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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Kei's right, we should've went to her first. Shika gave us nothing, zero help and I still wonder why we thought he would help more than our close friend/sister.

Cariyaga said:
  • Plans include a statue of Jiraiya (styled as a tribute he'll appreciate) in the entryway, little waterways with (non-deadly) koi, and scattered, communal gardens.
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Didn't Kei kinda tell us not to do this?
 
[X] Action Plan: After-Action Report
Word count: <300
  • Continue to be there for Akane. Don't respond emotionally if she gets angry, or blows up at us, or even breaks up with us.
  • Noburi:
    • How's being the Toad Summoner going?
      • Can you ask Ma and Pa Toad for stories on Pasafutsu?
      • What about the previous Polemarch as well?
      • Has he found any good teachers? Can he?
    • We know Mari, Akane, and Kei are primed and ready to explode. The Seventh Path is a mess (Great Seal, Dragons, Condors/Pangolins). Hidan could reappear any time. Anything we're missing?
  • Kei:
    • Request a high-opsec conversation.
    • CCnJ throughout.
    • Acknowledge we continually fail to include her when plotting. This is a blind spot: we've noticed several of ours recently.
      • We don't consult Kei or Asuma.
      • We don't think of ourselves as being part of Leaf.
      • We're politically weak and vulnerable.
      • Who else don't we consult? What other blind spots do we have?
    • How much can we trust you?
      • Can we discuss clan secrets with you?
      • How would you navigate knowing a Goketsu secret that could impact the Nara?
      • These are serious questions - we don't know how this works. Clans are weird and the Nara/Thinker stuff is weirder.
    • Can we trust Ami?
      • We don't want to become her tool. (Acknowledge the irony.)
    • Right now, Goketsu is pretty broken.
      • A lot of it is down to our stewardship.
      • Our no-shit plan is to revive Jiraiya.
        • Explain the current state of Rift progress (Minato's seals).
      • Would that actually solve our problems? What are we missing? What do we need to do differently?
    • Asuma taking us under his wing. What are your thoughts?
    • We miss you, and we miss our family. Everything is fucked up and broken. We'll fix it or die trying but both seem like plausible outcomes.
    • We love you. We're sorry.
 
MadScientist said:
Continue work on Minato-chain/rift seal as long as EJ is comfortable.
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I have serious concerns about this: the Akane situation is (apparently) developing and I'd rather just play this out little by little so we don't miss something and lose her.
MadScientist said:
She is family, we value her and, independently, her judgement. We had sensible reasons for the decision we made.
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Do we? In hindsight I think that going to Kei (similar levels of information, more closely aligned to our cause, can bring Shikamaru, is probably willing to explore a wider solution space) first would have made sense, and I can't think of anything more infuriating than hearing yet another justification from Hazo.

I'm all for deferring the Kei conversation, but that line seems like it can be cut or pared back so we're not locking ourselves into an approach that might or might not go well.
 
faflec said:
Short plan because I suck at making them myself. Will add stuff upon request.

[X] Action Plan: The Story of Pasafutsu
Word Count: ???
  • Continue to be there for Akane. Don't respond emotionally if she gets angry, or blows up at us, or even breaks up with us.
  • Noburi: How's being the Toad Summoner going?
    • Can you ask Ma and Pa Toad for stories on Pasafutsu?
    • What about the previous Polemarch as well?
    • Has he found any good teachers? Can he?
  • Continue making arrangements for the move into Leaf, as per the previous plan.
  • Work on Minato-chain/rift seal as long as EJ is comfortable.
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Not so minor edits.
 
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FaintlySorcerous said:
Do we? In hindsight I think that going to Kei (similar levels of information, more closely aligned to our cause, can bring Shikamaru, is probably willing to explore a wider solution space) first would have made sense, and I can't think of anything more infuriating than hearing yet another justification from Hazo.
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We do.

That whole plan hinged on the idea of Shikamaru talking Asuma into voluntarily not asking questions. Only Shikamaru could accurately judge whether this was plausible.
 
I have a question about the entire Kei situation: Should we explain to her why we took the actions we did? Keep in mind the idea that Asuma was not the first person we approached regarding our WMD is likely to send the Kage into a killboxing attitude.
 
MadScientist said:
We do.

That whole plan hinged on the idea of Shikamaru talking Asuma into voluntarily not asking questions. Only Shikamaru could accurately judge whether this was plausible.
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Does she actually want to know any of this?

Moreover, she could have given us odds on that actually working.

I don't think that justifying what she believes to be a mistake is the move, and we don't need to put it in this plan. 'I had good reasons' is not the sort of thing you want to tell someone who is currently upset with you, at any rate. You can't do logic to feelings.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
Does she actually want to know any of this?

Moreover, she could have given us odds on that actually working.

I don't think that justifying what she believes to be a mistake is the move, and we don't need to put it in this plan. 'I had good reasons' is not the sort of thing you want to tell someone who is currently upset with you, at any rate. You can't do logic to feelings.
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This section is not trying to do logic to feelings. Quite the reverse.

As I understand ROTP's intention with this section, this part is intended as a withering side-eye to get her to feel embarrassed for reacting with hostility. It's not a dichotomy of "logic vs reassure her", but rather a statement of "grow up and stop throwing a tantrum, we're not going to enable this shitty behaviour".

Correct me if I misinterpret you, @RandomOTP .
 
MadScientist said:
This section is not trying to do logic to feelings. Quite the reverse.

As I understand ROTP's intention with this section, this part is intended as a withering side-eye to get her to feel embarrassed for reacting with hostility. It's not a dichotomy of "logic vs reassure her", but rather a statement of "grow up and stop throwing a tantrum, we're not going to enable this shitty behaviour".

Correct me if I misinterpret you, @RandomOTP .
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Which shitty behaviour? She's very upset with us and she's terrified for the life of her effective sister. She's totally in the dark and her reaction was to...have a short conversation with us in which she was honestly fairly polite?

What did you want her to do?
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
Which shitty behaviour? She's very upset with us and she's terrified for the life of her effective sister. She's totally in the dark and her reaction was to...have a short conversation with us in which she was honestly fairly polite?

What did you want her to do?
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"Not be angry/hurt+betrayed at us for consulting Shikamaru instead of her on something Shikamaru was better suited to advise us on than she was" is my guess, but as I say, this section isn't my baby.
 
MadScientist said:
That's fair. I also understand frustrations expressed by other players about Kei's reaction.
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And I recognize this, but feel that people are conflating Kei's internal reaction with her external reaction. One is emotional bitterness over not being trusted (based on an untrue situation; FMPOV we needed Shikamaru to be heavily involved with Asuma anyway and so the risk of getting Kei's additional optimization did not outweigh the risk of her being killboxed if the truth got out), the other is...uh, snark over Jiraiya's statue? Commentary on their psychological deficiencies? That's not...those two things do not feel comparable, to me.
 
I'm worried about if kei's akane personality plan blows up. But hazou doesn't know about it so stopping it even if we were inclined would be tricky
 
MadScientist said:
This section is not trying to do logic to feelings. Quite the reverse.

As I understand ROTP's intention with this section, this part is intended as a withering side-eye to get her to feel embarrassed for reacting with hostility. It's not a dichotomy of "logic vs reassure her", but rather a statement of "grow up and stop throwing a tantrum, we're not going to enable this shitty behaviour".

Correct me if I misinterpret you, @RandomOTP .
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It's not intended as a side eye, but CCnJ of "Hey, we both know that you're angry with me. We both know that you have this habit. So let's work to overcome it, together."

But also allows Kei the time and space she needs to calm down enough to be able to have a productive conversation.
 
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