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If we take the TH with us, Ino doesn't get the lessons she needs to revitalize her clan. RIP.

[×] get our TH tutor and Ino scrolls so we can have class on the 7th path
 
agreed on sharing FOOM with Naruto and also asking for loot.


Am I taking crazy pills? I'm confused. For those saying we'll keep Noburi at home/leaf, isn't the whole point of the missing idea was to get the family the f*ck out of leaf and drop all communications? When people say we'll get topped up by Noburi every week, all I'm hearing is we're going to get different Ino body parts delivered by Noburi every week until we return home.



Also, since we've gotten Naruto's approval, let's bring Ino. Tell her it will be a nice date, we want to show her some new cool seals. (We've done this before no?) Seems plausible-ish and in character. Let's not leave Ino behind to what's a bad fate.
 
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Mari definitely guessed the topic and fetched Naruto, didn't she ?
Actually no, he showed up on his own.

* Copies of Minato's notes and seals that Hazo can develop
I'm fairly sure that Hazō has already copied all of this into the Iron Nerve. @faflec , please correct me if I'm wrong.

Wait is this actually the canon QM response? The gender of Lord/Lady Kurusu did change between chapters?
Pretty sure that's an error.

Oof.
The dilemma we were forced into was rough, but it was *fair*.
It really sucks to have spent months staring at our choices, finally get ready to make our choice, then have it removed at the last second for being difficult.

Doing all the engagement with the problem, then having it auro-resolve without us at the last second leaves a bitter taste.
Man this just kinda sucks. We where finally going to strike out on our own and be able to do stuff. Now we get to make decisions and just light house 2.0
Were y'all in the Leave camp? Nothing is stopping you from going missing.
Were y'all in the Stay camp? Talk to Naruto, refuse the mission.

Even split of bets between him going missing to rejoin akatsuki for rights to determine who comes out, which is explicitly something itachi offered Hazō, or researching something to move/seal the rift then using it selfishly, with that last 20% for oro actually obeying.
Point of order: Itachi did not offer Hazō the right to determine who came out of the rift, he said that Hazō could add some names to the list.

[faflec proves me wrong in 5...4...3...]
 
I'm fairly sure that Hazō has already copied all of this into the Iron Nerve. @faflec , please correct me if I'm wrong.
"Naruto let me have the rest of Minato's notes on the jinchūriki seal. I'm copying those today and probably the next couple of days." Using a dry brush, the intent being to store the notes in the Iron Nerve, but there was no reason to say that even to one so trusted as Gaku.
It is up to you to decide whether we finished this or not. As for the seals Hazou can develop, there's too many of those for me to definitively say Yay or Nay, but I lean towards Yay since the relevant seal notes should have included functional seals, which Hazou can of course IN copy.
Point of order: Itachi did not offer Hazō the right to determine who came out of the rift, he said that Hazō could add some names to the list.

[faflec proves me wrong in 5...4...3...]
"Were you to join," Itachi said, "it would be entirely natural to reward your loyalty by prioritising your loved ones when the time came. As matters stand, however, you are far from the only one who wishes for certain people to be restored to them, and Nagato will surely also have a list of departed souls whose aid will be instrumental in building the world we seek. Likely, he has even made converts in the afterlife whom he will deem worthy of hastened restoration."
 
It is up to you to decide whether we finished this or not. As for the seals Hazou can develop, there's too many of those for me to definitively say Yay or Nay, but I lean towards Yay since the relevant seal notes should have included functional seals, which Hazou can of course IN copy.
Didn't Itachi say Hazou owing them a favor [Akane's revival] be useful for the Akatsuki?
 
Didn't Itachi say Hazou owing them a favor [Akane's revival] be useful for the Akatsuki?
Hazō's heart sank. "I… I understand."

Itachi studied him thoughtfully, as if trying to decipher an abstract painting.

"With that said," he added, "I cannot say how long we will need to scour the afterlife before we find Nagato, or how far we will have to range. If we encounter Akane in the course of our search, and it is possible to retrieve her without risk to our mission… I suppose there would be advantages to having Leaf's second greatest sealmaster owe us a favour."

"Thank you," Hazō said, speaking from the heart.
 
It is up to you to decide whether we finished this or not. As for the seals Hazou can develop, there's too many of those for me to definitively say Yay or Nay, but I lean towards Yay since the relevant seal notes should have included functional seals, which Hazou can of course IN copy.

Oh boy I don't get to do this often. But it's time to out-faflec faflec.

The last seal in the chain, the jinchuuriki seal, is longer than the others, so let's say it took two days instead of one to keep the SC XP rate constant at 0.4x. Added at that rate.
We completed copying the entire MS chain a while back. I was tracking it.
Namikaze privacy seals
  • As Naruto is not a sealmaster and Minato's (normal) seals wouldn't last a decade and a half, these are similarly drawn from the pool of general Leaf privacy seals.
Minato's seals wouldn't have lasted 15 years. So we didn't download anything into the IN
 
Figure out what or who you need to take with you in order to make this work. I strongly do not want you to take Noburi, but if you are completely certain that you can't do the mission without him then I'll give you a chance to convince me.

Runes take a lot of chakra, any major anti-Akatsuki weapon developed by Hazou will likely need to be Rune based, so Hazou needs access to Noburi because he doesn't have enough chakra on his own to infuse most Runes he's trying to develop.

This may actually be true, but if it's not it's still a good argument that Naruto would find difficult to argue with.
 
I'm fairly sure that Hazō has already copied all of this into the Iron Nerve. @faflec , please correct me if I'm wrong.
I was thinking specifically of whatever seals Naruto gave Itachi during the shakedown, which were later reaffirmed as "clan secrets" because missing nin don't count as people.

"Are you ordering me to give Akatsuki my dad's life's work
 
Okay, so with that context, we should talk about who we want to bring, knowing it isn't life or death (we can also tell Naruto the story about the scroll Hunt if we need a second excuse to go out of town after Akatsuki asks about us the first time, if we don't just cut and run at that point.

Kei is honestly pretty busy running things these days, and Naruto listens to her, especially given KEI history. Removing her I think it's worse for us.

Kagome is a yes. Extra seal research. We can do a better job trying to kill Akatsuki AND do Rift research with him, and prepared ground gets better with him. Plus, since his fighting style doesn't involve using Chakra, he can just summon? No idea what his reserves are like though.

Noburi... I think we should ask him, tbh. But he lets us FOOM, which is very helpful. And he lets us work on large scale runes without needing to stop, which is very helpful. Especially if we are still trying to help with the great seal (we need to research the rune HOWS, if nothing else), and need bones of creation up (though I do love the idea of it being 1/4 instead of 1/2, because it's derived from ES, and we are very familiar with it narratively and mechanically (please QMs?)). Plus, he's decent in combat, we may need healing in the field, and he has at least some combat summons. But I think "Chakra for Runes and multithread ES prototypes" is a very compelling reason.

Mari: I think we should take one of Mari or Noburi, but not both. First reason, is that the other one should be clan head while we are gone. We want someone who's good with people and shares our ideals to be in charge, so we don't lose out on what Goketsu is while we're gone.
For Mari, downsides are she's not a summoner, so just leaving on a bad fight isn't an option for her, which is rough. Upsides, she's a join, with stats that reflect combat mostly, almost a perfect mirror to Kagome. We could really use firepower to keep us from dying, just in case. Especially if we end up having to fight an Akatsuki pair. With her, we still probably lose. Without her, we definitely lose.

On which note, I'm hoping Mari did learn that whirlwind barrier she got from the trade deal? And we really need to research those "you can't find us" seals Oro gave us".

Other options: Haru is a decent combatant, has been learning stealth, and could teach us lightning (and Sots, if he knows it). Our seal research clan mate would be helpful, but that feels like it really tips our hand. Yuno? A lot of the same reasoning as Mari, just kinda worse (but better, if we see Hidan I guess). If we take Noburi, taking Yuno goes up, in my mind.
Taking our TH teacher? I don't know if he'd go for it, and that would screw over Ino, which I don't love. Maybe we can ask Naruto about other others there, if that's a TH he trusts to come with us?

So, like, Hazou, Kagome, Noburi, Yuno or
HKN or
Hazou, Kagome, Mari
+/- a TH teacher or strong suggestion, is kinda what I'm thinking at this point.

Anyone have any thoughts, now that we have the option to leave without going missing?
 
Yes, it's a little bit of a railroad, for which we apologize. On the other hand, as with any Campbellian hero, you can always refuse the call to adventure. Now that Hazō knows about Orochimaru, he is a risk to Leaf. If you aren't willing to leave then you can say so; Naruto is willing to talk about implementation so long as you aren't a risk when Akatsuki show up.
For the record, I really don't like this: It feels like the QM not only come up with the "best" solution for the players in order to solve a dilemma between the two "factions" of the voters. I always pride MfD on the importance of simulationism and that player's decision that they made themselves will have consequences, even if sometimes this too have detrimental effects on narrative. However, to have this presented us in quest due to in no small part, the OOC voter polarized situation between "stay" and "leave" is just wrong. I understand that at the end of the day, it's not a "hard" railroad and ultimately player can refuse but still: it would be difficult for the stay or leave faction to continue campaigning after a soft railroad like this.

I do understand the issue the QM was facing with; A player voter base that is polarized between two sides would cause issues whichever wins so I could see the QM perspective. IIRC I'm not sure it was recent, but there was a time in the past where vote saltiness caused issues in thread so it's not without precedent. So I could see why the QM would choose to pursue this option.

So yeah, whatever, let's just continue on with the quest.
 
isn't the whole point of the missing idea was to get the family the f*ck out of leaf and drop all communications

Naruto basically just walked up to us and said the equivalent of "I've been stewing about this for a bit and something dawned on me: fuck those guys. Hazou, we'll have Orochimaru move the Rift. Your job is to invent enough superweapons to bury these clowns and the people who will try to fuck with us in the aftermath. But for fuck's sake don't do it here where every Minori and Haru can find you."
 
I really don't get the complaints. Naruto gave us another option. We can still do whatever we want. Hell, this is the perfect long-term mission we were planning for to eventually go missing.
 
I have. A crazy idea. Possibly a stupid idea. Our sanity checkers may infact figuratively or literally kill us over it.

Tell Naruto about EM. Perhaps don't mention Isan.

Okay hear me out. Naruto wants superweapons. We're gonna hand him a superweapon. We can go into the woods for a week and reinvent a EM rune, nevermind months. Naruto is going to get a superweapon and we are going to give it to him.

So we split it up a bit. We give him EM, he can set a THer in Leaf on the problem of recreating it. And we... get brownie points? Don't have to leave? Convince him to let us bring Noburi? Convince him to send us to go help Oro out with the Rift? Something.

Downside is, he will figure out Isan. But we're already past the worst part of that; the investigation with Akatsuki came and went. Is 'oh hey we murdered Isan' going to be all that much more of a burdenful secret when Naruto is lying to Akatsuki's face about both rift research and researching to kill them?
 
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But we're already past the worst part of that
No we're not. If we reinvent and use the EM Nuke in a way that its obvious that this is the same weapon that wiped Isan off the map, then we're going to have a lot of explaining to do, particularly to Yuno.
 
I really don't get the complaints. Naruto gave us another option. We can still do whatever we want. Hell, this is the perfect long-term mission we were planning for to eventually go missing.

Agreed.

Naruto's incentives are broadly aligned with Hazou's and he is an independent actor capable of making plans. It does not breach suspension of disbelief to imagine that he would consider Akatsuki and come up with a plan that is broadly in Hazou's interests. This is a rare time when a powerful character's independent agency has yielded a beneficial outcome for Hazou; if you were Hokage, wouldn't you want to make use of your weapons-design savant to deal with a threat like Akatsuki?

Giving Oppenheimer the Manhatten Project is exactly what you do when you're at war.
 
I think this is a good solution and I don't mind the railroading. And it certainly helps me understand what you were talking about when you cryptically hinted that we had more options we weren't considering.
Were y'all in the Leave camp? Nothing is stopping you from going missing.
Were y'all in the Stay camp? Talk to Naruto, refuse the mission.

Maybe I'm missing something, but "what if we just stay away on a long-term mission forever" was one of the first things I thought of.

Given that Naruto instead came forward with the bonkers Missing-nin plan, and Mari didn't suggest the possibility either, I read the room and took it to mean "Akatsuki would quickly notice this is an obvious sham and retaliate".

If Naruto and Mari think this will work, great.
I just... don't get why they were acting like it was non-viable until 5 minutes ago?
 
I can definitely appreciate a strategy of generating a lot of noise to distract Akatsuki with. If I understand you correctly, what you're proposing sounds like Hazou would advocate for loading the enemy with more information so that they're less likely to directly interact with Leaf or shakedown Hazou again? This seems like something that should've been implemented by both stayers and leavers a while ago, but that's hindsight. I'll support it if staying is still on the table after the next update.
Not just a strategy of generating noise, but legitimate projects that will greatly help Uplift while not actually needing Hazou to put much actual work in, allowing him to just look like he is while in reality doing the Forbidden Research.
 
Right, questions and comments for the table(Naruto + Mari)
  • This seems like a plan you could have proposed months ago instead of ordering me to destroy the rift. What changed?
  • Won't Akatsuki have a bunch of way to contact us if they actually try? Including telling you to order us to accept contact via the 7th path? And isn't "long-term sealing mission out of leaf" going to scream "going to great lengths to hide research from Akatsuki".
  • Are you actually good enough to keep lying to Akatsuki? If you get caught, they'll kill everyone.
  • We're a better sealmaster than Orochimaru. He (and presumably Sasori) have a larger body of work to pull from, which evens things out somewhat, but by pure skill, we're pretty sure we're the best living sealmaster in the world. And we're still early in our career and rapidly improving.
  • We do not like that you told Oro about the rift, especially not without coordinateing with us. Why do you think Oro will cooperate with you once he controls the rift? Giving him sole dominion over the afterlife isn't that much better than letting Akatsuki take it.
  • Given that we know SC, is there any reason why we wouldn't research the rift *and* a bunch of Essie-killing superweapons?

Right, things I want from Naruto
  • We need to finish TH training, but haruhisa is contracted for double-lessons with Ino, so taking him with us is hard. Propose solutions. "Don't finish TH training" is not a solution.
  • We're relying on Noburi's chakra for SC training. Checking in once a week won't be good enough. Propose solutions.
  • Uplift continues to get full access to Noburi's training refills.
  • Kagome gets SC. He'll have enough intel to doom leaf anyways, he'll be hiding in the woods, and it will be a huge help in our weapons research.
  • Beg the toad sages to train us(Noburi, Kei, Hazou) on the 7th path. Give up your own training hour if that's what it takes to convince them. Not only do they know things we desperately need to learn, but we're all major strategic assets that need to hit the big leagues, FAST.
  • Fork over some of minato's sealing stash. It won't help anyone by sitting in your vault as the wold ends. Even his lesser work could be incredibly useful, but we want to see what you can do once we recreate Harashin.
 
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Runes take a lot of chakra, any major anti-Akatsuki weapon developed by Hazou will likely need to be Rune based, so Hazou needs access to Noburi because he doesn't have enough chakra on his own to infuse most Runes he's trying to develop.

This may actually be true, but if it's not it's still a good argument that Naruto would find difficult to argue with.
So, I think we can thread the needle on Noburi chakra pretty tidily.

Naruto doesn't need to know that Noburi's sending chakra to the Seventh Path. Akatsuki doesn't need to know that Noburi's sending chakra to the Seventh Path. In fact, Akatsuki has no reason to even consider the possibility. Nobody except Noburi and Hazou need to know that Noburi's doing this.

But then how do we ensure Noburi has enough spare chakra to send to Hazou in the first place? We just need to ask Naruto in more vague terms, ensuring that Noburi is given room to process Goketsu chakra first before processing chakra for the rest of Leaf. Then, whatever happens behind closed Goketsu doors stays behind closed Goketsu doors.

To put this in chronological order:
  • We ask for first priority on Noburi chakra. Perhaps by ensuring Sasuke et al. don't come by first thing in the morning, but instead a couple hours later.
  • Naruto, whatever his suspicions, does not strictly speaking know that Noburi is sending chakra to Hazou.
  • Noburi handles Goketsu chakra like normal. The fact that he goes to the Seventh Path to refill Hazou is a total secret.
  • If the Akatsuki come along, they do not have any reason to suspect that Noburi is heading to the Seventh Path at all, let alone that he's in regular contact with Hazou.
For bonus points, have Naruto use someone else to send Hazou messages, like Kei or Ruri. That way Noburi doesn't even enter the conversation at all when the Akatsuki come knocking.
 
Naruto doesn't need to know that Noburi's sending chakra to the Seventh Path. Akatsuki doesn't need to know that Noburi's sending chakra to the Seventh Path. In fact, Akatsuki has no reason to even consider the possibility. Nobody except Noburi and Hazou need to know that Noburi's doing this.
If the Akatsuki come along, they do not have any reason to suspect that Noburi is heading to the Seventh Path at all, let alone that he's in regular contact with Hazou.
If Akatsuki show up in leaf wanting to get ahold of Hazou, Noburi is probably one the the first people they'd talk to.
Similarly, if they think they're being given the runaround, he's at best tied with Kei as most obvious candidate to press for information.
 
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