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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Sir Stompy said:
Researching 9 seals at once (actually 6 seals but w/e) is basically guaranteed to cause a Sealing failure since we can't generate FP fast enough to cover the necessary rerolls. Cut it down to 2 and we can just barely do it. This just isn't in the cards at Hazou's current un-SSA'd Sealing
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hmm, even with max prep on all of them I don't think we can guarantee safety on Chuunin seals yet.
 
Seals I've been able to find that we know the difficulty of but haven't finished:

CATEARS: Chuunin
Megalovania: Jonin
Macerators v4: "Jiraiya - TN between 70 and ∞."
Dragon's Roar: "Jiraiya - TN between 70 and ∞."
Rocket Boots: Jonin
Earth Pillar (chakra construct): Genin
City of Pillars (real earth): Chuunin
Instant Darkness Dome: Chuunin
Banshee Lover: Chuunin
Fourfold Violet Flame Barrier: Jonin, Chuunin with notes
5SB - Chuunin
Force Wall - Chuunin
Air Tunnel - High Chuunin
Electrocution - genin
Substitution - genin
Twin Repulsion - genin
 
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Shrooms said:
Seals I've been able to find that we know the difficulty of but haven't finished:

CATEARS: Chuunin
Megalovania: Jonin
Macerators v4: "Jiraiya - TN between 70 and ∞."
Dragon's Roar: "Jiraiya - TN between 70 and ∞."
Rocket Boots: Jonin
Earth Pillar (chakra construct): Genin
City of Pillars (real earth): Chuunin
Instant Darkness Dome: Chuunin
Banshee Lover: Chuunin
Fourfold Violet Flame Barrier: Jonin, Chuunin with notes
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There's also the Air Tunneling seal from when we were looking to annihilate Rock. We made progress with chuunin stats iirc. Don't think the sealing categories existed back then.

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eaglejarl said:
PSA: Progress on the Air Tunneler Seal.​
Hazō made made a tiny bit of progress after 5 prep days. The seal is extremely difficult, both in terms of chakra infusion and the precision that's necessary for drawing it. At this rate he estimates that it's months of work still to do.
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Sir Stompy said:
Right, and we're completely giving up on FOOM to do this. It's not.....good. Let's stick to 2x SSA, that seems to be the greatest expected value RN

Unless people have genin seals they'd like to see completed
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Would me making the change to just two research projects earn your vote?

I could be convinced to trim down to prep days to check stuff (and check a wide variety of seals), researching 4 fold Preservation, the minato line, and DE plus any genin seals, with the rest taking a backseat until next update very easily, and potentially 4 fold and minato if the thread feels very strongly

Though, guys, 50 sealing even without SSA is totally reasonable to research chunin seals with max prep days. If hazō feels like he's not making process we know it's a high chunin seal, but other wise we should make good progress each roll
 
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Shrooms said:
Earth Pillar (chakra construct): Genin
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Let's start researching this on days we do SSA rolls. So it would look like MS7 (SSA), DE (SSA), Earth Pillar (no SSA)
Shrooms said:
It would be cool to make a version of this that lets us move faster as a speed buff
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For normal humans air resistance isn't much of an obstacle, but ninja move so fast at higher levels that it actually might be a pretty strong force.
Twinnstars said:
Would me making the change to just two research projects earn your vote?
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Prooooobably not. I like most of the research, but I don't want to vote for a update that is 100% research.
Twinnstars said:
Though, guys, 50 sealing even without SSA is totally reasonable to research chunin seals with max prep days. If hazō feels like he's not making process we know it's a high chunin seal, but other wise we should make good progress each roll
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Completely giving up FOOM to make six research rolls in 7 days at 62 eff Sealing vs. 4 rolls at 74 eff Sealing in 6 days is not a good deal IMO.
 
Shrooms said:
Seals I've been able to find that we know the difficulty of but haven't finished:
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Also asked about these two earlier.
ProperAttorney said:
Hi! Quick question, what difficulty does Hazo think that the Five-Seal Barrier and Force Wall are by looking at Kagome's research notes?
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Velorien said:
Both are chūnin. Kagome advises you that they are both quite hard for chūnin-level seals, and that you should use full prep days.
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Rafin said:
Does that mean that doing things that are a challenge under mental consequences counts for overcoming barriers even if the same activity wouldn't count under normal circumstances?
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PONWOG it depends. A programmer who's learned to work effectively through migraines is not necessarily going to create better programs than a programmer of equal skill who has perfect health.

Crunbum said:
Accordingly, there were passages about this and how Clan Heads cannot exert nearly as much authority over their jounin as they can over other clan members, because these jounin can simply choose to leave at any time because where a regular clan ninja would be stripped of all the benefits that belonging to a Leaf Clan brings to the table
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Can you cite any of these passages? No QM remembers ever writing this.
 
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RandomOTP said:
PONWOG, would it be within the realm of a Declare that Akane wrote down all the jutsu she knew for the Goketsu Vault, and that Hazou traced over the notes (thus recording the jutsu notes into his Iron Nerve?)


Admission: This is a transparent attempt to ensure the Goketsu still have secret access EM, or at least the jutsu that Asuma taught Akane.
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Official statement: No, sorry. Hazō's onscreen actions have been predicated on the idea that the jutsu had been lost permanently and we aren't comfortable with such a massive change to the past.

Kylinger said:
But if the goal isn't to nerf FOOM and is just about QM fun, then how about something simpler? Something that we already have a form of implemented: "QM had fun exp". Just make it much, much more impactful.
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Velorien said:
I think your reasoning is missing the point of what stagnancy represents.

Let's take Rock Lee. Say Rock Lee beats up ten genin a day.

His stakes are that some of them will die in the field without the taijutsu experience he can provide. His meaningful chances of failure are that some of the genin might already be dead because he didn't get to them in time. Do either of those things cause him to meaningfully advance as a martial artist by beating up ten genin a day?
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Kylinger said:
What is keeping him from teaching them fast enough to save them all?

Is he limited by his physical stamina? Then it wouldn't be a combat challenge, but a athletics/physique/CR challenge
Is he limited by his teaching capability? Then it is a leadership challenge.
Or is it impossible to teach them faster/better, such that he only has to give them half effort for the same outcome? Then it is not a challenge.
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The scenario you're discussing isn't a martial arts challenge, it's a teaching challenge. Yes, teaching can help you improve your own skills because it forces you to go back and review your fundamentals. Maybe (probably not) this would be good for one unlock, but it would definitely not be a reliable way for Lee to stay unstagnated.

ProperAttorney said:
Voting is closed, but just wanted to point out that Hazō already learned this. You can check the informational threadmark where I've quoted the learned seals.
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Watsonian: The Epic Seal of Awesomeness With A Really Awesome Name That You Have To Say All Of Every Time Or It Won't Work And Also I'll Punch You In The Face, This Means You, Hazō is a very weird seal. It's ridiculously easy to learn but it is absolutely unmodifiable. Hazō isn't sure why, but whenever he changes things even slightly the seal stops working.

Doylist: I wrote that seal into the story for the sake of a joke and don't want to have narrative consequences from it, where 'narrative consequences' include the players using it to springboard to something useful, or as a starting point for learning how to make seals that cannot be modified. You're welcome to create your own sound recording seals ab initio but this one will not provide mechanical benefits or a starting point.
 
eaglejarl said:
I wrote that seal into the story for the sake of a joke and don't want to have narrative consequences from it, where 'narrative consequences' include the players using it to springboard to something useful, or as a starting point for learning how to make seals that cannot be modified. You're welcome to create your own sound recording seals ab initio but this one will not provide mechanical benefits or a starting point.
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There's never been an allied, powerful person who was more skilled at being useless to us than Jiraiya

I mean come on he went out of his way to make a seal we couldn't even learn from
 
eaglejarl said:
Official statement: No, sorry. Hazō's onscreen actions have been predicated on the idea that the jutsu had been lost permanently and we aren't comfortable with such a massive change to the past.
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This is reasonable and makes sense. Would it be possible for Akane to have written down her other jutsu (Firefly and Flame Aura) so that the Goketsu still have access to those?

Narratively, it would be that the Clan was so busy that Akane didn't have time to write down EM, Basan's Glide, or her other jutsu. Akane was busy helping lay the foundations of the Clan, working with Noburi to troubleshoot problems before they reached Hazou's desk (as we see in that one "joys and perils of NPC autonomy," iirc), FOOMing, then the war, then EM Nuke aftermath, then spending all her time using her medical stats to...

I'll be honest: my entire reasoning for wanting Firefly and the Flame Aura jutsu is so that the clan isn't entirely without some tangible remnant of Akane. Maybe our soon-to-be Academy Graduate picks up Flame Aura in Akane's memory, maybe Reo tinkers with the Firefly jutsu to make it better in combat to honor Akane's memory...

I just really miss Akane, but I will totally understand if the ruling is that it wouldn't make sense for the Goketsu to have Firefly and Flame Aura, but not EM and the rest.
 
I don't see why we would want to retain EM. Plus, the Jutsu's effect is really easy to recreate anyway. it's just the wind spirits really hating cold weathers.
 
RandomOTP said:
This is reasonable and makes sense. Would it be possible for Akane to have written down her other jutsu (Firefly and Flame Aura) so that the Goketsu still have access to those?

Narratively, it would be that the Clan was so busy that Akane didn't have time to write down EM, Basan's Glide, or her other jutsu. Akane was busy helping lay the foundations of the Clan, working with Noburi to troubleshoot problems before they reached Hazou's desk (as we see in that one "joys and perils of NPC autonomy," iirc), FOOMing, then the war, then EM Nuke aftermath, then spending all her time using her medical stats to...

I'll be honest: my entire reasoning for wanting Firefly and the Flame Aura jutsu is so that the clan isn't entirely without some tangible remnant of Akane. Maybe our soon-to-be Academy Graduate picks up Flame Aura in Akane's memory, maybe Reo tinkers with the Firefly jutsu to make it better in combat to honor Akane's memory...

I just really miss Akane, but I will totally understand if the ruling is that it wouldn't make sense for the Goketsu to have Firefly and Flame Aura, but not EM and the rest.
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We were explicitly told to destroy any copies of EM we had, so while it's possible she did write it down, it would be gone now

No idea about Flame Aura. We know she did have a firefly scroll (one she took from the Liberator guys and that she showed to Takahashi) but uhhh that jutsu is not very impressive. The public jutsu library is probably a better bet.

Flame Aura would be nice though. That's a technique good enough to be worth learning a new element for, that Hazou may want to grab someday (or for that matter, Mari, who could very easily reach jonin level Taijutsu base, on top of all our great TJ buffs.)
 
Kiba said:
I don't see why we would want to retain EM. Plus, the Jutsu's effect is really easy to recreate anyway. it's just the wind spirits really hating cold weathers.
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I knew it was a long shot, but the idea was to save us the time of researching a similar seal.

Really, I just want to keep something tangible of Akane's that we can pass down to new Goketsu. That was it's like she's still protecting the Clan, even if she's dead.

Paper once said that he thought martial art styles couldn't be learned from scrolls, so we don't have Akane's Youthful Punching style to pass down. So that just leaves jutsu.

I suppose that I may just have to settle for continuing to speedrun Necromancy, and tanking the XP hit from stagnancy.

Sir Stompy said:
It's a pretty useless seal in general, I want the veterency for seals that make rocks. Building towards a Punch Bullet seal to replace the Macerator line that's pretty much tapped out.
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Making a MARI seal would be pretty beneficial to Uplift, and the Pillar Seals would provide veterancy for it.

Take the Pillar Seals -> turn into a MEW-esque Seal -> turn into a MARI-esque seal.

Toss it the research project to our junior sealmaster, tell them to take their time and fully prep, and then once MARI Seal is created, release it to the Tower so that the creation of NOBURI Roads can accelerate.
 
eaglejarl said:
"I would be willing to share the Flame Aura and Firefly techniques," Akane said. "Firefly is from outside of Leaf and therefore should have value." She hesitated, biting her lip. "I...I think I would like to keep Elemental Mastery for myself." She looked away, clearly embarrassed. "It's the only thing I have that is unique."
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Both these techniques are public domain why do we care if we have the scrolls or not
 
Shrooms said:
No idea about Flame Aura. We know she did have a firefly scroll (one she took from the Liberator guys and that she showed to Takahashi) but uhhh that jutsu is not very impressive. The public jutsu library is probably a better bet.
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The Flame Aura is good yeah, and I know that the firefly jutsu (which we should still have the scroll for, if you're right?) is a pretty trash jutsu, but my hope is mainly rooted in sentiment, and a vague poetic notion of Akane helping the Goketsu from the afterlife.

Just gotta go get her, I suppose.
 
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