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Well, I'm mostly looking to get a dragon in our heads because of the possibility of acquiring something more powerful to fight the invaders with that draw the enemy's eye.

It's also the only way to stop him from communicating with the outside world without locking him in a cell.
...

1- The invaders are weaker than Dazzarel. Their boss is the only one who has more than 1M PL.
2- Sealing him in chibi form means he is still under surveilance and unable to use his power or communicate with not-exiles.
 
So which is more important, the effectiveness of trying to redeem Dazarel, or the entertainment value?

Entertainment value.

I read this quest because it's fun.

I could care less if Dazarel is redeemed. I'd have loved to see him killed after his defeat (possibly by Dandeer and/or Yammar, but especially by Dad) but I'm not down with Kakara becoming a killer to do it. She won't kill, and the quest wouldn't be as fun to read if she broke that trait.
 
Knowledge is power. That alone is reason to get him inside of us, given that it knows things about the galaxy and psychic powers.
No it isn't.
For one thing, you seem to be assuming that jailing him in our head gives us access to his powers, OR his knowledge.
Or would do so without repercussions.

Something that really, REALLY isn't in evidence.
The self seal also let's us control it. If he is chibified, there is no way to use his powers without a super ritual tomodify the seal. With self seal, we can actually release him if we think he is reformed, which gives us an extra ally.
Citation.
Furthermore, citation that you can do so in a state that's anything unlike, say, Naruto going six tails and psychotic.

Well, I'm mostly looking to get a dragon in our heads because of the possibility of acquiring something more powerful to fight the invaders with that draw the enemy's eye. It's also the only way to stop him from communicating with the outside world without locking him in a cell.
1) We don't need a dragon to fight the invaders we know about. So far, it's turning out to look to be as much of a political challenge as it might be a combat one. Something that will be made harder if people begin to worry about our intentions because wer are coming off as ambitious, by the way.

2) Putting him in our head is locking him in a cell.
 
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Entertainment value.

I read this quest because it's fun.

I could care less if Dazarel is redeemed. I'd have loved to see him killed after his defeat (possibly by Dandeer and/or Yammar, but especially by Dad) but I'm not down with Kakara becoming a killer to do it. She won't kill, and the quest wouldn't be as fun to read if she broke that trait.
Besides, as long as he is not a thread... well, whether he recovers or not is his choice.
 
Well, I'm mostly looking to get a dragon in our heads because of the possibility of acquiring something more powerful to fight the invaders with that draw the enemy's eye.

It's also the only way to stop him from communicating with the outside world without locking him in a cell.
He has no way of communicating beyond Garenhuld without psychic powers, and we really don't need more power to fight the invaders. The whole point of that little crisis is beating them without giving away how strong we are.
 
No it isn't.
For one thing, you seem to be assuming that jailing him in our head gives us access to his powers, OR his knowledge.
Or would do so without repercussions.

Something that really, REALLY isn't in evidence.
I think this is a case of miscommunication? It is not that it gives us access to his knowledge, is that he can only share it with us and if someone wants to ask him about something, they would have to come through us.
Citation.
Furthermore, citation that you can do so in a state that's anything unlike, say, Naruto going six tails and psychotic.
Let's us control the seal. When we asked if he could talk to the cat, the sorcerers said in the update that, if sealed in a cat, in theory the cat would have control on how much the seal lets slip through.
 
Entertainment value.

I read this quest because it's fun.

I could care less if Dazarel is redeemed. I'd have loved to see him killed after his defeat (possibly by Dandeer and/or Yammar, but especially by Dad) but I'm not down with Kakara becoming a killer to do it. She won't kill, and the quest wouldn't be as fun to read if she broke that trait.
Will the quest be as fun to read if Kakara develops a Power-Hungry trait? That miiight happen if Kakara's Ambitious trait pushes her over the edge into imprisoning another sentient being inside herself for personal power, and power does seem to be a major motivation here.
 
Will the quest be as fun to read if Kakara develops a Power-Hungry trait? That miiight happen if Kakara's Ambitious trait pushes her over the edge into imprisoning another sentient being inside herself for personal power, and power does seem to be a major motivation here.
Yes.

I would have voted for Jaffur back during Char Gen if I was here btw.
 
I think this is a case of miscommunication? It is not that it gives us access to his knowledge, is that he can only share it with us and if someone wants to ask him about something, they would have to come through us.

Let's us control the seal. When we asked if he could talk to the cat, the sorcerers said in the update that, if sealed in a cat, in theory the cat would have control on how much the seal lets slip through.
It is explicitly unknown if we would get any power from this, and even more unknown how it would function. There is no citation.
 
I am actually wanting it more now than I did before cause I didn't care at all. So thanks Simon you convinced me that only voting Head dragon is right

also we will be able to control the seal if he is in us as per Word of god we can undo the seal ourselves if we wanted to unlike with any other plus possibly being the only one with access to his knowledge even if we don't actually have access
 
It is explicitly unknown if we would get any power from this, and even more unknown how it would function. There is no citation.
That actually raises a question in my mind (and I'm re-pinging only because my last ping attempt was, I think, misspelled and may not have taken effect)...

@PoptartProdigy , the Ambitious trait conferring weighting implies that Kakara knows she'll gain power from becoming the seal on the dragon, correct? Is the power in question just "access to the dragon's knowledge and control over its seal?" Or is she expecting an actual physical power-up? In the latter case, how does she know to expect it? Presumably she wouldn't get Ambitious weighting for an option she didn't KNOW would grant her more power, right?
 
I am actually wanting it more now than I did before cause I didn't care at all. So thanks Simon you convinced me that only voting Head dragon is right

also we will be able to control the seal if he is in us as per Word of god we can undo the seal ourselves if we wanted to unlike with any other plus possibly being the only one with access to his knowledge even if we don't actually have access
We can control the seal itself, we don't know if we can do anything with his power in it, by WOG.
 
[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).

In retrospect, I hadn't dived deep enough into my paranoia to see a secondary benefit to this.

If shit ever goes sideays and Dandeer tries sealing us, I believe we'll be able to use this somewhat. If not via having the dragon and/or power fight her seal, as a place of refuge within the mind so we don't get erased (since we're not a Sorceror like Jaffur).
 
I think this is a case of miscommunication? It is not that it gives us access to his knowledge, is that he can only share it with us and if someone wants to ask him about something, they would have to come through us.
Neither of which is a good thing.
This is a declaration, of a lack of trust in the rest of the Saiyan population.
This is how you start working towards a Control Freak or Paranoid trait.

Let's us control the seal. When we asked if he could talk to the cat, the sorcerers said in the update that, if sealed in a cat, in theory the cat would have control on how much the seal lets slip through.
It doesn't say it gives you control of it's powers; it says you have control on whether those powers can slip through the seal.
You'd still need Daz to actually do anything.
This isn't Naruto where he could simply channel Kyuubijuice regardless of whether Kurama wanted it or not..
 
[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).

In retrospect, I hadn't dived deep enough into my paranoia to see a secondary benefit to this.

If shit ever goes sideays and Dandeer tries sealing us, I believe we'll be able to use this somewhat. If not via having the dragon and/or power fight her seal, as a place of refuge within the mind so we don't get erased (since we're not a Sorceror like Jaffur).
Uhhh... wait what?

Firstly, we don't need more power to break the seal. We could have broken the seal at any point in the past several years, just by pouring in enough power to short it out. Any super-saiyan could do this, and I suspect the main reason Yammar hasn't already is that Dandeer has agents watching him.

The hard part isn't "how do we break the Seal from the outside with access to Jaron?" It's making sure the political consequences don't get out of control, and finding a way to do it without killing Jaron (or, rather, by replacing him with Jaffur, which amounts to the same thing).

As to the 'backup redoubt panic room' idea...

I'm really skeptical of the idea that we'll be able to withdraw our own mind or 'self' inside the seal. It's not designed for that. It may or may not be possible for us to control it from inside, too, so that after we lower the barrier to let ourselves in, we may not be able to raise it again to keep others out.

Plus, if we raised the barrier again, we'd be locked inside, with no contact with the outside world and no way to know when, if ever, it would be safe to come out. Trapped, in a panic room inside our own mind. With Dazarel the Emo Dragon. Indefinitely.

Honestly it might be kinder to just let Dandeer erase Kakara at that point. :( !

We still don't have a answer for what happens when Kakara dies other than "Dazarel gets stuck in a rotting corpse for all eternity"
No. No we do not.

Neither of which is a good thing.
This is a declaration, of a lack of trust in the rest of the Saiyan population.
This is how you start working towards a Control Freak or Paranoid trait.
Also this.

I can unhappily easily imagine adult Kakara going down a "Kakara knows better than everyone" path as an evolution of Ambitious (with a side order of Oddball and Decisive). I don't think it's likely, but compulsive hoarding of information and access to power sources is one way to get there IMO.
 
Will the quest be as fun to read if Kakara develops a Power-Hungry trait? That miiight happen if Kakara's Ambitious trait pushes her over the edge into imprisoning another sentient being inside herself for personal power, and power does seem to be a major motivation here.
Please, enough with the fearmongering and blatant strawmanning. We're not going to turn power-hungry because we imprisoned a xenocidal world-destroying dragon in our head in an atttempt to reform him and limit the possible damage he can cause to his surroundings, even as a chibi-dragon. That we might gain powers from him is a secondary concern to voters and I'm fairly sure Kakara would feel the same way.

Tbh I consider imprisoning him in our head as the lesser punishment because we can revert it instantly whenever we want to unlike chibifying him which will require a ritual with equal the strength of what we have now to undo. Poptart seems to believe the two punishments are fairly equal in terms of harshness according to the descriptions.
 
Uhhh... wait what?

Firstly, we don't need more power to break the seal. We could have broken the seal at any point in the past several years, just by pouring in enough power to short it out. Any super-saiyan could do this, and I suspect the main reason Yammar hasn't already is that Dandeer has agents watching him.

The hard part isn't "how do we break the Seal from the outside with access to Jaron?" It's making sure the political consequences don't get out of control, and finding a way to do it without killing Jaron (or, rather, by replacing him with Jaffur, which amounts to the same thing).

As to the 'backup redoubt panic room' idea...

I'm really skeptical of the idea that we'll be able to withdraw our own mind or 'self' inside the seal. It's not designed for that. It may or may not be possible for us to control it from inside, too, so that after we lower the barrier to let ourselves in, we may not be able to raise it again to keep others out.

Plus, if we raised the barrier again, we'd be locked inside, with no contact with the outside world and no way to know when, if ever, it would be safe to come out. Trapped, in a panic room inside our own mind. With Dazarel the Emo Dragon. Indefinitely.

Honestly it might be kinder to just let Dandeer erase Kakara at that point. :( !
Hmmm. Fair enough.

[X] Seal him in a less imposing physical body, with his powers sealed as well (somewhat harsh, renders him almost completely harmless while still giving him physical freedom. Implement chibi Dazarel).
 
Also, quick question to the self-seal group at large: since we keep seeing our being able to drop the seal when ready being touted as a big feature, what's the plan to stop someone from- say- kidnapping our younger siblings and blackmailing us into releasing the dragon? Because if the renegade saiyans find out about the dragon (say from a disgruntled Dandeer spilling the beans) and want to force us to release him, they don't need to be stronger than us, they just have to be strong enough to kidnap someone we love, like our six-year-old baby brother.
 
[X] Seal him in a less imposing physical body, with his powers sealed as well (somewhat harsh, renders him almost completely harmless while still giving him physical freedom. Implement chibi Dazarel).
 
Also, quick question to the self-seal group at large: since we keep seeing our being able to drop the seal when ready being touted as a big feature, what's the plan to stop someone from- say- kidnapping our younger siblings and blackmailing us into releasing the dragon? Because if the renegade saiyans find out about the dragon (say from a disgruntled Dandeer spilling the beans) and want to force us to release him, they don't need to be stronger than us, they just have to be strong enough to kidnap someone we love, like our six-year-old baby brother.

The fact that if they're not strong enough to force the release themselves they're not strong enough to survive Drazeal and with how this fight went everyone is going to know it.

Though I question why a renegade saiyan would want to do that. It's not like this is being done in secret, I'm pretty sure at least half the population is watching this debate happen live and the dragon didn't even manage to do much more than bloody some people so it's not like anyone is going to want revenge from that angle...
 
Please, enough with the fearmongering and blatant strawmanning. We're not going to turn power-hungry because we imprisoned a xenocidal world-destroying dragon in our head in an atttempt to reform him and limit the possible damage he can cause to his surroundings, even as a chibi-dragon. That we might gain powers from him is a secondary concern to voters and I'm fairly sure Kakara would feel the same way.

Tbh I consider imprisoning him in our head as the lesser punishment because we can revert it instantly whenever we want to unlike chibifying him which will require a ritual with equal the strength of what we have now to undo. Poptart seems to believe the two punishments are fairly equal in terms of harshness according to the descriptions.
That's explicitly not the reasoning anyone in this thread is giving - Poptart reads the thread and it influences updates. The arguments have been entirely about power, with a lackluster "it's totally better to rehabilitate someone by sealing them into our mind with no interaction with anyone else than letting him have conversations with people who aren't us".

There is absolutely no-one who has given the argument that the chibi is actually physically dangerous, so uh... please don't accuse people of strawmanning, if only to avoid hypocrisy.
 
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