Look guys, I have a swamp to drain and no spoons to drain it with. Kinda need to borrow from the QMs here :p

But in all seriousness, I was wanting the next Action Plan to include scenes where we do reading on chemistry/physics/etc. and get an idea of the tech level (so that we can make our own advancements), and decided to ask the GMs first to see if I could skip the middleman.
 
Look guys, I have a swamp to drain and no spoons to drain it with. Kinda need to borrow from the QMs here :p

But in all seriousness, I was wanting the next Action Plan to include scenes where we do reading on chemistry/physics/etc. and get an idea of the tech level (so that we can make our own advancements), and decided to ask the GMs first to see if I could skip the middleman.
We've been setting it in (very roughly) 12th century Japan. A couple of anachronisms have crept in but we've tried to stick closely to that. Feel free to do research on what was available in that time period; it's probably a safe assumption that anything that was known then will be known in MfD. There might be some exceptions but it's a good foundation.

Can you see the empty bottom on that spoon drawer?:V
The funny part is that I borrowed this drawer from Alanis Morissette.
 
The law isn't "you can't sell the stuff" it's "you can't use the stuff for commerce-related purposes." The Akimichi can't use jutsu in their restaurant, etc. So, yes, seals would need to be approved.
So then... wouldn't we still be able to sell explosive/storage seals to other ninja?

e: To clarify, this would be using Jiraiya's storage seals as transcribed by Iron Nerve.
 
We've been setting it in (very roughly) 12th century Japan. A couple of anachronisms have crept in but we've tried to stick closely to that. Feel free to do research on what was available in that time period; it's probably a safe assumption that anything that was known then will be known in MfD. There might be some exceptions but it's a good foundation.
So can I assume that it would also bear resemblance to Chinese technology? Because I can't seem to find anything on Japan but do know that China and Japan traded up until the 9th century, and then resumed trade in the 13th.

Or am I being too crazy about this, and can assume that Japan advanced at roughly the same time as everyone else on Earth?
 
So then... wouldn't we still be able to sell explosive/storage seals to other ninja?

e: To clarify, this would be using Jiraiya's storage seals as transcribed by Iron Nerve.
We should be able to. We need a sealing license but Jiraiya should be able to certify us. The Merchant Council shouldn't be involved in that.
 
So can I assume that it would also bear resemblance to Chinese technology? Because I can't seem to find anything on Japan but do know that China and Japan traded up until the 9th century, and then resumed trade in the 13th.

Or am I being too crazy about this, and can assume that Japan advanced at roughly the same time as everyone else on Earth?
At the risk of revealing my cis-gendered straight white American male SJW special snowflake libtardness, go ahead and assume that "tech from somewhere in 12th century Asia" is a reasonable point to start from.
 
Hazou nodded. "There's one more thing," he said. "Seals. If I see a seal, I can reproduce the blank perfectly, every time. Here." He held out a sheet of paper with a design on it. "This is a copy of the seal on your storage scroll--the one with the red stamp. I didn't have any chakra ink so it's just the design, but if that had been done with appropriate tools a seal master could turn it into a proper seal in under a minute."


Inoue blinked. "Is this a joke?" she said.


Hazou shook his head. "No. We don't talk about it, but didn't you ever wonder why the Kurosawas have had at least one seal master in every generation?"


"Hadn't really thought about it, to be honest," Inoue said. "Which, in retrospect, was a mistake. That's statistically improbable. Why is this a secret? Why aren't you all rolling in money and living the luxury life?"


"It's...complicated," Hazou said. "Do you know our family motto?"


"'By darkness unmoved," Inoue quoted. "I never quite understood it."


"It means we hold the line," Hazou said. "My family have been ninja of the Mist since the village was founded. Before that, we were hilltop daimyo for as far back as our family records go. We have always been warriors, and we have always believed that it is our duty to stand at the edge of civilization's light and keep out the darkness that threatens it. We didn't want that taken away from us when we joined Mist. If we made it known that we could produce dozens of seals an hour, the logical thing for the village to do would have been to keep us locked up and guarded, constantly cranking out seals for the use of other people. We would have been taken off the line."


Inoue thought about that. "It could be argued that that would have been a better way to hold the line," she said carefully. "That you would have done more for the fight that way."


Hazou shrugged. "I never said we were logical, just dedicated."
I'd like to remind people of this since it is becoming relevant.
 
At the risk of revealing my cis-gendered straight white American male SJW special snowflake libtardness, go ahead and assume that "tech from somewhere in 12th century Asia" is a reasonable point to start from.
Oh cool so we have gunpowder then LETS MAKE GUNS BOYS

Edit: Also, smallpox vaccines. From eating the scabs.
 
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Oh cool so we have gunpowder then LETS MAKE GUNS BOYS
First it was fire rockets, but it takes a hell of a step to go from "cool, self burning arrows" to "lets stuff this shit down a tube, throw a rock in it, see what happens". Guns are a hard problem.
Edit: What the hell am I droning on about, let's do this shit.
 
Oh cool so we have gunpowder then LETS MAKE GUNS BOYS
First it was fire rockets, but it takes a hell of a step to go from "cool, self burning arrows" to "lets stuff this shit down a tube, throw a rock in it, see what happens". Guns are a hard problem.
Edit: What the hell am I droning on about, let's do this shit.
I think Ninja and sealing would have stunted weapons development in that area. We should be able to get gunpowder from fireworks though. We could also develop GLOCKs
"GLOCK: Genin Level Objects Can Kill. There's a reusable explosive seal in the back, here"— he pointed to the corner of the L —"and we put these metal rounds inside which have their own second pressure-based autonomous propellant inside them based off of directional explosives with the explosives removed. We just call them Directionals. Press the button here and you get a projectile accelerating off faster than you can see wherever you pointed it. Land a hit and either it splatters all the way through or starts careening through their insides tearing up their organs.
 
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First it was fire rockets, but it takes a hell of a step to go from "cool, self burning arrows" to "lets stuff this shit down a tube, throw a rock in it, see what happens". Guns are a hard problem.
Edit: What the hell am I droning on about, let's do this shit.
wikipedia said:
Although the destructive effects of gunpowder were described in the earlier Tang dynasty by a Daoist alchemist, the earliest-known existent written formulas for gunpowder come from the Wujing Zongyao text of 1044, which described explosive bombs hurled from catapults.[51] The earliest developments of the gun barrel and the projectile-fire cannon were found in late Song China. The first art depiction of the Chinese 'fire lance' (a combination of a temporary-fire flamethrower and gun) was from a Buddhist mural painting of Dunhuang, dated circa 950.[52] These 'fire-lances' were widespread in use by the early 12th century, featuring hollowed bamboo poles as tubes to fire sand particles (to blind and choke), lead pellets, bits of sharp metal and pottery shards, and finally large gunpowder-propelled arrows and rocket weaponry.[53] Eventually, perishable bamboo was replaced with hollow tubes of cast iron, and so too did the terminology of this new weapon change, from 'fire-spear' ('huo qiang') to 'fire-tube' ('huo tong').[54] This ancestor to the gun was complemented by the ancestor to the cannon, what the Chinese referred to since the 13th century as the 'multiple bullets magazine erupter' ('bai zu lian zhu pao'), a tube of bronze or cast iron that was filled with about 100 lead balls.[55] In 1132, at the Siege of De'an, Song Chinese forces used fire lances against the rival Jurchen-led Jin dynasty.[56]
Science and technology of the Song dynasty - Wikipedia
 

Do note that the Song dynasty is known for producing prodigious amount of iron(at least until the industrial era) and using so much charcoal that they had to switch to coal. I am not seeing any evidence of that in the elemental nations. For one, the EN is way too small and many part of the lands are infested by chakra monsters.

Gunpowder weapon would be a good idea for civilians if nothing else, but we probably lack the metallurgy to make useful one. We'll need to sponsor an alchemist or a smith, and that is on top of sponsoring a telescope maker.

Anyway, we can't directly interfere in the normal economy using ninja magic, but we can use ninja magic to study metallurgy and forces of nature to come up with mundane inventions and discoveries, like electricity.

One great candidate we could do is a phonograph, which is conceptually simple enough, but required several leaps for Hazō to make.
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail If we used our magical ninja powers to make materials for personal use would that be disallowed under the Merchant Council? Like would we be allowed to make our own paper using ninja magic if we had the time/tools available to us?

I know it sounds stupid but I just wanna be sure.
 
We could make all the ninja clan pay a higher tax bracket and redistribute the revenue to purely civilian families?
 
Here's how I understand it to work: whenever Hazou researches a seal, regardless of whether it's from scratch, with another seal master's help, or from a copy of a seal, he makes it from the ground up in his own sealing language. This leads me to believe none of Hazou's seals are identical to Jiraiya's or Kagome's. The only instance of similar seals among separate seal masters we've seen was in Hidden Mountain, an outlier due to deriving all of their sealing knowledge from 1 source.
I'm not sure where you are getting this from. There are different schools of sealing with different styles but there aren't personal individual sealing languages. Hidden Mountain was noticeable because all their seals used the exact same sealing style whereas most seal masters are familiar with different schools and approaches.
 
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Edit: Also, smallpox vaccines. From eating the scabs.
Wikipedia said:
The first clear and credible reference to smallpox inoculation in China comes from Wan Quan's (1499–1582)

On the other hand, a lot of the false leads that hindered vaccine development aren't plausible given ninja powers. According to Angel of Death (by Gareth Williams, MD):
  • The primary opponents of vaccination were miasma theory, which held that disease was caused by bad air. The is immediately falsified by the first sealmaster who tried weaponizing it and having no success.
  • Natural healers thought that smallpox was the natural elimination of wastes through the skin. This is immediately falsified by stinking stinker eyes that can see that individuals who fell ill had normal levels of waste immediately prior.
  • Humorism is similarly defeated.
If we're using 12th-century Asia as our average point, I would expect medicine to be relatively advanced, largely because of the ability of dojutsu to be more-or-less an MRI and falsify a bunch of theories that sound plausible as long as you can't see inside a living body in real time.

Of course, to maintain the average tech level, something else—perhaps chemistry?—would have to be equally set back.
 
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@bayesclef That's fascinating because I'm also looking on Wikipedia and it says that earliest signs of inoculation came from the 10th century; this is backed by a brief Google search.

Meh, it's mostly irrelevant. We can always make this shit work if it hasn't been invented yet.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Are there any diseases in MfD we should be aware about? Are they all the same as in the real world, or are there chakra-enhanced monster diseases like deathpox (lol)?
 
On Hazou's ability to perfectly copy seal blanks he sees.
Think of it as though every seal is a fundamental constant of the universe. Research allows you to discover the value of that constant (i.e., the design of the seal), at which point you can use it. (Note that this is only an analogy, so please don't try to push it too far by applying principles of real world physics. Chakra does not work like physics.)
I think the QMs need to talk to each other and decide how seals actually work.
 
Oh cool so we have gunpowder then LETS MAKE GUNS BOYS
I have very conflicted feelings towards Kishimoto. On the one hand, he created an amazing setting and fascinating characters. On the other, he created this massive knot of insanity with messed up timelines, illogical character actions, dopey story drivers, and plot holes that a drunk redneck could fly the Death Star through. I say this so that you will fully understand my internal conflict when I say the following:

I totally agree with Kishimoto that there is no gunpowder in ninjaworld.


...and then I remember that I am not sole author on this thing and I should probably rephrase that: gunpowder, if it exists at all, is not a well-known and commonplace thing in ninjaworld.

@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail If we used our magical ninja powers to make materials for personal use would that be disallowed under the Merchant Council? Like would we be allowed to make our own paper using ninja magic if we had the time/tools available to us?

I know it sounds stupid but I just wanna be sure.
If you make macerators and use them to shoot Zombie Zabuza in the face then everyone in Leaf will cheer you on. If you make macerators and use them to make paper which you then sell in Leaf then you'll have papermakers screaming to the Council so fast the speed of light will have to redefine itself to catch up. If you make macerators and use them to make paper which you then sell in (e.g.) Hot Springs then everyone will most likely look the other way as long as the general demand for paper in Leaf remains constant and no one's cost/benefit analysis comes up positive on the "get stuff from the Hokage for not raising a complaint / risk having him disappear me into the bellies of three different toads."

Thanks for answering all those questions. I guess selling directly to the military is a bust, too?
I need to talk to the others about that.

Here's how I understand it to work: whenever Hazou researches a seal, regardless of whether it's from scratch, with another seal master's help, or from a copy of a seal, he makes it from the ground up in his own sealing language. This leads me to believe none of Hazou's seals are identical to Jiraiya's or Kagome's. The only instance of similar seals among separate seal masters we've seen was in Hidden Mountain, an outlier due to deriving all of their sealing knowledge from 1 source.

I'm not sure where you are getting this from. There are different schools of sealing with different styles but there aren't personal individual sealing languages. Hidden Mountain was noticeable because all their seals used the exact same sealing style whereas most seal masters are familiar with different schools and approaches.
Actually, @1234qwerty has it exactly right.
 
I have very conflicted feelings towards Kishimoto. On the one hand, he created an amazing setting and fascinating characters. On the other, he created this massive knot of insanity with messed up timelines, illogical character actions, dopey story drivers, and plot holes that a drunk redneck could fly the Death Star through. I say this so that you will fully understand my internal conflict when I say the following:

I totally agree with Kishimoto that there is no gunpowder in ninjaworld.


...and then I remember that I am not sole author on this thing and I should probably rephrase that: gunpowder, if it exists at all, is not a well-known and commonplace thing in ninjaworld.

And we don't need gunpowder to make guns anyways. We can make guns using modified storage seals - really, maybe we should get on that so we can do things like kill jonin at range.

A Macerator shotgun should be easy, just need to increase the release velocity enough to turn enemies into chunky salsa at short to mid-range.

A proper longer range 'rifle' should be possible too. Just make a storage seal that releases a single object at high velocity and adds spin to increase accuracy. Get the velocity high enough and you've got something that can kill flying enemies at a distance, solving that problem.

Maybe add the ability to store multiple objects and release in serial (first in first our or last in last out are both acceptable) so you get semi-automatic fire for both of them.

Both may require mounting on something with a handle and some way to be sure we can easily fire and reload on demand so they can be a proper weapon to be used in combat, but we've got enough experts in Leaf that we could figure that out.
 
I think the QMs need to talk to each other and decide how seals actually work.
I'm not sure what's inconsistent here...? Every seal is unique. "The seal" is not the same thing as "the seal blank". Having the seal blank helps you discover the actual seal, much the way that a map to Mount Plotpoint will help you find the actual mountain. The map is not the mountain, the blank is not the seal, and what you call an Air Dome seal is not the same seal that Kagome calls an Air Dome seal, despite the fact that they perform identically. (Your Air Dome and his Air Dome are equal? but not eq? if you're a LISP nerd and == but not === if you're a Javascript wonk.[1]​)


[1] Yes, seals are primitives. ​
 
I'm not sure what's inconsistent here...? Every seal is unique. "The seal" is not the same thing as "the seal blank". Having the seal blank helps you discover the actual seal, much the way that a map to Mount Plotpoint will help you find the actual mountain. The map is not the mountain, the blank is not the seal, and what you call an Air Dome seal is not the same seal that Kagome calls an Air Dome seal, despite the fact that they perform identically. (Your Air Dome and his Air Dome are equal? but not eq? if you're a LISP nerd and == but not === if you're a Javascript wonk.[1]​)


[1] Yes, seals are primitives. ​

This is very confusing, sir. This seal thing.
 
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