Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
One suggestion for how to murder your way to a better world would be to destroy those who are maintaining the status quo for their own benefit.
One option for this would be to murder all of the Kage, as they are obviously all the strong recipients who benefit from the existing status quo. However, as we've seen, they also are currently restrained by the existing system, and thus are unlikely to be the forces maintaining it as well.
No, the clearest candidate for the forces most likely maintaining the status quo, and thus the top of our kill list should be The Watchers. They refuse to allow any creative experimentation with the fabric of reality, and reality is currently one of our major obstacles to success.
If this is deemed too hard by Hidan because he is insufficiently devoted to Jashin, and thus isn't told of their location, then as a callback, we could just go Yagami Light and have him murder anyone that violates the principles of Uplift, thus forcing the world's citizenry to enact uplift via the Anthropic Principle.
One option for this would be to murder all of the Kage, as they are obviously all the strong recipients who benefit from the existing status quo. However, as we've seen, they also are currently restrained by the existing system, and thus are unlikely to be the forces maintaining it as well.
No, the clearest candidate for the forces most likely maintaining the status quo, and thus the top of our kill list should be The Watchers. They refuse to allow any creative experimentation with the fabric of reality, and reality is currently one of our major obstacles to success.
If this is deemed too hard by Hidan because he is insufficiently devoted to Jashin, and thus isn't told of their location, then as a callback, we could just go Yagami Light and have him murder anyone that violates the principles of Uplift, thus forcing the world's citizenry to enact uplift via the Anthropic Principle.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Hey, @eaglejarl and @Velorien? What does Hazou know about Cloud and Leaf's cultural attitudes towards Uplift, I'm general? Also, does Hazou know if they have any Summoners?
I know Cloud has Grandmaster F, who is a summoner (and also might be a sealmaster, iirc). But if Cloud is Uplift-aligned, then we shouldn't go for them, but instead strike at Rock's foundation.
I know Cloud has Grandmaster F, who is a summoner (and also might be a sealmaster, iirc). But if Cloud is Uplift-aligned, then we shouldn't go for them, but instead strike at Rock's foundation.
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- Location
- Pacific standard
What if..... what if we pointed hidan at itachi? I really don't think it would work, but man that would be funny
Edit: I think Orochimaru might be our best bet. He's the only one who might be able to stand half a chance, and if he does die then the human experimentation will stop.
Plus, there's a good argument to be made for how killing Oro actually does further Hidans/Jashins goals: if oro succeeds in making that zombie apocalypse we visioned, there will be no more birth or death sacrifices to Jashin.
Edit: I think Orochimaru might be our best bet. He's the only one who might be able to stand half a chance, and if he does die then the human experimentation will stop.
Plus, there's a good argument to be made for how killing Oro actually does further Hidans/Jashins goals: if oro succeeds in making that zombie apocalypse we visioned, there will be no more birth or death sacrifices to Jashin.
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- Location
- Yes.
OK, now I'm starting to think that we're actually in a genjutsu.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Nah, we met Hidan before we saw Mari. I guess it could've happened while we were at the party, but I doubt it.
- Location
- Pacific standard
Oro is explicitly rationally self serving. As long as we make it in his best interests to play nice afterwards he will. In other words, give him a bunch of shinies.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Okay, so, let's work this out in full (keeping an eye for Hidan's perspective).
The fast way to Uplift is through geopolitical dominance. If the Elemental Nations can achieve actual peace[1] then massive progress will be achieved on Uplift as soon as the dust settles. It can be taken as granted that peace will not happen voluntarily between currently un-allied factions[2], so the only way those factions will be pacified is by dominance. In this, the common ninja more or less don't matter, only the S-Rankers do.
With the extant power blocs being Leaf/Mist/Sand, Rock, and Cloud, the odds are most in favor of the Leaf/Mist/Sand bloc being able to claim dominance, so if we go that route[3] then we need to destroy Rock and Cloud's S-Rankers. We can loosely divide these into two categories: Jinchuuriki and non-Jinchuuriki. Going after Jinchuuriki is less efficient because the Bijuu would just be sealed again into someone else[4], so the most bang-for-your-buck targets would be those village's remaining S-Rankers who are not Jinchuuriki, like Grandmaster F or the new Tsuchikage.
Once Rock and Cloud are sufficiently softened up, war will break out one way or another before Leaf/Mist/Sand alliance to take total dominance (due to, again, the principle that Rock and Cloud would never submit voluntarily). There is plenty of room for things to go wrong here, such as the dissolution of the alliance or the minor villages banding against the coalition or Rock and Cloud being yet too strong to fully dominate, but supposing that does go right then a new world order[5] can be established that creates the fundamental prerequesite to widespread Uplift: that ninjas have enough free time to kill chakra beasts and help civilians instead of fighting each other. From there, some of the job will happen automatically as the various powers realize the change in circumstances and start allocating resources accordingly, but Hazou can use his political power to help expedite such a process within Leaf, and potentially through international diplomatic efforts.
But with all of that in mind, our best path to victory, from all that Hazou currently knows, requires the S-Rankers in Rock and Cloud to die. The most brutal of methods being inducing Bijuu rampages and the most clinical of methods being assassinations of key non-Jinchuuriki S-Rankers. There's good odds that Hidan can figure out better than Hazou who would be the best target, but off the cuff the best targets seem like Grandmaster F and the new Tsuchikage if Hidan does not have a way to steal Bijuu into a non-Rock/Cloud-nin, and Han/Roshi/Shogun B if so. Meanwhile, Hazou can do his best to orchestrate favourable conditions for Leaf/Mist/Sand winning WWIV and staying together as a coherent unit after that.
Given that Rock is currently busy struggling to hold onto their newly-conquered land, the most dangerous entity at hand is Cloud, so if Hazou has to boil this down to a single recommendation:
[X] Kill Order: Grandmaster F
And if not:
[X] Kill Order: Non-Jinchuuriki Rock/Cloud S-Rankers if Hidan doesn't have a means to seal Bijuu into non-Rock/Cloud-nin, Han/Roshi/Shogun B otherwise
[1] Here defined as the various extant administrations significantly scaling back their military actions against other nations so as to free up large amounts of ninja manpower for more productive missions.
[2] Currently allied factions may yet turn on each other if their common enemies vanish, but that sounds like a much more manageable challenge to handle, and one that's more our job than Hidan's.
[3] For Leaf/Mist/Sand to come out on top, 2 villages (Rock/Cloud) must be devastated. For Rock or Cloud to come out on top, 4 villages (everyone else) must be devastated. Plus, Hazou can best push for Uplift if his village is in the winning position.
[4] Unless the aftermath of the death of said jinchuuriki involves the bijuu being subsequently sealed into another party not of the same allegiance of the original jinchuuriki.
[5] The exact nature doesn't particularly matter, but good options include a council of Kages or a central Omnikage (possibly elected by the Kages, in a manner reminiscent of Kage elections) with some or all military authority across the united territories.
The fast way to Uplift is through geopolitical dominance. If the Elemental Nations can achieve actual peace[1] then massive progress will be achieved on Uplift as soon as the dust settles. It can be taken as granted that peace will not happen voluntarily between currently un-allied factions[2], so the only way those factions will be pacified is by dominance. In this, the common ninja more or less don't matter, only the S-Rankers do.
With the extant power blocs being Leaf/Mist/Sand, Rock, and Cloud, the odds are most in favor of the Leaf/Mist/Sand bloc being able to claim dominance, so if we go that route[3] then we need to destroy Rock and Cloud's S-Rankers. We can loosely divide these into two categories: Jinchuuriki and non-Jinchuuriki. Going after Jinchuuriki is less efficient because the Bijuu would just be sealed again into someone else[4], so the most bang-for-your-buck targets would be those village's remaining S-Rankers who are not Jinchuuriki, like Grandmaster F or the new Tsuchikage.
Once Rock and Cloud are sufficiently softened up, war will break out one way or another before Leaf/Mist/Sand alliance to take total dominance (due to, again, the principle that Rock and Cloud would never submit voluntarily). There is plenty of room for things to go wrong here, such as the dissolution of the alliance or the minor villages banding against the coalition or Rock and Cloud being yet too strong to fully dominate, but supposing that does go right then a new world order[5] can be established that creates the fundamental prerequesite to widespread Uplift: that ninjas have enough free time to kill chakra beasts and help civilians instead of fighting each other. From there, some of the job will happen automatically as the various powers realize the change in circumstances and start allocating resources accordingly, but Hazou can use his political power to help expedite such a process within Leaf, and potentially through international diplomatic efforts.
But with all of that in mind, our best path to victory, from all that Hazou currently knows, requires the S-Rankers in Rock and Cloud to die. The most brutal of methods being inducing Bijuu rampages and the most clinical of methods being assassinations of key non-Jinchuuriki S-Rankers. There's good odds that Hidan can figure out better than Hazou who would be the best target, but off the cuff the best targets seem like Grandmaster F and the new Tsuchikage if Hidan does not have a way to steal Bijuu into a non-Rock/Cloud-nin, and Han/Roshi/Shogun B if so. Meanwhile, Hazou can do his best to orchestrate favourable conditions for Leaf/Mist/Sand winning WWIV and staying together as a coherent unit after that.
Given that Rock is currently busy struggling to hold onto their newly-conquered land, the most dangerous entity at hand is Cloud, so if Hazou has to boil this down to a single recommendation:
[X] Kill Order: Grandmaster F
And if not:
[X] Kill Order: Non-Jinchuuriki Rock/Cloud S-Rankers if Hidan doesn't have a means to seal Bijuu into non-Rock/Cloud-nin, Han/Roshi/Shogun B otherwise
[1] Here defined as the various extant administrations significantly scaling back their military actions against other nations so as to free up large amounts of ninja manpower for more productive missions.
[2] Currently allied factions may yet turn on each other if their common enemies vanish, but that sounds like a much more manageable challenge to handle, and one that's more our job than Hidan's.
[3] For Leaf/Mist/Sand to come out on top, 2 villages (Rock/Cloud) must be devastated. For Rock or Cloud to come out on top, 4 villages (everyone else) must be devastated. Plus, Hazou can best push for Uplift if his village is in the winning position.
[4] Unless the aftermath of the death of said jinchuuriki involves the bijuu being subsequently sealed into another party not of the same allegiance of the original jinchuuriki.
[5] The exact nature doesn't particularly matter, but good options include a council of Kages or a central Omnikage (possibly elected by the Kages, in a manner reminiscent of Kage elections) with some or all military authority across the united territories.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Kill Order: Grandmaster F
My reasoning:
My reasoning:
- Cloud's treatment of Kagome makes me skeptical of their morality
- They're also religious zealots, who have thus far in the story ranged from bigoted dickheads to genocidal maniacs
- Hazou has serious reason to believe Hidan will grievously hurt Leaf's military capability if he does not give a good answer, so Hazou needs to suggest a serious target™
- This gives us later plausible deniability and honestly just pretty fucking good logic for when we inevitably have to explain to the Hokage that Hidan is about to go kill the religious head of Cloud and possibly start a war
- Hidan will probably like this suggestion more than other Kages because it is a rival religion that he can spit in the face of
- Grandmaster F is a serious part of Cloud's firepower, being both a master summoner and sealmaster. Her death will severely weaken Cloud, but they're also far away enough that if Rock or whoever decides to invade them in their weakened state, Leaf is far from the danger.
- Hidan can also deliver us the Summoning scroll and her sealing notes, both of which would substantially boost Leaf's power. This could even tie into pitching Leaf and Leaf-aligned villages conquering the EN as "Uplift" which is probably bloody enough to sate Hidan while also hopefully furthering our own goals until we can get rid of him.
The QMs can write the fight as an interlude and it'll be badass
- Location
- Italy
I would like to point out that if Hidan delivers the Summoning Scroll to Leaf,(Or any spies find out) that is the equivalent of screaming "Leaf killed Grandmaster F" and is an automatic declaration of war from Could.
Also
It's possible/probable that Asuma/Mist/Sand will go scorched earth on Rock if they can, maybe on Cloud too.
Also
It's possible/probable that Asuma/Mist/Sand will go scorched earth on Rock if they can, maybe on Cloud too.
- Location
- Yes.
[X] Kill Order: Let's survive his fucking test first, please
I'm still expecting this to all be some elaborate test, and since Hidan specified that we got past the defenses, I'm assigning high probability that Itachi is also present. And he would not be quite as happy to learn of us trying to do a takeovertheworld thing.
I'm still expecting this to all be some elaborate test, and since Hidan specified that we got past the defenses, I'm assigning high probability that Itachi is also present. And he would not be quite as happy to learn of us trying to do a takeovertheworld thing.
I have a question, did it ever get addressed that Mari was a key factor in forcing us to become missing-nin. Like I know Hazo knows and it seemed like he was angry at first and then after the conversation ended it didnt get brought up again. I am at chapter 135 right now so I am asking if I missed something. I assume if it didn't happen at this point that it will get brought up again.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Which is why I would prefer slow-Uplift where we prevent WWIV and gradually eclipse them and angle for a peaceful de-escalation of tensions. But Hidan wants Uplift done fast, and if we can't stop Asuma from going scorched earth, then at least Rock is neutralized one way or another. We're not exactly full of options here.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We could specify someone for Hidan to deliver the scroll to? And say it's a gift from Jashin or whatever.
I'm thinking Mist, afaik they don't have any more summoners and it would connect our villages through the 7th path/strengthen the alliance between Leaf/Mist.
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- Location
- Italy
Then i would strongly suggest to go for Rock S-rankers, not Grandmaster F, unless we want to eliminated that risk for ourselves(Missive to Grandmaster F), that....would make sense. It's not as if a war would actually involve us, as long as Leaf is winning.
No one would accept it, because it's the equivalent of a declaration of war from Cloud.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I mean, if we expect the summoning scroll to incite war, then why not deliver it to Rock? Would certainly help us out a lot if it convinces Cloud to be irrational enough at the death of their religious leader to fight their only remaining plausible ally against the Leaf/Mist/Sand bloc.
Main reason I lean attacking Cloud over Rock is that Rock is already tied up with managing their gains post-Collapse, so they're not going to be keen on pushing the war button, while meanwhile Cloud is a bigger threat on that front. If the name of the game is weakening both of them enough for the coalition to steamroll them, we need them from pushing the war button early enough to stand a chance.
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- Location
- Yes.
*thinking in faflec*
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's a pretty funny and clever idea, but I still don't like the idea of handing over a superweapon to our enemies, even for mindgames.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Is there a way we could convincingly make it look like Rock has it, then hide the Scroll in Leaf or in Hidan's care (not going to get presumptive with him, after all) so counter-evidence doesn't manifest?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Maybe actually give it to Rock, then the world yells at them for working with Hidan and Mist comes in and takes it back immediately?
Honestly I'm still not convinced Cloud will immediately declare war on who has it, though it will definitely piss them off.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hidan also knows about all the "boring" Uplift stuff we've been doing, which would mean so does Itachi. We've been doing almost nothing else since encountering them last. If Itachi still manages to think we're trying to be warlords because we have to deal with Hidan, then there's nothing we can even say that will please both of them, imo.