Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Nope.
Not at all.
The next time we see Jiraiya, Hidden Mountain will no longer exist.
(I've got to give you credit for your persistence, though.)
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @Jackercracks
I know we don't get to see Mari and Kagome's charsheets, but are they gaining xp and levelling up their skills along with the rest of the party or are their skill levels static?
I know we don't get to see Mari and Kagome's charsheets, but are they gaining xp and levelling up their skills along with the rest of the party or are their skill levels static?
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- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes and no. At a certain point, we decided we should start keeping track of how much XP they earn, but so far it's just been banked, with its ultimate fate as yet uncertain.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Have they been earning different amounts of XP than us? Given how their involvement in the story is different?
- Location
- Leeds
Have they been earning more XP than us considering that they're pulling most of the weight?
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They're pulling more of the weight, true, but they also need proportionately greater challenges in order to grow, so it works out about the same. Or that's what I'm saying in order to minimise QM bookkeeping headaches.
Still don't think there's a need to run yet.
We obviously didn't consider that Takahashi would be so effective at snagging Keiko' s loyalty like this. Fine. We know they want to assimilate us yet not really if Yuno is such a problem
I'd say we need to determine just what Keiko's been learning from Takahashi to determine whether this thing's a bust. If she's at the point where she won't share this stuff with us, I think we should consider her a liability.
I want some way of isolating her or asking Inoue to take point on this.
Hazou needs to tell Inoue this pronto as well as the intelligence leak Akane might have caused. The fort's gonna have to reconfigured.
As for Akane, she should be approached about being more careful what she did...
On the other hand It might be a good idea to see if we can turn Yuno. So reprimand and forgive.
As for the fact that they can prevent ninjustu, makes me up their threat assessment.
I kind of want to see if we can turn Yuno.
I will say I won't be broken up if the others think leaving is better.
We obviously didn't consider that Takahashi would be so effective at snagging Keiko' s loyalty like this. Fine. We know they want to assimilate us yet not really if Yuno is such a problem
I'd say we need to determine just what Keiko's been learning from Takahashi to determine whether this thing's a bust. If she's at the point where she won't share this stuff with us, I think we should consider her a liability.
I want some way of isolating her or asking Inoue to take point on this.
Hazou needs to tell Inoue this pronto as well as the intelligence leak Akane might have caused. The fort's gonna have to reconfigured.
As for Akane, she should be approached about being more careful what she did...
On the other hand It might be a good idea to see if we can turn Yuno. So reprimand and forgive.As for the fact that they can prevent ninjustu, makes me up their threat assessment.
I kind of want to see if we can turn Yuno.
I will say I won't be broken up if the others think leaving is better.
Drasky
Dude
Keiko is growing closer to the village.
Noburi is growing closer to Yuno.
Inoe is closest to Keiko, plus she did say something about wanting to play a part in making a hiden village after the swamp. The changes she can do here are as close as she will get.
Kagome is Kagome, but if the majority chooses to stay he will probably stay as well.
If things progress at this rate Hazou may have to leave the village alone, which I am not really against it really, one step closer to being Orochimaru.
Noburi is growing closer to Yuno.
Inoe is closest to Keiko, plus she did say something about wanting to play a part in making a hiden village after the swamp. The changes she can do here are as close as she will get.
Kagome is Kagome, but if the majority chooses to stay he will probably stay as well.
If things progress at this rate Hazou may have to leave the village alone, which I am not really against it really, one step closer to being Orochimaru.
- Location
- how about no
Good news! Their first course of action is not killing us.
Bad news: their first course of action is Borg-style assimilation.
Which... isn't that bad? I mean, accepting this place as our new home kinda completes the original goal of this quest: simply survive. Joining the village gives us a new support network, security other than ourselves, and a hidden home where none of our other antagonists want to find us.
We just have to trust that this village has our best interests at heart! Who needs politics to win wary people over?
Are we done being naïve? They (as in Kannagi at the very least) lied to us once already; let's not fall for their false backroom promises again.
Every single discussion we have had with these people behind closed doors must be reviewed in utter contempt. Yoshida tried to monopolize us as her own pawns, but Mari thwarted the elder's efforts (Yoshida did give us good info on how the council would vote, so she is not completely untrustworthy). Takahashi succeeded by isolating Keiko, but his "training" is causing her melancholy to grow; allowing Keiko's depression to worsen is unacceptable. Kannagi straight up lied to us about the engagement plot, so screw him too.
Our best bet is to focus on Aida Isshin since he is currently in a position where, if we make him an offer to heal Aida Rin, he can't refuse. If Noburi can heal her, that's absolutely fantastic: we now have a debt of honor in our favor. If he can't heal her (as in, he does a diagnostic scan and it comes up bad) we have an excuse to leave the village temporarily. It might result in a hostage situation (where someone on our team gets left behind and we have Yuno come with us), but it would be better than simply letting the elder die. Naturally, Keiko will be leaving the village with Mari to get out of Takahashi's influence and so Mari will have to continue keeping her sane. Noburi has to leave to learn how to be a better medic. Akane has already proven to be socially incompetent around somewhat hostile people (not her fault, but it is what it is). Leaving Kagome alone in a diplomatic role is plain stupid.
Hazou was originally designed to be a lone operative as needed with his always reliable tai jutsu and above average stealth and he did (almost) solo three chunin. He can safely improve our forward base with seals too. We could have Kagome stay with us, but juggling pacifying Kagome while appeasing the villagers seems to me to be somewhat superfluous. Who knows? Maybe we could research a set of seals to act as a communications device with Kagome operating one end while Hazou has the other; that would be a huge boon to any future plans we put forward. In addition as our PC, Hazou would be best equipped to deal with any plots the village cooks up while our team is away and can lie through his teeth as needed. Someone needs to hold down the fort while the team contacts Jiraiya and Hazou is the best equipped to do so alone.
I do agree that now we have to call in Jiraiya. Hell, maybe we could stop giving a damn about decorum and just propose his name as a potential elder to represent our "faction." We need his expertise in summoning to confirm whether or not Takahashi's training is actually useful and his diplomatic expertise would be profoundly helpful. We should still haggle with him to make sure Keiko gets the scroll, but other than that he can have these backwoods yokels unless y'all finally want to put in the effort to play politics. I, personally, would like to engage in politics in an isolated locale so we could learn how it works in practice in this quest. I would enjoy having our own off-the-map safe haven complete with hundreds of chakra-using minion/allies to jump-start any trade empire-building plans we have. However, it makes absolutely zero sense to expect a village that has been isolated for Jashin-knows how long to simply hand over their most precious religious idol. If we want to have any say in our future in this village, we have to act; not react, not follow some conniving elder's proposal, not playing passively, but actively choosing to DO SOMETHING that furthers our goal. It won't be perfect or pretty; something may go wrong and we will have to do damage control, but just letting politics happen means we lose all of our own agency. Want to go training? Better ask your elder parole officer. Want to leave the village temporarily? Nope, you are now a part of the village where no one leaves, ever. If we want to continue playing passive and retire we can do whatever the council says. If we want to save Hazou's mom, we have to be prepared to say, "No, this is what we are doing, fuck you. Don't get in our way" to the council. If we want to have a working relationship with the village, rescue Hazou's mom, and do anything else we have to play politics.
/rant
Anyway, I just don't agree with any other viable move. Raining down death and destruction would irreversibly harm our relationship with our team members. Running away would be construed by Keiko as failing her own leadership position and with her current uncaring attitude that could prove to be disastrous.
Bad news: their first course of action is Borg-style assimilation.
Which... isn't that bad? I mean, accepting this place as our new home kinda completes the original goal of this quest: simply survive. Joining the village gives us a new support network, security other than ourselves, and a hidden home where none of our other antagonists want to find us.
We just have to trust that this village has our best interests at heart! Who needs politics to win wary people over?
Are we done being naïve? They (as in Kannagi at the very least) lied to us once already; let's not fall for their false backroom promises again.
Every single discussion we have had with these people behind closed doors must be reviewed in utter contempt. Yoshida tried to monopolize us as her own pawns, but Mari thwarted the elder's efforts (Yoshida did give us good info on how the council would vote, so she is not completely untrustworthy). Takahashi succeeded by isolating Keiko, but his "training" is causing her melancholy to grow; allowing Keiko's depression to worsen is unacceptable. Kannagi straight up lied to us about the engagement plot, so screw him too.
Our best bet is to focus on Aida Isshin since he is currently in a position where, if we make him an offer to heal Aida Rin, he can't refuse. If Noburi can heal her, that's absolutely fantastic: we now have a debt of honor in our favor. If he can't heal her (as in, he does a diagnostic scan and it comes up bad) we have an excuse to leave the village temporarily. It might result in a hostage situation (where someone on our team gets left behind and we have Yuno come with us), but it would be better than simply letting the elder die. Naturally, Keiko will be leaving the village with Mari to get out of Takahashi's influence and so Mari will have to continue keeping her sane. Noburi has to leave to learn how to be a better medic. Akane has already proven to be socially incompetent around somewhat hostile people (not her fault, but it is what it is). Leaving Kagome alone in a diplomatic role is plain stupid.
Hazou was originally designed to be a lone operative as needed with his always reliable tai jutsu and above average stealth and he did (almost) solo three chunin. He can safely improve our forward base with seals too. We could have Kagome stay with us, but juggling pacifying Kagome while appeasing the villagers seems to me to be somewhat superfluous. Who knows? Maybe we could research a set of seals to act as a communications device with Kagome operating one end while Hazou has the other; that would be a huge boon to any future plans we put forward. In addition as our PC, Hazou would be best equipped to deal with any plots the village cooks up while our team is away and can lie through his teeth as needed. Someone needs to hold down the fort while the team contacts Jiraiya and Hazou is the best equipped to do so alone.
I do agree that now we have to call in Jiraiya. Hell, maybe we could stop giving a damn about decorum and just propose his name as a potential elder to represent our "faction." We need his expertise in summoning to confirm whether or not Takahashi's training is actually useful and his diplomatic expertise would be profoundly helpful. We should still haggle with him to make sure Keiko gets the scroll, but other than that he can have these backwoods yokels unless y'all finally want to put in the effort to play politics. I, personally, would like to engage in politics in an isolated locale so we could learn how it works in practice in this quest. I would enjoy having our own off-the-map safe haven complete with hundreds of chakra-using minion/allies to jump-start any trade empire-building plans we have. However, it makes absolutely zero sense to expect a village that has been isolated for Jashin-knows how long to simply hand over their most precious religious idol. If we want to have any say in our future in this village, we have to act; not react, not follow some conniving elder's proposal, not playing passively, but actively choosing to DO SOMETHING that furthers our goal. It won't be perfect or pretty; something may go wrong and we will have to do damage control, but just letting politics happen means we lose all of our own agency. Want to go training? Better ask your elder parole officer. Want to leave the village temporarily? Nope, you are now a part of the village where no one leaves, ever. If we want to continue playing passive and retire we can do whatever the council says. If we want to save Hazou's mom, we have to be prepared to say, "No, this is what we are doing, fuck you. Don't get in our way" to the council. If we want to have a working relationship with the village, rescue Hazou's mom, and do anything else we have to play politics.
/rant
Anyway, I just don't agree with any other viable move. Raining down death and destruction would irreversibly harm our relationship with our team members. Running away would be construed by Keiko as failing her own leadership position and with her current uncaring attitude that could prove to be disastrous.
- Location
- ?
Thing is, turning Yuno to our side won't be hard at all. Have Noburi ask her to run away with him like Hazou asked Akane way back, Yuno won't say no. I'm just firmly convinced that having Yuno tag along is a bad idea. There's only so much Mari and rest of us can do to adjust her personality, and I fear nothing short of brainwashing would get rid of her more disturbing traits.
I don't want us staying in ninjaville, it reeks of non-standart game over. The plan was always to stick around just long enough to grab the scroll, but the way things are going Kei might well choose to stay, Mari will stick by her, Noburi might get married off and Kagome is very much under Mari's sway. I fear if Hazou was to up and leave the only person who wouldn't mind going with him would be Akane. This is not good.
I'd like us to vanish quietly in the night, fall back to fort, do some research/training then come back and steal the scroll. Once we have it we can ask Jiraiya to finish Keiko's summoning education. For all we know, his way doesn't cause depression.
I don't want to involve J with the village unless we absolutely must, and it doesn't feel like we hit that spot yet. But all three of our allies telling lies, harming team members and manipulating us? This is reason enough for me to leave.
Playing politics was fun, loosing is not. Time to change the game.
I don't want us staying in ninjaville, it reeks of non-standart game over. The plan was always to stick around just long enough to grab the scroll, but the way things are going Kei might well choose to stay, Mari will stick by her, Noburi might get married off and Kagome is very much under Mari's sway. I fear if Hazou was to up and leave the only person who wouldn't mind going with him would be Akane. This is not good.
I'd like us to vanish quietly in the night, fall back to fort, do some research/training then come back and steal the scroll. Once we have it we can ask Jiraiya to finish Keiko's summoning education. For all we know, his way doesn't cause depression.
I don't want to involve J with the village unless we absolutely must, and it doesn't feel like we hit that spot yet. But all three of our allies telling lies, harming team members and manipulating us? This is reason enough for me to leave.
Playing politics was fun, loosing is not. Time to change the game.
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- ?
...If we do decide to stick around for more, @Dictator4Hire has the right of it. We gotta do something. At least if we make a mess, it will be our mess, and it will be for everyone to try and fix. So far we benefited least from our presence here.
I'd still prefer to leave. Even if it hurts Kei now, it will only hurt her more in future. This bond between her and Takahashi has to be severed asap.
I'd still prefer to leave. Even if it hurts Kei now, it will only hurt her more in future. This bond between her and Takahashi has to be severed asap.
100% agreed.
But also, Takahashi needs to die.
We can't just leave all of Kei's most intimate secrets lying around.
That would be "set Kei's face on fire" dumb.
If Inoue can convince her that the elders meeting gave her warning bells and that she'd like to confirm no else is getting played, that would be great.
I think we need to send a message to Jaraiya detailing what type of summoning she's been learning as well.
EDIT: If not, maybe Hazou and Akane could go on a little trip to deliver or pass along a message to Jaraiya about summoning basics, length of time spent learning to use it, if there are ways it can be used to hurt users, etc.
We can tell the others we're going to scout out alternate fort locations if Keiko needs to be deceived or something.
Might be good to get Akane away from the fort as well.(After we improve security measures.)
We would have to, after her give away.
I think we need to send a message to Jaraiya detailing what type of summoning she's been learning as well.
EDIT: If not, maybe Hazou and Akane could go on a little trip to deliver or pass along a message to Jaraiya about summoning basics, length of time spent learning to use it, if there are ways it can be used to hurt users, etc.
We can tell the others we're going to scout out alternate fort locations if Keiko needs to be deceived or something.
Might be good to get Akane away from the fort as well.(After we improve security measures.)
We would have to, after her give away.
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Contacting Jiraiya right now would be a mistake.
We'd forfeit the contract for reasons we've already discussed in depth.
We'd forfeit the contract for reasons we've already discussed in depth.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I HATE THIS GODDAMN ARC.
I am not the first one to say this, but uh-oh.
The bad news: Kannagi did plan to cross us.
The good news: He is probably not working with Takahashi, since Takahashi facilitated his true intentions being leaked to us prematurely.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
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Keiko is going bananas.
Because we've gotten tied up, we no longer have the time advantage. Which means we have to force a confrontation/intervention. Have Hazou talk to Inoue, have her (it'll have the biggest impact coming from her) tell Keiko to choose. Inoue (us, the group) or Takahashi (this village).
Either we lose her now, before she turns into more of a liability, or she comes back to us. If she does come back to us, have her tell/show us as much about sealing and/or the sessions as she can before the next session, and have Hazou sub in for her.
We fake a head injury. Talk things up, show that nobu can heal even the brain, but not totally fix damage. 'Keiko' loses some of the past few days/weeks/months so Hazou has an excuse to lean on.
While Keiko is out, Inoue does her best to deprogram her.
Now, if Keiko does choose the village, we let her know how to contact us if she changes her mind, and leave. Staying will only make things worse.
Because we've gotten tied up, we no longer have the time advantage. Which means we have to force a confrontation/intervention. Have Hazou talk to Inoue, have her (it'll have the biggest impact coming from her) tell Keiko to choose. Inoue (us, the group) or Takahashi (this village).
Either we lose her now, before she turns into more of a liability, or she comes back to us. If she does come back to us, have her tell/show us as much about sealing and/or the sessions as she can before the next session, and have Hazou sub in for her.
We fake a head injury. Talk things up, show that nobu can heal even the brain, but not totally fix damage. 'Keiko' loses some of the past few days/weeks/months so Hazou has an excuse to lean on.
While Keiko is out, Inoue does her best to deprogram her.
Now, if Keiko does choose the village, we let her know how to contact us if she changes her mind, and leave. Staying will only make things worse.
I think that we should recount the situation to Inoue, but then let her decide how to approach Keiko. I suspect that giving her a blunt ultimatum like this isn't the best thing that can be done.
And hope desperately that Takahashi doesn't think to check for henge after he is told this story? Because, if he does, we're going to need a new PC.
I'm not fond of Plan Ultimatum in the first place, but if Keiko chooses village, we should treat her as a mind-control victim, grab her, and run.
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- ?
If we're going to ignore Keiko's choice might as well not give her one. Frame it nicer ofc, work through Mari.
Trying to infiltrate Takahashi's lessons is not a good idea, unless it's to kill him. Even then, I'm not sure it's the best option. Sending Mari in at night would be better.
Trying to infiltrate Takahashi's lessons is not a good idea, unless it's to kill him. Even then, I'm not sure it's the best option. Sending Mari in at night would be better.
- Location
- how about no
So here is the agreement Keiko made with Takahashi. Here is what we gain:
- Keiko becomes an apprentice.
- We trade ninjutsu with one clan.
- Keiko becomes more distant towards our team (ABSOLUTELY AWFUL).
- Pledge to not interfere in village politics.
- Pledge to not respond lethally to attacks on our lives.
- Pledge to not reveal the location of this village.
- Pledge to interact with the village primarily through the Takahashi
- Pledge for Keiko to not divulge the specifics of her training to the team and must follow all instruction to the letter.
- The Takahashi are the only ones who get ninjutsu from us.
The status quo has changed: we now have access to more elders to bargain/politik with. The Aida clan will give us a much better deal after we heal Aida Rin eventually. Or we could try working with the Yoshida again since she did give us good info about the council (which is enough to get her off of my shit list but not my "I've got my eye on you" list). The Kannagi are still firmly set on the shit list. Working with the other elders will take some doing since they don't want outside influence in their village, but it is doable. We might even be able to work with the healer clan if we play our cards right, saying we don't want to rock the boat on their medical monopoly or something.
The point is, we have better options than Takahashi; let's use them by acting.
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- Online
[] Proto-Action Plan: Play us, will you?
Mari: "Keiko, you did pretty well for your first time in charge. You did better than I did my first time, hoo boy, remind me to tell you sometime. There were only two real mistakes on your part, and more experience will help. Still, Takahashi has proven that he is not to be trusted, and we're skipping town."
Noburi: Offer Keiko a hug.
All: Yoink the scroll and run. Leave a note explaining that we would have been willing to play nicely if they'd been honest with us, but they have shown themselves to be enemies and it is as enemies they will be treated. Preferably write the note on a wall in Takahashi's blood.
Hazou: Trace the summon scroll. If Jiraiya won't teach Keiko to use it, making a copy and finding another summoning teacher is our backup plan.
?*: Upon reaching Jiriaya, hand in the scroll and a report.
*Keiko if she seems willing to leave without much persuasion, Mari otherwise.
Mari: "Keiko, you did pretty well for your first time in charge. You did better than I did my first time, hoo boy, remind me to tell you sometime. There were only two real mistakes on your part, and more experience will help. Still, Takahashi has proven that he is not to be trusted, and we're skipping town."
Noburi: Offer Keiko a hug.
All: Yoink the scroll and run. Leave a note explaining that we would have been willing to play nicely if they'd been honest with us, but they have shown themselves to be enemies and it is as enemies they will be treated. Preferably write the note on a wall in Takahashi's blood.
Hazou: Trace the summon scroll. If Jiraiya won't teach Keiko to use it, making a copy and finding another summoning teacher is our backup plan.
?*: Upon reaching Jiriaya, hand in the scroll and a report.
*Keiko if she seems willing to leave without much persuasion, Mari otherwise.
There's also the option of killing everyone else and taking Takahashi's family hostage, forcing him to complete Keiko's training on our terms.
That said, maybe we shouldn't attribute to malice that which can be attributed to Keiko being Keiko. Noting that Takahashi did sabotage Kannagi by letting Inoue into the meeting, maybe he is operating in good faith, not doing anything particular, but Keiko is just falling in line with his mannerisms and such because he is an authority figure and she is spending a lot of her time with him. For example, it is natural for Takahashi to say "Do not speak of this with outsiders", because we are outsiders to him, and then Keiko repeats his words. It might be worth having a little discussion with her to see if this is the case. (The good news is that her Deception is still pretty darned low, unless Takahashi has been teaching her that.)
Also, another mitigating factor for Keiko: if she tells us anything Takahashi has forbidden her to talk about, and Takahashi asks her if she had the next day, she doesn't have the Deception to lie to him about it, and she knows it.