit goal.

because we are going to expand immensely thanks Cosmopolitan Acceptance.
We're going to be expanding at the same rate as with LoO- the difference is that CA reduces the -1 stability +2 econ option down to only a chance of -1 stability.
 
... While this is true, most of our internal communications issues aren't because of long distances over oceans, and for most of our settlements on the water hugging the coast is the shortest rout.

True, I am talking about the future after we have expanded beyond our current borders. Plus don't forget that sea travel can be much faster that regular overland travel in the right conditions.

@notgreat but we no longer have the option of turning away people. But I guess your point stands considering we have very rarely turned away people. Still we are going to run into issues eventually.
 
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Somewhat false- we finished the task by exiting the crisis, such that "literacy" was no longer an in-game explicit goal.
If that was enough to end the policy, we'd have gotten to switch immediately. Academia Nut explicitly said later that we would have gotten an opportunity to switch, but there had been an unmet underlying goal that the provinces were still trying to complete:
Shouldn't we get an opportunity to change policy right now?
Normally probably, but the policy is bound up in an objective that technically hasn't been resolved yet.
 
It's in Northshore.
As is apparently White Circle(no idea what THAT does either)
Warriors' Rest is Stallion Tribes. They did Main Expand Holy Sites recently, which is how they got it. White Circle is Northshore, and it was there back when we first got the province, it's just that AN forgot to include it in the list until the Stallion Tribes became a thing, so many thought it was the Stallion Tribes holy site. It's why the vote got through to built a settlement in North Shore - to get a holy site there since people thought they didn't have one.
 
I think better communication might be gated behind Study Stars or stargazing megaproject. A map of the stars means our vessels no longer need to hug the coast while travelling. They could just travel using the shortest route.

Study Stars won't help yet, Our shortest route by the map is not that far from the coast hugging route. We don't have ships fit for the deep sea yet.

Better communications routes:
-Dam + Gardens + Copper Mine -> Enables Canal projects to transition our existing internal trails to have a small waterway run parallel? Makes them go much faster when you have boats.

-Chariots x? + Copper Mine -> Transition to using the plank wheel type for civilian use as well now that copper is available cheaply, which enables horse messengers to be used for messages.

-Watchtowers x? + Festival Improvement -> Signal tower relay. Smoke and flag signals on plains, drum signals in forests and hills. We'd need enough towers for every province to have the stuff.

These are the main ones I can see at present for really fixing the transmission lag time.
 
... While this is true, most of our internal communications issues aren't because of long distances over oceans, and for most of our settlements on the water hugging the coast is the shortest rout.

I'd look to art (for long-term cultural fusing) or watchtowers / animal husbandry (for messenger services) as more appropriate for our immediate communication woes.

I'd add religion (monolithic source of carriers of same language and values will to a degree unify population) and festivals.
So...Expand Holy Sites probably should decrease cultural drift in wherever they are placed.
 
If that was enough to end the policy, we'd have gotten to switch immediately. Academia Nut explicitly said later that we would have gotten an opportunity to switch, but there had been an unmet underlying goal that the provinces were still trying to complete:
Note the "technically". I asked during the crisis resolution turn, where technically the crisis was still ongoing. We could've voted "one more turn", and the crisis would've continued. Thus, we were not allowed to change policy at that time.
 
Study Stars won't help yet, Our shortest route by the map is not that far from the coast hugging route. We don't have ships fit for the deep sea yet.

Better communications routes:
-Dam + Gardens + Copper Mine -> Enables Canal projects to transition our existing internal trails to have a small waterway run parallel? Makes them go much faster when you have boats.

-Chariots x? + Copper Mine -> Transition to using the plank wheel type for civilian use as well now that copper is available cheaply, which enables horse messengers to be used for messages.

-Watchtowers x? + Festival Improvement -> Signal tower relay. Smoke and flag signals on plains, drum signals in forests and hills. We'd need enough towers for every province to have the stuff.

These are the main ones I can see at present for really fixing the transmission lag time.

I still think we should do study stars because if we don't have a map then our vessels would have no reason to go to the deep seas in the first place.
 
Well, we should certainly ensure any new provinces we create get a named Holy Site, yes. I just question the need to invest farther than that at this point in time.
Given that they are primarily interpreters of laws and are 'outside' of chiefs creating slaves-in-all-but-name schemes and are way less patriarchal than other parts of our society, I'd say giving them more stuff is not a bad idea; within bounds of course, but we've kinda neglected them.
 
Hooy, @Academia Nut, copper mine gives economy. Does that mean our technical stat definition has finally evolved somewhat?
I think he said at some point that that won't happen until the 17th century or something like that. Copper Mines gives us more economy probably because of how immensely useful it is for labour by letting you do less of it. Lower labour requirements means that you both produce more food and that you need less food in order to do stuff.
 
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Warriors' Rest is Stallion Tribes. They did Main Expand Holy Sites recently, which is how they got it. White Circle is Northshore, and it was there back when we first got the province, it's just that AN forgot to include it in the list until the Stallion Tribes became a thing, so many thought it was the Stallion Tribes holy site. It's why the vote got through to built a settlement in North Shore - to get a holy site there since people thought they didn't have one.
No, Warriors Rest is Northshore when we built a Main Settlement there. Stallion Tribe sites are not listed because we cannot upgrade them.
Somewhat false- we finished the task by exiting the crisis, such that "literacy" was no longer an in-game explicit goal.
Actually no:



Normally probably, but the policy is bound up in an objective that technically hasn't been resolved yet.
Which would be "ensure sufficient literacy to read The Law for the People"?
Correct.
See above
Slate sounds like an immensely reasonable choice to me. I think if they'd been obsidian plugs we would have heard about it, and while one can both grind and polish obsidian into a nicer shape any micro-ridges as a result of carelessness would be damaging and dissuade people from its use. Plus, it's just better as a cutting tool.

I assume they're not precious stones e.g agate due to a lack of mention of value or color, in addition to the fact that that would be ostentatious in a way that contravenes the robes.

@Academia Nut Spirit Chief: How were the tattoos made? What kind of stone are their earrings made out of? How cooperative are they? What are their opinions about our land? About their own homeland? Where do healing priests stand in the hierarchy? What is your opinion on the value of the Book of Life in comparison to our body of knowledge?
Hmm, didn't consider slate, but it's possible, as slate is a pretty durable rock as well. Very hard to work though, compared to basalt. So I didn't think of it.

Whoops, you already brought up slate.

I'm pretty sure you're thinking about those robes wrong though. Cotton robes pre-textile revolution are:
  • Insanely expensive
  • Often the only pure white cloth around
Those are yet more ostentatious wealth. This caravan might well be carrying years of labor for the entire DP artisan class.

Edit: also, we were aware IC that they were cotton. Is that a previously known trade good? Who has it?
If you factor n that their priests are their noble caste, yeah.
So you see the decor:
-Elaborate hand tattoos on healers point to a shaman level of skill to reliably make those tattoos without risking a crippling hand infection. Estimated a few days of labor from highest caste.
-Earrings and piercings of polished rock. Recall that cutting fine discs of rock and then polishing them is days of skilled labor with metal tools, and that piercings cost healer time and also metal tools.
-Cotton robes. Each robe is at hundreds of man-days of labor on a crop that produces sparsely.

And then you have the tablets, which are EACH years of labor to collect and collate their medical lore, then you have shamans(again, highest caste labor) painstakingly scribe the artwork and words, then to melt and it with gold for illustration...then transporting it unmarred and unrobbed.

Years of labor would be fairly accurate yeah.
 
Hooy, @Academia Nut, copper mine gives economy. Does that mean our technical stat definition has finally evolved somewhat?
Copper makes it take less work replacing the tools to do your job, so it frees up Economy from increasing availability. It's probably like Black Soil, we can invest into it X times before the Economy gains cap out.
Given that they are primarily interpreters of laws and are 'outside' of chiefs creating slaves-in-all-but-name schemes and are way less patriarchal than other parts of our society, I'd say giving them more stuff is not a bad idea; within bounds of course, but we've kinda neglected them.
AN explicitly pointed out that this was mostly due to the Shamans NOT getting much expansion, so they don't really have spare time to get involved with politics. If we expand their power they'd become as political as everyone else.
 
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