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It's something that would have to be done over the course of centuries*, assuming Noburi was being truthful about things. I don't think it's worth it because assuming we did put the resources in to getting things to work, we would have attained godhood and could just take koi from the Wakahisa Clan by the time the wild koi were tamed.
I think this is the point where we're splitting off. I agree that capturing wild koi as chakra beasts would likely be ineffective for the purposes of breeding our own supply of Wakahisa koi as chakra batteries* (under the assumption that Noburi was truthful about the subject, informed about the subject and that the people informing him of the subject have correct records, and under the assumption that medical-nin or bio-sealing would not provide pathways to either accelerate the breeding process of wild koi->Wakahisa koi or enable the larger koi to be used as chakra batteries. I think that most of these ideas are likely dead-ends and that Noburi's explanation is the clearest way forward, but I don't think that so strongly as to dismiss exploring the options). I don't agree that striking that possibility makes capturing the wild koi useless.
If you are interested in exploring slaving hivemind animals to our will, might I suggest animals that would not carry the risk of affecting our koi, especially since we'd have to bring these koi into Leaf? Like, say, the millipede swarm?
I don't think that I agree with the characterization of my intent here, or the characterization of animal husbandry in general as slavery, but that aside, no. I think that the interaction between wild and domesticated koi is one of the largest points of interest here.
This is one of the places where text over the internet separated by hours can be a bad means of communication. For me the lets see if we can evoke Mareo's name was just a suggestion and not an idea. I hadn't but any real thought or effort into it. It wasn't a building block to something larger or in anyway important to me. So I think a better way to phrase my post to make it more clear would have been to say you don't think any of my plans are viable. (plans in the broad sense not the action plan sort of way)
Once again another failure on my end. I don't think you have anything personally against me. It's just that we fundamentally disagree with each other about the realities of the situation. Each of our assessments about my plans are going to wildly diverge. This leads to these long loops where we both keep hitting our points but, neither one of us is going to move a significant amount towards agreeing with the others points. The pattern of our discussions have been firmly set and I don't see them changing. So I just think we can both save time, effort and, frustration by not having the discussions and basically stay at the same positions we would if we did have them.
I think wild/domesticated koi interactions is something we want to ACTIVELY AVOID given that a very possible result of the interaction is that our domesticated koi become part of the wild koi hivemind, making them unusable to us and setting us back for however long it takes for us become god.
That doesn't make sense as an outcome unless the koi hiveminds and individual koi genetics work vastly different than we can expect.
Maybe the Wakahisa just made that shit up
I am confused. I had been previously operating under the impression that you wanted wild koi and domesticated koi to interact, specifically in the context of subverting the Wakahisa Clan's supply or to generate combat koi. Now you are arguing that the various koi hiveminds...aren't? Or are proximity-focused, with the underlying assumption that letting them interact and then separating them won't have any long-term effects (and that we would recognize the issue and separate them before it would happen)?
Thank you for being clear. If the wild koi can be captured, it will probably be nonviolently by civilians. For a discounted price because other jobs pay poorly and asking for too much gets them killed. If this step is too costly, efforts can stop here. Having a wild koi farm away from Konoha is less valuable, but still valuable. Transport to Konoha will have to wait for Noburi to get permission to leave. He can drain fish to harmless levels and for safety fish can be transported one by one. Wakahisa have no legal justification to be upset about wild koi. If they are still upset, it creates leverage to ask for something in exchange for stopping. Wild koi do not need to be domesticated to be valuable. Not too attached to the idea of combat koi or interactions between wild koi and domesticated koi, but precautions are available. Only introduce one wild koi to one domesticated koi at a time. Only introduce koi to each other that have never connected to the minds of any koi but their parents.
I'd be down to throw a line in a plan asking Ma/Pa/Cannai/etc. about how many chakra beasts exist on the 7th Path. That said, the ROI on this is highly uncertain as it's unclear whether or not we can actually drain them safely.
I don't have a problem with it being brought up periodically; my issue is that when it's brought up, it's brought up without what I see as sufficient context/caveats and I view not providing those as adjacent to perpetuating misinformation. Making sure those are added is important to me, especially if the ideas are to be discussed.
That's fair enough. I think you're being hyperbolic depending on how we're defining 'my' here; we probably agree on some plans implemented e.g. going on this scroll hunt. If you want to say something like 'when I've brought up larger ideas, I can't recall a time you supported them' that seems fair.
While I don't feel like I understand how you view the realities of the situation we do definitely disagree, and you're saying you don't find value in the conversations, so that's that.
If we're seen by a patrol and we just leg it, then I think we're opening ourselves up to a whole world of pain. Any patrol that we can run away from is likely a patrol that we could have taken out, and I think it sends a clearer message to be discovered, kick some ass, and let them live either with an offer to come to Leaf or strict instructions to leave the scary missing-nin alone. If we just run, that's a manhunt in the making - I can't imagine a village that's going to shrug and say 'welp, that's unlikely to be a problem' if a patrol comes back and reports a half-dozen unidentified shinobi.
All I'm getting from this koi discussion is that some people want to enslave a hivemind, and some other people are worried that would restore enough sentience to the slave inbred race we already own so that they are no longer useful to us.
I'd like to pull an @eaglejarl and say that, without any comment on whether it's a good idea, that would be awesome and I thoroughly endorse it.
Last time we saw him he showed that he was pro-social enough to do business. We would have some cool hivemind beast that he'd be interested in . Plus he's already promised not to murder us and Oro is a man of his word
TBF with the Dragonpart deal he wasn't really forced all that much.
I need to stop you two and remember you we had both the monopoly on the dragon parts, and would blow it up if he tried something. It was both easier less a problem to pay us whit his pocket change than other alternatives.
In canon its stated that both toads and snakes have it, it is the basis for the curse mark, i see no reason that the snakes would not have it we mfd if the toads have.
I think we only know that the Toads aren't the only ones with it. Hiruzen and Jiraiya sorta discussed it in a letter with Hiruzen telling him to shut up because it's secret. It did also sound to me like it's not universal knowledge, but I don't think it was explicitly stated
Given that Sage Mode is recognisable by the user faintly resembling the animal they learned it from, how would you tell?