- Location
- Yes.
I was under the impression this implies Agent Black would tell them? Or do you think it would mean Jiraiya would tell Agent Black to tell Inoichi that Agent Black did the mindscan when we talk/convince them?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Keiko works best when you give her an okay-quality but creative piece to improve upon. That's what we should be aiming to give her wrt c/b a.
@Cariyaga That's why we're taking a Lore Update, no?
Random note: On the origin of the Kurosawa bloodline, it wasn't some breeding program enacted by Mist. The Kurosawa bloodline was the result of a Uchiha taking a non-Uchiha lover, just like Kurosawa Hana giving her hand in marriage to Hazō's father.
Just like Hazō and his team preparing to join Leaf. Just like that his girlfriend is not a Kurosawa.
Random note: On the origin of the Kurosawa bloodline, it wasn't some breeding program enacted by Mist. The Kurosawa bloodline was the result of a Uchiha taking a non-Uchiha lover, just like Kurosawa Hana giving her hand in marriage to Hazō's father.
Just like Hazō and his team preparing to join Leaf. Just like that his girlfriend is not a Kurosawa.
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- Location
- how about no
Here's some relevant quotes I found after a preliminary search. There's probably more in the earliest sections of the thread if you're really interested. Like I said, it may not be canon in MfD since we've had that lore update, but there is still a chance.
There's also a mention of how Hazō's mother die but that was never made canon.
It's like we're in an alternate branch of the MfD quest multiverse, or something. Maybe that version of Hazō don't have the bloodline quirk.
Chapter 116.3: Wot Bwings Us Togevah
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
So, in a continuing trend of characters reacting to incentives the QMs had failed to consider initially, I give you the following scene:
Sarutobi Hiruzen's doors were shoved open. "Sensei, we need to talk," Jiraiya proclaimed. "Privately."
"Hm? What's going on, Jiraiya?" Hiruzen inquired, setting down the most recent scout reports from the Hot Springs border.
His student didn't reply immediately, instead making a tour of the room to activate the various privacy seals scattered around. He then turned to the ANBU standing unobtrusively in the corner. "Out! Tango-delta-Charlie-Romeo-47." The young woman nodded and scampered away immediately.
"Jiraiya, what in the world is going on?" Hiruzen asked again, much more seriously.
"I'm getting married, sensei."
It was all Hiruzen could do to snap his jaw shut rather than letting it hang open. Even having heard Jiraiya give his security code not ten seconds ago, Hiruzen seriously considered attacking the man in front of him as an impostor, and a poor one at that. Of course, an impostor skilled enough to get that code would have been skilled enough to say something more believable, unless they were deliberately saying something as shocking as possible to throw him off-balance, etc, etc, etc....
Hiruzen considered all of this in a fraction of a second, which culminated in a short and deeply skeptical "Oh?"
Jiraiya nodded resolutely. "To Inoue Mari."
Hiruzen reflexively dispelled, and then blinked several times as the world around him completely failed to dissolve. "...come again?" he said eventually.
"Team Mari reported in. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse, which included my marriage to their jounin-sensei for the purpose of founding a new clan."
"...you're going to need to give me a little more explanation than that," Hiruzen said carefully. "Substantially more, in fact. What could they have possibly offered you that would be worth giving up the independence you've sought to maintain for so long? Not to mention having to deal with all the political squabbling needed to keep the clans from heavily resisting, or even openly rebelling when they hear you're planning on forming a clan with a bunch of missing nin--"
"One, once they're in a clan, they won't be missing nin anymore," Jiraiya cut in. "They'd be Leaf. They'd be ours. Two, she cares about as much about the whole monogamy thing as I do. Three, remember that this is the group who came up with the skytowers. The seal they're offering this time is an order of magnitude more important."
Hiruzen sighed. "Jiraiya, I worry you may be letting your enthusiasm for fuinjutsu cloud your judgement somewhat."
"They call them 'skywalkers'. Seals that let you run on thin air."
*Blink. Blink.* "...come again?" Hiruzen said, again, caught completely off-guard for the second time in as many minutes.
"They ran from Snow to the island west of Sea without ever touching the ground or being spotted by anyone, including our airborne scouts. Think about it, sensei. Avoid any and all patrols, no dealing with chakra beasts, staying out of unfavorable combat, flexible high-altitude bombing, keeping skytowers perpetually supplied with no way for enemies to reach them. This changes everything."
"You've seen these for yourself?"
Jiraiy nodded decisively. "And had Agent Black verify that the operational specs they gave me were honest."
"That's... certainly impressive," Hiruzen admitted, his head spinning. With a tool like that, the war on the horizon looked... significantly less frightening, to put it mildly. "I can't say that I see why this means you need to found a clan with a missing nin woman, though."
"It was one of their conditions. That, and adopting all the genin into it. I don't think they actually said anything about letting Kagome in, but hell with it, he should probably get at least honorary membership. He did all the real work, it sounds like. Hazou - the Kurosawa kid - just came up with the idea."
"It may have been one of their conditions, but surely you didn't have to accept their very first offer? Has the great diplomat forgotten how to negotiate?"
"Why wouldn't I?" Jiraiya asked. "They need a clan to keep their bloodline secrets and seal research safe. I need a clan to pass on knowledge and training to, to protect any heirs from interference by other clans, and to stop the endless lectures about how I don't understand the importance of family," he said, finishing with more than a twinge of bitterness. "None of us can join established clans. Inoue Mari is hot and compatible in terms of personality. Mori is the Pangolin summoner, so Leaf gets that extra firepower. Kurosawa is apparently some kind of Sealing prodigy who could both benefit from and contribute to my own work. Kagome is an accomplished sealmaster, and Leaf could always use more of those. Wakahisa is a budding medic. Realistically, I'm not going to get a better opportunity to found my own clan and shake up the conservative bloc. And to top it all off, I get to tell all the pricks on Councils who gave me shit for being soft on Team Mari to suck it."
Hiruzen was silent for a long minute, lighting his pipe and taking occasional contemplative puffs. "Fine," he said eventually. "If this is what you feel is best for Leaf and for your own happiness, then I am inclined to at least hear you out. After all, having a more progressive voice on the Clan Council can only be helpful, and frankly I can't wait to see Hiashi's face when he finds out. Now, obviously this can't become public until after the war has started. Or ended, as the case may be, thanks to these 'skywalkers'. Tell Kiyoshi to cancel my appointments for the rest of the day -- we will need to hash out a strategy for getting as many clans to go along with this without a fuss as we can manage.
"Tangentially, the Kurosawa boy seems... interesting. Once might be chance. Twice is, at the very least, a coincidence worth looking into."
"According to Agent Black, it's sounding like a lot more than twice, but I'd like to see a couple of the other ideas in action before I bank on them."
"As I said, interesting," Hiruzen replied, chewing his pipe contemplatively. "Very interesting. In any case, let's get to work. The place to start, I think, would be the Nara...."
Agent Black and Mari-sensei spent several long minutes staring at one another before Agent Black confirmed that you guys weren't bullshitting.
Other important info re: clans and Leaf government:
Chapter 116.3: Wot Bwings Us Togevah
Sarutobi Hiruzen's doors were shoved open. "Sensei, we need to talk," Jiraiya proclaimed. "Privately."
"Hm? What's going on, Jiraiya?" Hiruzen inquired, setting down the most recent scout reports from the Hot Springs border.
His student didn't reply immediately, instead making a tour of the room to activate the various privacy seals scattered around. He then turned to the ANBU standing unobtrusively in the corner. "Out! Tango-delta-Charlie-Romeo-47." The young woman nodded and scampered away immediately.
"Jiraiya, what in the world is going on?" Hiruzen asked again, much more seriously.
"I'm getting married, sensei."
It was all Hiruzen could do to snap his jaw shut rather than letting it hang open. Even having heard Jiraiya give his security code not ten seconds ago, Hiruzen seriously considered attacking the man in front of him as an impostor, and a poor one at that. Of course, an impostor skilled enough to get that code would have been skilled enough to say something more believable, unless they were deliberately saying something as shocking as possible to throw him off-balance, etc, etc, etc....
Hiruzen considered all of this in a fraction of a second, which culminated in a short and deeply skeptical "Oh?"
Jiraiya nodded resolutely. "To Inoue Mari."
Hiruzen reflexively dispelled, and then blinked several times as the world around him completely failed to dissolve. "...come again?" he said eventually.
"Team Mari reported in. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse, which included my marriage to their jounin-sensei for the purpose of founding a new clan."
"...you're going to need to give me a little more explanation than that," Hiruzen said carefully. "Substantially more, in fact. What could they have possibly offered you that would be worth giving up the independence you've sought to maintain for so long? Not to mention having to deal with all the political squabbling needed to keep the clans from heavily resisting, or even openly rebelling when they hear you're planning on forming a clan with a bunch of missing nin--"
"One, once they're in a clan, they won't be missing nin anymore," Jiraiya cut in. "They'd be Leaf. They'd be ours. Two, she cares about as much about the whole monogamy thing as I do. Three, remember that this is the group who came up with the skytowers. The seal they're offering this time is an order of magnitude more important."
Hiruzen sighed. "Jiraiya, I worry you may be letting your enthusiasm for fuinjutsu cloud your judgement somewhat."
"They call them 'skywalkers'. Seals that let you run on thin air."
*Blink. Blink.* "...come again?" Hiruzen said, again, caught completely off-guard for the second time in as many minutes.
"They ran from Snow to the island west of Sea without ever touching the ground or being spotted by anyone, including our airborne scouts. Think about it, sensei. Avoid any and all patrols, no dealing with chakra beasts, staying out of unfavorable combat, flexible high-altitude bombing, keeping skytowers perpetually supplied with no way for enemies to reach them. This changes everything."
"You've seen these for yourself?"
Jiraiy nodded decisively. "And had Agent Black verify that the operational specs they gave me were honest."
"That's... certainly impressive," Hiruzen admitted, his head spinning. With a tool like that, the war on the horizon looked... significantly less frightening, to put it mildly. "I can't say that I see why this means you need to found a clan with a missing nin woman, though."
"It was one of their conditions. That, and adopting all the genin into it. I don't think they actually said anything about letting Kagome in, but hell with it, he should probably get at least honorary membership. He did all the real work, it sounds like. Hazou - the Kurosawa kid - just came up with the idea."
"It may have been one of their conditions, but surely you didn't have to accept their very first offer? Has the great diplomat forgotten how to negotiate?"
"Why wouldn't I?" Jiraiya asked. "They need a clan to keep their bloodline secrets and seal research safe. I need a clan to pass on knowledge and training to, to protect any heirs from interference by other clans, and to stop the endless lectures about how I don't understand the importance of family," he said, finishing with more than a twinge of bitterness. "None of us can join established clans. Inoue Mari is hot and compatible in terms of personality. Mori is the Pangolin summoner, so Leaf gets that extra firepower. Kurosawa is apparently some kind of Sealing prodigy who could both benefit from and contribute to my own work. Kagome is an accomplished sealmaster, and Leaf could always use more of those. Wakahisa is a budding medic. Realistically, I'm not going to get a better opportunity to found my own clan and shake up the conservative bloc. And to top it all off, I get to tell all the pricks on Councils who gave me shit for being soft on Team Mari to suck it."
Hiruzen was silent for a long minute, lighting his pipe and taking occasional contemplative puffs. "Fine," he said eventually. "If this is what you feel is best for Leaf and for your own happiness, then I am inclined to at least hear you out. After all, having a more progressive voice on the Clan Council can only be helpful, and frankly I can't wait to see Hiashi's face when he finds out. Now, obviously this can't become public until after the war has started. Or ended, as the case may be, thanks to these 'skywalkers'. Tell Kiyoshi to cancel my appointments for the rest of the day -- we will need to hash out a strategy for getting as many clans to go along with this without a fuss as we can manage.
"Tangentially, the Kurosawa boy seems... interesting. Once might be chance. Twice is, at the very least, a coincidence worth looking into."
"According to Agent Black, it's sounding like a lot more than twice, but I'd like to see a couple of the other ideas in action before I bank on them."
"As I said, interesting," Hiruzen replied, chewing his pipe contemplatively. "Very interesting. In any case, let's get to work. The place to start, I think, would be the Nara...."
Agent Black and Mari-sensei spent several long minutes staring at one another before Agent Black confirmed that you guys weren't bullshitting.
Other important info re: clans and Leaf government:
- There are three advisory councils to the Hokage, who retains ultimate dictatorial authority. However, substantial political maneuvering is often necessary to prevent resentments from building up. As @Velorien put it in chat: "Hiruzen has to have the overall support of the clans, because that is the source of his legitimacy. As soon as he loses that, he's ruling because he's the man with the biggest stick, and at that point he'll be facing physical rebellion from a village of ninja." If Hiruzen overrode the clans all day every day, they would at the very least drag their feet in getting missions done, and might eventually be pushed into actual rebellion given a sufficient weight of grievances. Even Sarutobi Hiruzen isn't especially fond of the idea of fighting a whole city full of goddamn kung-fu battle wizards.
- The Merchant Council is made up of business owners and those responsible for the city's services, and is largely made up of civilians (though since clans often run businesses, there are ninja representatives as well).
- The Clan Council is made up of the heads of every recognized Leaf clan. The specific legal benefits of being a clan revolve around a) a position in this body, to ensure that any concerns you have are heard by the Hokage, and b) the right to withhold information (e.g. about bloodlines, jutsu, and seals) from Leaf's government under laws governing clan secrets. Unless an innovation is claimed as such, those who developed it are expected to make it available to the broader community in exchange for reasonable compensation.
- So, when Jiraiya / Keiko / Noburi say that clans won't want their privileges 'diluted', what they mean is that they don't want other people taking up the Kage's time and attention, and that they don't want other people to be able to withhold innovations that they / they broader community might make use of (and which might give the innovator some competitive advantage). There are also issues of deeply embedded traditions and ideas about nobility over which clans might oppose the formation of a new clan full of ex-missing nin, but those are more PR and less pragmatism.
- The unwritten benefits include an unofficial, and to a large extent unspoken, agreement to collaborate on putting administrative, economic, and hypothetical-military pressure on the Hokage and non-clan groups to ensure that various clans' desires are catered to.
- The War Council is made up of the top tactical and strategic minds Leaf has to offer, as well as the jounin who head the various wings of Leaf's military. The War Council meets regularly even when Leaf is neither at war nor planning to go to war in order to maintain plausible deniability.
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So what I'm getting from this is that the Hokage has just up and decided "Fuck the Clan Council and their objections, I'm just unilaterally deciding to rubber stamp this." - given that the basis of our planning thus far was that we wouldn't be getting a rubber stamp and would need to negotiate with a bunch of people and you just put out a new update anyways, can we get an extension on the voting time?
Hazou: "And here's how I made a lesser version of the Flying Thunder God seal by putting a timer on a storage seal and strapping it to a kunai. Oh, and you can throw 100kg objects at high speeds at people too."
Jiraiya:
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
One: We NEED to get into the war council. That would be too much fun.
Two: It sounds like we can assuage most of their concerns by freely sharing seals, etc.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
My impression was that a lot of the plans currently have solid provisions for at least starting to deal with clans but were waiting on how they wanted to approach Hiruzen - is that in correct?
And in fact, Lore Update's currently winning.
CounterBot, version 1.5
Plan name: Lore Update
Voters: @ContextBot, @Enjou, @faflec, @Inferno Vulpix, @Kiba, @Muer'ci, @Skelm
Num votes: 7
Plan name: Study for Citizenship
Voters: @Dictator4Hire, @fiirofa, @MadScientist, @Radvic, @TalonofAnathrax
Num votes: 5
Plan name: A plan
Voters: @Adept_Woodwright, @faflec, @Radvic, @Vecht
Num votes: 4
Plan name: Immigration Laws 101
Voters: @faflec, @Jello_Raptor, @Vecht
Num votes: 3
Plan name: Training Hazou: Voice of Deception
Voters: @faflec, @Muer'ci, @Vecht
Num votes: 3
Plan name: Training Keiko: Voice of Diplomacy
Voters: @faflec, @Muer'ci, @Vecht
Num votes: 3
Plan name: Training Noburi: Voice of Diplomacy
Voters: @faflec, @Muer'ci, @Vecht
Num votes: 3
Plan name: Jiraiya Interlude: Hiruzen
Voters: @Dissonance, @huhYeahGoodPoint
Num votes: 2
Plan name: Jiraiya Interlude: Leaf higher-ups
Voters: @Dissonance, @huhYeahGoodPoint
Num votes: 2
Plan name: Training Keiko: Voice of the Deal
Voters: @Muer'ci, @Oneiros43
Num votes: 2
Plan name: Don't call J dad.
Voters: @Muer'ci
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Let's Not Wreck This
Voters: @MadScientist
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Study and Strategize
Voters: @Enjou
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Akane: Hope she focused on her socials(fingers crossed)
Voters: @1234qwerty
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Hazou Mad Scientist Bro
Voters: @Oneiros43
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Hazou: Deceptive Sealing
Voters: @MadScientist
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Hazou: Nope
Voters: @1234qwerty
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Keiko: Nope
Voters: @1234qwerty
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Noburi: Nope
Voters: @1234qwerty
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Yes I know we don't get to vote, doing it anyway.
Voters: @Jello_Raptor
Num votes: 1
Number of voters: 19
We got some ideas, but we're worried about our plan being based mostly on pure speculation and extrapolation based on what we known from canon.
I believe that the general assumption was that the deal Jiraiya accepted would need to be accepted by Leaf's government, which could mean just the Hokage, but there was an implication that we wouldn't just get a rubber stamp and that we'd need to convince at least a few of the clans to support giving us clan status in order to actually get it. Or, at least that was my read on the situation.
Like, the notion I proposed about sending Hazou's descendants who get Sharingan to the Uchiha? That was based on the motivation of getting their agreement to support our clan status. Now that the Hokage has rubber stamped it, my motivation to propose that deal is gone, barring some new complication where we seriously need their support and we need to dangle a carrot in front of them to get it.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
[X] Action Plan: Immigration Laws 101
This seems correct to me. I can think of four relevant pieces of information we learned this update: The Hokage is in (so we don't need to plan there), the Merchant Council exists, the War Council exists, and the Clans are not super powerful/relevant for now. Given that the next update will likely cover "founding our clan," there really isn't much we should change our plans. Like, yes, we will want to interact with the war and merchant council and the clans, but no, we don't need to do all of that and found a clan in a single update. Next update should be placating clans and founding our own. Which, I'm fairly confident doing things like the plan I proposed will achieve.
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
Don't vote for this plan - I'm striking it out. It was built on the premise that we weren't going to get our deal rubber stamped.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Contextbot is not actually a bot.
Dissonance
Luna's Luna
- Location
- Ginnungagap.
- Pronouns
- S/H/T
Contextbot is not actually a bot.
Oh.
Agreed, unless we get an extension. The Hokage just rubber stamping the deal we wanted was not at all expected, and none of our plans were built around that idea. I'm pretty sure we all expected some form of additional negotiations.
Plus it's a good spot for a Lore Update.
Rihaku
The Internet
Nice, Hiruzen came through. Now that clan status is all but approved, the political calculus changes dramatically.
The snowball effect applies to politics as it does to armed conflict. While it may seem unbecoming to sully the unstinting valor of the latter with the dirt and grime of the former, the comparison in this case is very apt.
If you are a clan of Konoha and another family petitions for clan status, you may instinctively desire to block their request for fear of losing clan privileges.
However, if you know that a majority of clans support the new family already, then the chances of successful opposition are lower. Do you stay the course and risk making an enemy of the new clan, or switch sides and gain a new ally in the power structure? Keep in mind that those who switch first will be rewarded most liberally; no one has honours to spare for the lord who does not arrive until the day is already won.
The present situation is even more extreme: the Hokage has all but fiated the creation of Jiraiya's clan. Opposition is now a fool's play. The optimal move for an existing clan is now to ingratiate themselves quickly and strongly; a new voice on the Council means old deadlocks broken and a new homeostasis of power distribution. To best ensure the new equilibrium favors you, you must ensure that the new clan is working for rather than against your interests. Those who give needless vent to resentment or cling to irrational ideals of 'what a clan truly is' will find themselves left behind in the new order.
Of course, ingratiation does not mean submission; the Hyuuga may offer a condescending hand of friendship while the eviscerated Uchiha may offer a supplicating one. Mid-tier powers may seek to treat with Jiraiya as friendly equals, at least until he proves his clan is their greater - or lesser. And of course this assumes the clan heads are rational actors. Insulated from hardship by their hereditary positions, some may choose to stand on principle and suffer the diminished political power that results.
The snowball effect applies to politics as it does to armed conflict. While it may seem unbecoming to sully the unstinting valor of the latter with the dirt and grime of the former, the comparison in this case is very apt.
If you are a clan of Konoha and another family petitions for clan status, you may instinctively desire to block their request for fear of losing clan privileges.
However, if you know that a majority of clans support the new family already, then the chances of successful opposition are lower. Do you stay the course and risk making an enemy of the new clan, or switch sides and gain a new ally in the power structure? Keep in mind that those who switch first will be rewarded most liberally; no one has honours to spare for the lord who does not arrive until the day is already won.
The present situation is even more extreme: the Hokage has all but fiated the creation of Jiraiya's clan. Opposition is now a fool's play. The optimal move for an existing clan is now to ingratiate themselves quickly and strongly; a new voice on the Council means old deadlocks broken and a new homeostasis of power distribution. To best ensure the new equilibrium favors you, you must ensure that the new clan is working for rather than against your interests. Those who give needless vent to resentment or cling to irrational ideals of 'what a clan truly is' will find themselves left behind in the new order.
Of course, ingratiation does not mean submission; the Hyuuga may offer a condescending hand of friendship while the eviscerated Uchiha may offer a supplicating one. Mid-tier powers may seek to treat with Jiraiya as friendly equals, at least until he proves his clan is their greater - or lesser. And of course this assumes the clan heads are rational actors. Insulated from hardship by their hereditary positions, some may choose to stand on principle and suffer the diminished political power that results.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
We won the game when Jiraiya said yes to marriage. I expected he'd want to avoid needing to start a clan and so would turn it down. When he didn't it seemed clear tha we will just win. Unless there is a substantial threat aside from the villages, I expect the conflict in MfD to basically end within the next real life year (unless we lore update all the time).
Gonna be honest: the Hokage rubberstamping us after Jiraiya tried to convince him to rubber stamp us is exactly what I suspected.
Ok, but that's not at all the impression I got from the actual data. We were supposed to vote on strategizing, and then the first infodump we got was about which clans would oppose our clan status. So it didn't sound like it would happen to me.
And now it's night time for a lot of us and we need to sleep and can't really get plans modified or created to deal with this entirely new situation that wasn't what we expected to deal with.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Honestly though, the top plans in the running all have a component of Lore Update, just IC and asking to collaborate with Jiraiya.
With that in mind, I cast:
[X] Lore Update
I'm hoping to get specifics on what being Leaf-nin entails. We already have our approval rubber stamped, so playing it earlier doesn't neccesarily give us any advantage, and Lore Update will give us more room to maneuver.
[X]Action Plan: A plan
If anything is going to pass, this one does the most about cooperating with Jiraiya, mentions Akane, has bits of a Lore Update, and does have a tolerable negotiations (unless the plan has been edited since I last looked at this link). Do be aware however, that while other clans are going to be busy smiling and welcoming us to our faces, this approach guarantees that rumors will start flying about the clan that is trying so hard to keep their past as the Cold Stone Killers secret.
With that in mind, I cast:
[X] Lore Update
I'm hoping to get specifics on what being Leaf-nin entails. We already have our approval rubber stamped, so playing it earlier doesn't neccesarily give us any advantage, and Lore Update will give us more room to maneuver.
[X]Action Plan: A plan
If anything is going to pass, this one does the most about cooperating with Jiraiya, mentions Akane, has bits of a Lore Update, and does have a tolerable negotiations (unless the plan has been edited since I last looked at this link). Do be aware however, that while other clans are going to be busy smiling and welcoming us to our faces, this approach guarantees that rumors will start flying about the clan that is trying so hard to keep their past as the Cold Stone Killers secret.
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