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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Vecht said:
Are you confirming the existence of cosmic beings in MFD?
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WIDTFY?

sylvan_secrets said:
Hi guys, I'm new here, so please alert me if I do anthing against etiqutte / blatantly wrong / set face on fire stupid.
(Also I would like to participate more often, because this seems like great fun).
So the macerator seals can go up to 20% air.
Softwood have a density of about 500kg/m^3 or 0.5g/cm^3.
Glucose has a density of about 1.5g/cm^3.
So we assume softwood is about 1/3 the density of glucose, and probably releases the same amount of energy.
Glucose is 180g/mol.
If the macerator has 1cm^3 of wood, it would be equivalent to:
(0.5g/ cm^3 wood)(1 wood / 3 glucose)(1 mol glucose / 180 g) = 1/1080 mol glucose
Each mol of glucose requires 6 mol of O2 to burn.
We would thus need 1/180 mol of O2, or 5/180 mol of air.
Air at STP is 24000 cm^3 / mol, so we need about 2000/3 cm^3 of air, but we only have 1/5 cm^3 of space.
1MPa is about 10atm.
We need (1/5)/(2000/3) = 10000/3 atm, which comes to about 333MPa, while we can only do... 60MPa?
So it seems that just the contents of the macerator seal does not allow us to completely burn the wood dust.
So the question is, does the 60MPa aeration impart enough force to disperse the wood so that it reaches enough air?
The math is a bit beyond me here, although since it only has to expand the wood-dust-cloud to (10000/3)^(1/3) =~ 14x in every direction, I would hazard that you would get a glorious fireball.
(Consider that truck tires are at about 1/3 MPa, and can blow objects pretty far from the tire itself)
Additionally, each cm^3 of wood, being 0.5g glucose, would release 2kcal or around 8000J of detonation energy. Even with macerator air limit, it would release 8000/5 = 1600J.
For comparison, TNT has density of 1.65g/cm^3, and releases 4000J/g, for 6600J of detonation energy.
So we have at worst, an explosive with 1/4 the yield of TNT (up to 1.2x the yield of TNT). In a storage seal.
Put some metal scrap in it.

The M67 grenade uses 160g of Composition B, and has a kill radius of 5m. Composition B is (8050/6900) =~ 7/6 as strong as TNT.
We are 1/4 as strong, so about 7/24 as strong as Composition B.
At 160g of storage, we can get (7/24)^(1/2)*5 =~ 2.7m of kill range
At 1kg of storage, we can get (7*(1000/160)/24)^(1/2)*5 =~ 6.7m
At 10kg of storage, we can get 21.3m
At 100kg, 67.5m
At 1t, 213m
This sounds wrong. A bit too OP. Dodging 60m seems too hard for something you can just throw attached to a kunai.
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New player!

...whose first post is calculating explosives. *head in hands*

Welcome. You'll fit in fine. :>
 
OliWhail said:
There are three advisory councils to the Hokage, who retains ultimate dictatorial authority.
  • The Merchant Council is made up of business owners and those responsible for the city's services, and is largely made up of civilians (though since clans often run businesses, there are ninja representatives as well).
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Could we have more information regarding the Merchant Council? Specifically I would like to know:
  • What major factions are in the Merchant Councils, and what goods are they responsible for?
  • What ninja representatives are also present? Are there any representatives that also have seats on the Clan/War Councils (e.g., Yamanaka clan)?
  • What rights does the Merchant Council have?
  • How much power does the Merchant Council as a whole have relative to other Councils?
 
faflec said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Could we have more information regarding the Merchant Council? Specifically I would like to know:
  • What major factions are in the Merchant Councils, and what goods are they responsible for?
  • What ninja representatives are also present? Are there any representatives that also have seats on the Clan/War Councils (e.g., Yamanaka clan)?
  • What rights does the Merchant Council have?
  • How much power does the Merchant Council as a whole have relative to other Councils?
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Let me take a guess:

  • The book industry, because of all the god damn books in Konohagakure.
  • The Ninja Gear Guilds, because someone need to make all the weapons and armors that ninja uses.
  • Clans like the Yamanka who sells flower as a side business.
  • Merchant Council's rights are pretty much about "getting listened" to.
  • They have a lot of power since they are responsible for the city's infrastructure.
 
sylvan_secrets said:
Hi guys, I'm new here, so please alert me if I do anthing against etiqutte / blatantly wrong / set face on fire stupid.
(Also I would like to participate more often, because this seems like great fun).
So the macerator seals can go up to 20% air.
Softwood have a density of about 500kg/m^3 or 0.5g/cm^3.
Glucose has a density of about 1.5g/cm^3.
So we assume softwood is about 1/3 the density of glucose, and probably releases the same amount of energy.
Glucose is 180g/mol.
If the macerator has 1cm^3 of wood, it would be equivalent to:
(0.5g/ cm^3 wood)(1 wood / 3 glucose)(1 mol glucose / 180 g) = 1/1080 mol glucose
Each mol of glucose requires 6 mol of O2 to burn.
We would thus need 1/180 mol of O2, or 5/180 mol of air.
Air at STP is 24000 cm^3 / mol, so we need about 2000/3 cm^3 of air, but we only have 1/5 cm^3 of space.
1MPa is about 10atm.
We need (1/5)/(2000/3) = 10000/3 atm, which comes to about 333MPa, while we can only do... 60MPa?
So it seems that just the contents of the macerator seal does not allow us to completely burn the wood dust.
So the question is, does the 60MPa aeration impart enough force to disperse the wood so that it reaches enough air?
The math is a bit beyond me here, although since it only has to expand the wood-dust-cloud to (10000/3)^(1/3) =~ 14x in every direction, I would hazard that you would get a glorious fireball.
(Consider that truck tires are at about 1/3 MPa, and can blow objects pretty far from the tire itself)
Additionally, each cm^3 of wood, being 0.5g glucose, would release 2kcal or around 8000J of detonation energy. Even with macerator air limit, it would release 8000/5 = 1600J.
For comparison, TNT has density of 1.65g/cm^3, and releases 4000J/g, for 6600J of detonation energy.
So we have at worst, an explosive with 1/4 the yield of TNT (up to 1.2x the yield of TNT). In a storage seal.
Put some metal scrap in it.

The M67 grenade uses 160g of Composition B, and has a kill radius of 5m. Composition B is (8050/6900) =~ 7/6 as strong as TNT.
We are 1/4 as strong, so about 7/24 as strong as Composition B.
At 160g of storage, we can get (7/24)^(1/2)*5 =~ 2.7m of kill range
At 1kg of storage, we can get (7*(1000/160)/24)^(1/2)*5 =~ 6.7m
At 10kg of storage, we can get 21.3m
At 100kg, 67.5m
At 1t, 213m
This sounds wrong. A bit too OP. Dodging 60m seems too hard for something you can just throw attached to a kunai.
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The majority of this seems correct re: ability to create a fireball. I had been hung up on the idea that it wouldn't catch because it wasn't at the optimal ratio when unsealed, but it seems more likely that it'll just be a slow burn, reaching inferno status a couple seconds later.

I think the kill radius calculations are off though. The coal-macerator will be releasing it's energy in the form of heat, but grenades release their energy in the form of shockwaves and shrapnel. I think the appropriate way to calculate the damage a coal macerator does is probably to calculate the volume of air consumed in the fire, and assume that's the kill area. Correcting for that should scale down your kill radius substantially. Also, ninja should be able to dodge with substitution or high tac move dodging, because it'll take a couple seconds to catch fire properly, and so should be able to escape if they see it coming.

Also, welcome! Always exciting to have new posters. Especially posters who post explosives maths.
 
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faflec said:
I really hope this means "Inoichi doesn't like the way you flirted with his daughter" and not "Inoichi doesn't like your ideals of uplifiting civilians and trying to convert his daughter to said ideals".
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Does he mean the team, or just Hazō?

Maybe he doesn't like Mari-sensei either, and she marrying Jiraiya would be even worse.
 
faflec said:
I really hope this means "Inoichi doesn't like the way you flirted with his daughter" and not "Inoichi doesn't like your ideals of uplifiting civilians and trying to convert his daughter to said ideals".
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We didn't even talk about "uplift" so much IIRC, as just making their lives a bit less shitty. If Inoichi considers that a bad influence then he's a colossal dick.
 
What happens if you fill macerators with lye?
It's pretty easy to make (limestone + heat + water + heat + washing soda)
Is it just a more permanent blindness inducing payload than peppers?
It even plays well with Noburi's airborne water, speeding up the corrosion of caught persons.

On the other hand, susceptible to wind jutsus (and backfiring). Unless you bombard your enemies from up high. In which case... hooray, chemical warfare.


v2:
Quicklime also causes blindness, and can be simply be made by heating limestone, with CO2 as a by product.
We can collect the CO2 with Tunneler's Friend*, and release it later as a poor-man's poison gas cloud.



* Tunneler's Friend has 30 breath points at 1 per minute. Humans breathe about 7L per minute, and thus it stores 2100L of air or 2.1 m^3. Maybe a few thousand will be good enough to wipe out a town/deployment without them noticing, but they are individually not great.
 
Radvic said:
The majority of this seems correct re: ability to create a fireball. I had been hung up on the idea that it wouldn't catch because it wasn't at the optimal ratio when unsealed, but it seems more likely that it'll just be a slow burn, reaching inferno status a couple seconds later.

I think the kill radius calculations are off though. The coal-macerator will be releasing it's energy in the form of heat, but grenades release their energy in the form of shockwaves and shrapnel. I think the appropriate way to calculate the damage a coal macerator does is probably to calculate the volume of air consumed in the fire, and assume that's the kill area. Correcting for that should scale down your kill radius substantially. Also, ninja should be able to dodge with substitution or high tac move dodging, because it'll take a couple seconds to catch fire properly, and so should be able to escape if they see it coming.

Also, welcome! Always exciting to have new posters. Especially posters who post explosives maths.
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Hmm... that does make sense.
Although I wonder how shockwaves from thermobaric bombs differ from that of grenades.

So we still have 180g/mol for glucose, and assume that wood is made of less-dense-and-less-delicious sugar.
Each mol of glucose burned consumes 6 mol O2, which in turn is 30 mol of air (because O2 is only 20% of the air).
At STP, each mol of wood would take up 22.4*30 = 672 L of air.

Wood, in kg Oxygen deprivation radius, in m
0.180 5.43
1.00 9.62
10.0 20.7
100 44.7
(The above assumes a sphere for airburst. Actual numbers may increase for ground level use, up to 2^(1/3). Actual numbers may be less, due to the air being consumed unevenly. Air from inside the seal assumed to displace normal air and thus not affect the radius.)
 
Cariyaga said:
Particularly if the sniper hyuuga had techniques that would make it easier to ignore wind conditions. Or, you know, the sniper rifle I described. :D
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... Can the Hyuuga see air? Like, wind currents?

huhYeahGoodPoint said:
Replace all mentions of WMDs with [x]BUY A YOUTHSUIT!
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So I found that if we take just ten [x]BUY A YOUTHSUIT! and stick them [x]BUY A YOUTHSUIT!, then use [x]BUY A YOUTHSUIT! jutsu on it, it'll create a [x]BUY A YOUTHSUIT! that is [x]BUY A YOUTHSUIT! big.

Jashin Christ, we can't tell Jiraiya about that.
 
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