Remove ads

Dragon Ball: After the End

Voting is open
Reader mode
"How do you expect to lead humanity if you've never been a part of it?" - Batman

One of our long-term plans for Kakara is reforming Saiyan society to not be as fight-happy and violent as it is, but one thing that's stuck out at me is the separation between her and the people she plans to uplift. She doesn't spend any amount of time living among Saiyans save for training and rare occasions like this meeting and she has no Saiyan friends. She even has a reputation for being mysterious.

Kakara holds a great deal of respect from the Saiyan population, but she's not really one of them, she never has been, and she hasn't done anything to change that. Next turn, I think we should turn that around by doing a Making Friends action. If we want to reform Saiyan society, we need to be a part of it. We need to be exposed to fellow children fighting each other not because of differences or prestige or anything, but as a bonding exercise to strengthen their friendships and have fun. We need connections within Saiyan society and we need a better idea of the Saiyan mind. Perhaps most of all, we need a friend we can talk to about our many, many problems without breaking the Masquerade.
 
Aranfan said:
@PoptartProdigy

On a hopefully less controversial topic: How many sleep overs have we had with our friends? Do we actually sleep during those, or not?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Quite a few, actually. Maya loves those, and she is too cute to refuse. You do sleep during them. You allot it as time expending on all things friendship.

Andres110 said:
Gohan did it at eleven. Does that mean we have two years ago before we reach that nuance?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Gohan had help. 16 delivering a lecture on righteous resistance before being crushed underfoot is a hell of a motivator, particularly when one's friends are being killed right now. And all of that was after years of internal conflict and thought since the time Gohan was six, such that his internal monologue upon ascending draws upon cases from as far back as the fight with Nappa and is presented as the culmination of his life experience. Kakara has faced exactly one crisis, and pacifism was her response. If it is to develop further, it will do so by time or experience, both of which she currently lacks. But by working on developing your gentle nature into outright pacifism you've "trained" it, to an extent. By having developed, on your own time and merits, the incredibly refined viewpoint that violence is not only unpleasant, but actively wrong -- at the age of nine -- you've made a huge leap in your awareness of yourself and your beliefs, and are more used to it.

In other words, you picked the action to reflect on a trait and accelerate its progression to the next stage, saving yourselves some time. But from now on you game for it, and without confronting her beliefs, Kakara will have a tough time contextualizing the viewpoint you're hoping for.

Aranfan said:
@PoptartProdigy

I know it kinda got lost in the rush, but what did you think of my piece on power levels?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It was very interesting. Obviously, in this quest I attempt to redeem them my making them not bullsh*t and actually slightly indicative of things, but you make fair points about its presentation in canon. I understand that Toriyama is making a point with his handling of the system, but to be honest it escapes me what that point is. I think it was something about the dangers of assigning arbitrary numbers to intangibles like a person's ability to fight, but he undermines that in a few other places, and ultimately I just see a confused presentation as a result.

Plus, I cannot resist the lure of numbers. His arguments have no hold on me. ;)

Yorick's Skull said:
Soo, how jealous is Gohan at our relatively light educational pressure? (The dude raised to balance mind and body by the Princess of the Ox kingdom? Son of the Strongest on earth as a pre-teen?)
I mean the dude/god was pressured almost constantly on both physical and mental fronts to the point that he considered super-heroics to be a vacation (imagine a Spiderman who considered the Dao of Ben to be the Vegas creed (Vegas stays in Vegas)). That has to shape some 'exceptional' sort of Saint persona as an actual Kami of his people. (the saiyan god ki etc)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He's largely reconciled to it, but he still is slightly rueful upon realizing that his mother was slightly overzealous in her curriculum.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
And all of that was after years of internal conflict and thought since the time Gohan was six, such that his internal monologue upon ascending draws upon cases from as far back as the fight with Nappa and is presented as the culmination of his life experience.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think that internal monologue may have been filler. Look how it was done in Kai. The scene was smoother, the reaction more primal and more punctual.
 
It appears I was wrong to assume that Lord Vegeta was not involved in the political process since he was sealed.
Rather that as Lord, he has some sort of infallibility if presented all the facts, as Lady Vegeta (plus advisors, cuz how else will she gain allies) are feeding questions to the masque and getting answers back. The masque him must be very bored of trolley problems by this point (and keep offering "I fly down and save everyone" as a non-option)

Unfortunately, this means that Clan Vegeta is being 'lead' by the far less crazy "Jason's Dad" character, who is a 'business owner human' rather than a 'broken supremely powerful warrior, murmaider, maniac, monster etc.'

This may actually pose a problem if the cult insists both Lord and Scion are released, as then we may need to kill Lord Vegeta to regain any chance of peace.

This may lead to Lady Vegeta causing a hard line divide between absolute No Sealed Lord/Scion and Yes Sealed Lord/Scion.
When all we want is a free Jaffur, Pref, in a whole new body, leaving his super-masque intact. (Jason as new dude, prob as the (hug/morality)-pet of Jaffur)

Imagine Sophie as a new Lady Vegeta.

We may need to become a focus of a third party in the cult (icky as it is), Jaffur/Scion/Saint centric, advocating for some limits on the Lords, maybe compromising with impeachment powers in some capacity (which would hurt our Dad a lot) if they massively overstep the bounds of society (which could hurt the long term expansion/colony plans/systems).

The whole one branch gov't is pretty anathema to my personal thought process, so i prob have lots of blind spots
Further political bits spoilered, as that is a discussion that is still ongoing and should not have an end until the death of the political system.

Viva la Democratic Debate!

(am a Canuck, so the SCC is pretty super-powered culture wise (consider how much we bridled at the thought of Harper over-ruling a decision with the Doc. assisted self-termination issue))

If ya'll see too much power shifting away from us, or if SV wishes for a more Tyranic (like the Greek style, with power directly derived from popular support, like Bonapart I) style of gov't I certainly won't object, but I am naturally inclined to rationally discussed checks and balances, with 9(or fewer-ish) un-elected- super-smart-folk (which is a way to describe a National Supreme court system) having (semi)final say (baring the gov invoking a not-with-standing clause (which is an admittance they are opposing the Supreme Court, which is almost political suicide at this point in culture/time in Cnd (or using the s.1 justification in the Charter))).

TLDR
Cultist salt for Days!!!

Also, politics thoughts? (re Quest specific)

I do appreciate that as Scion, we were almost immediately forced into situations where punching everyone into submission was possible, but would not actually accomplish what we wanted.

We are in fact trying to add to our pool of power equivalent people/rivals. the better to train etc. on a meta level, but also rendering the DBZ basis of Fight until you win into a more abstract event. Though i wouldn't object to carving out Grand-pa Vegeta's heart and dicing it for pigeon/carp consumption.
Fucking Asshole that he is/was. (Unless he runs an orphanage or something, he is on the "Atomize on sight" list as far as I am concerned)
 
Last edited:
I'd rather leave real world political systems outside of Dragon Ball. There's nothing about the whole idea that makes me think it'll make the game more fun.
 
Andres110 said:
I'd rather leave real world political systems outside of Dragon Ball. There's nothing about the whole idea that makes me think it'll make the game more fun.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, my bad, I just couldn't seem to stop typing after a point. I hope I spoilered the actual political stuff, but if I provoke any non-thread relevant discussion (butthurt to be rude but succinct), let me know and I will spoiler/edit it when I have time tomorrow.
 
Andres110 said:
I think that internal monologue may have been filler. Look how it was done in Kai. The scene was smoother, the reaction more primal and more punctual.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Nonetheless, it was the product of years of internal conflict. My point is that the revelations a lot of people want Kakara to come to won't be swift. These are really difficult questions that adults can't agree on. Many adults, in fact, don't agree with it, and never arrive at that conclusion -- through inability to reconcile its premises or simple distaste for them, depending on their ethical system. Kakara's only nine. Almost ten. Give her some time. If the thread plays it consistently, she'll get there. Of course, they may not, in which case who knows?

Yorick's Skull said:
It appears I was wrong to assume that Lord Vegeta was not involved in the political process since he was sealed.
Rather that as Lord, he has some sort of infallibility if presented all the facts, as Lady Vegeta (plus advisors, cuz how else will she gain allies) are feeding questions to the masque and getting answers back. The masque him must be very bored of trolley problems by this point (and keep offering "I fly down and save everyone" as a non-option)

Unfortunately, this means that Clan Vegeta is being 'lead' by the far less crazy "Jason's Dad" character, who is a 'business owner human' rather than a 'broken supremely powerful warrior, murmaider, maniac, monster etc.'
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Who is this Jason you speak of? ;)

Vegeta is involved in that his wife asks him a lot of abstract political questions. He thinks that she's simply curious, and has become the ultimate mansplainer. Fear his condescending might! But yeah, nobody actually believes him to be infallible or even right through this method, which is why the rule of law is breaking down. It's simply a polite fiction that Lady Vegeta believes will allow the Clan to swallow the situation better (it doesn't).

This may actually pose a problem if the cult insists both Lord and Scion are released, as then we may need to kill Lord Vegeta to regain any chance of peace.

This may lead to Lady Vegeta causing a hard line divide between absolute No Sealed Lord/Scion and Yes Sealed Lord/Scion.
When all we want is a free Jaffur, Pref, in a whole new body, leaving his super-masque intact. (Jason as new dude, prob as the (hug/morality)-pet of Jaffur)

Imagine Sophie as a new Lady Vegeta.

We may need to become a focus of a third party in the cult (icky as it is), Jaffur/Scion/Saint centric, advocating for some limits on the Lords, maybe compromising with impeachment powers in some capacity (which would hurt our Dad a lot) if they massively overstep the bounds of society (which could hurt the long term expansion/colony plans/systems).

The whole one branch gov't is pretty anathema to my personal thought process, so i prob have lots of blind spots
Further political bits spoilered, as that is a discussion that is still ongoing and should not have an end until the death of the political system.

Viva la Democratic Debate!

(am a Canuck, so the SCC is pretty super-powered culture wise (consider how much we bridled at the thought of Harper over-ruling a decision with the Doc. assisted self-termination issue))

If ya'll see too much power shifting away from us, or if SV wishes for a more Tyranic (like the Greek style, with power directly derived from popular support, like Bonapart I)style I certainly won't object, but I am naturally inclined to Rationally discussed check and balances, with 9 un-elected- super-smart-folk (which is a way to describe a National Supreme court system) having (semi)final say (baring the gov invoking a not-with-standing clause (which is an admittance they are opposing the Supreme Court, which is almost political suicide at this point in culture/time in Cnd)).

TLDR
Cultist salt for Days!!!

Also, politics thoughts? (re Quest specific)

I do appreciate that as Scion, we were almost immediately forced into situations where punching everyone into submission was possible, but would not actually accomplish what we wanted.

We are in fact trying to add to our pool of power equivalent people/rivals. the better to train etc. on a meta level, but also rendering the DBZ basis of Fight until you win into a more abstract event. Though i wouldn't object to carving out Grand-pa Vegeta's heart and dicing it for pigeon/carp consumption.
Fucking Asshole that he is/was. (Unless he runs an orphanage or something, he is on the "Atomize on sight list as far as I am concerned")
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That went to an interesting place quickly. :lol

Sophie as the Lady Vegeta would be hilariously controversial. There has never been a human Lord or Lady. And besides, how many nine-year-old crushes ever go someplace?

Yammar Vegeta, running an orphanage? Ideas...:rofl:
 
Remove ads
Compliant Omake: An Analysis of Freeza Style In Saiyan Society
  • Apocrypha
    • An Analysis of Frieza Style in Saiyan Society


    To say that Frieza Style is looked down upon in Saiyan society is an understatement. It is loathed by every corner of society regardless of religious beliefs (or lack thereof), political leaning, profession, or social status. There are two general reasons that people cite for this general antipathy with levels of intensity varying from person to person: the history behind the style's namesake and the intended purpose of the style.

    Though it was the Enemy who killed the Z Fighters and destroyed Earth, it's Frieza who's considered by many Saiyans to be the archenemy of their race due to their grudge being more personal. It was, after all, he who in fear of the legendary Super Saiyan wiped out Planet Vegeta and in doing so killed most of the entire Saiyan race, leaving only five survivors. To those modern Saiyans with a certain amount of pride in their ancestry, this is enough reason to hate him. To those that do not, he is still rightfully reviled for being an evil tyrant who committed genocide on countless people for fun and profit. To learn how to fight like him is to continue at least some part of his legacy, to pay homage to a horrible, twisted individual and to in part be more like him. It's no wonder why learning this style would earn the ire of many a Saiyan.

    Beyond the history tied to Frieza himself and thus the style that descends from him, there is the issue of the style itself and what it means, even without the context of its creator's nature. Frieza style is best described as overwhelmingly lethal. With such moves as the Death Ball, the Death Saucer, the Death Wave, and the Death Cannon, this is exceedingly obvious. Every move, every manoeuvre, every technique is either designed to kill or to open up an opportunity to kill. (Usually the former.) The only practical reason why anyone would want to learn Frieza Style as opposed to any other is if they intended to do a lot of killing. Since Garenhuld was chosen because it being attacked was extremely unlikely, the only practical use for this style in the hands of modern Saiyans is killing other Saiyans. The implications breed an extraordinary level of distrust of anyone who's invested a great deal of time and effort learning its methods. This also feeds into the previous arguments in that it's not only keeping some part of Frieza alive, but considering his personal hatred of the Saiyan race it's ostensibly furthering his will.

    The scars gouged by the galactic emperor run deep centuries after his death even in places where he holds so little true relevancy as Garenhuld.

    Just an idea I had floating around in my head when thinking about styles. Figured I'd write it down.
     
    Last edited:
  • Apocrypha
    • Soo, my troll brain read that as indication that we may creat the most hilariously controversial generation of Lords/Ladies in the history of the Exiles.

    Kakara the Gold. Pacifist Saiyan Scion (!!??) who turned the Oozaru form into a whole new thing.
    And Jaffur the Invincible, who developed a new incredibly potent style of Vegetan Martial Arts, who took a human wife (Sophie the Irrepressible), who herself reached Ancestor levels of prowess through the tutelage of the Lady of the Gokun.

    Together, they fight crime (and revolutionaries.)

    Edit Re: Frieza style, could it be considered the anti-Krillin style, where Krillin assumes being out-powered, Frieza style assumes overwhelming advantage, and takes advantage of this to indulge spectacle and sadism?

    Edit2: Lord Vegeta (Head cannon as Reginald (Vegie) V. Legume) as a Mansplainer actually running a government is absolutely awesome. Who doesn't have that one relative who insist that if only the people in charge would just do this one thing then all of societies ills would be solved. That guy? Actually determining policy for a race of super-powered murder-monkeys.
     
    Last edited:
    Yorick's Skull said:
    Edit Re: Frieza style, could it be considered the anti-Krillin style, where Krillin assumes being out-powered, Frieza style assumes overwhelming advantage, and takes advantage of this to indulge spectacle and sadism?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    You'd think so, but no. Frieza Style was from the start meant to fight opponents of roughly equal power. Anyone weaker than Frieza he could just roll over, the only kinds of people he'd need a fighting style for were those who could conceivably beat him with their own power like, say, the mythical Super Saiyan. He also learned how to fight from the training he got from his parents, not by casually slaughtering the various would-be heroes who tried challenging him or ganging up on him with a horde.
     
    Last edited:
    PoptartProdigy said:
    Nonetheless, it was the product of years of internal conflict. My point is that the revelations a lot of people want Kakara to come to won't be swift. These are really difficult questions that adults can't agree on. Many adults, in fact, don't agree with it, and never arrive at that conclusion -- through inability to reconcile its premises or simple distaste for them, depending on their ethical system. Kakara's only nine. Almost ten. Give her some time. If the thread plays it consistently, she'll get there. Of course, they may not, in which case who knows?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Half suspecting that contemplating pacifism and trying to force her to take more pragmatic actions would just backfire at this point personally. Any ideology has a pretty broad base: Kakara has to actually face a no-choice trolley problem AND fail to seriously consider abandoning pacifism, because at this age, it's fairly likely that a more mature Kakara COULD see how she might have managed it without killing, undermining the point they're trying to push(basically, by trying to force the matter, it only cements that deadly violence is just taking the easy way).

    She has a single defeat, and even then could see hope remains.

    Now I'm looking at less developed traits which might generate the necessary stress to evolve her Pacifism.
    -Cause - Ambivalent at this point. She had just learned the Masque is a real person, and CURRENTLY he has to die for Jaffur to live. It's a possible stress point to break either of Pacifism or the Cause...or we pursue the Golden Ending and find a way to save both.

    -Compassionate - Conflicts with Cause at present. If it's at a stronger level, the NEED to act to help people may conflict with the desire to do no harm. The meeting should trigger this, no matter the outcome.

    -Convictions - Likely to double down on Pacifism to avoid being like Lord Vegeta. Developing this with Compassionate might force a breaking point to happen sooner. No trigger for this unless someone else calls her literally Hitler again.

    -Decisive - Not much to consider on this at the moment.

    -Driven - Also likely to force a critical breaking point sooner, but the direction is unpredictable. This may have a trigger if the meeting results in more obstacles being put in the way.

    -Hot-Blooded/Inquisitive/Level-Headed/Socializer - Unlikely to force anything, or trigger anything.

    -Pacifist - Not much to trigger this at present. She's in a good place where being a pacifist is concerned.

    Summary: Not much. You can't force a personality to change. Not unless put under significant stress which cannot be alleviated without something giving way. And if we try to force the matter, it's just as likely to lose the Cause or Driven as to alter Pacifism. She has reason to doubt her cause, to doubt her determined drive. Not much to doubt that she's doing the right thing.
     
    Andres110 said:
    You'd think so, but no. Frieza Style was from the start meant to fight opponents of roughly equal power. Anyone weaker than Frieza he could just roll over, the only kinds of people he'd need a fighting style for were those who could conceivably beat him with their own power like, say, the mythical Super Saiyan. He also learned how to fight from the training he got from his parents, not by casually slaughtering the various would-be heroes who tried challenging him or ganging up on him with a horde.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    If Super is canon to this quest, Freeza never actually trained, so that can't actually be be true. Presumeably he got his fighting prowess (which made him able to do pretty well against a stronger Goku) by fighting people who could challenge him in his lower forms. Remember, while he had never shown his third form to anyone but King Cold, he had used his second form before, so there must have been fighters in the galaxy who could challenge him in his first form.
     
    Bommelom said:
    If Super is canon to this quest, Freeza never actually trained, so that can't actually be be true.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    He said to Goku when they were fighting in DBZ that the last time he felt pain was when he was training with his parents. Presumably, his comments in Resurrection F just meant he'd never trained his body to increase his power level, not that he'd never trained in fighting techniques.
     
    Andres110 said:
    Just an idea I had floating around in my head when thinking about styles. Figured I'd write it down.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    What are your thoughts on having it canonized? Regardless of how Freeza invented it, it makes sense for that to be a thing, and your presentation of it appeals. :D

    veekie said:
    Half suspecting that contemplating pacifism and trying to force her to take more pragmatic actions would just backfire at this point personally. Any ideology has a pretty broad base: Kakara has to actually face a no-choice trolley problem AND fail to seriously consider abandoning pacifism, because at this age, it's fairly likely that a more mature Kakara COULD see how she might have managed it without killing, undermining the point they're trying to push(basically, by trying to force the matter, it only cements that deadly violence is just taking the easy way).

    She has a single defeat, and even then could see hope remains.

    Now I'm looking at less developed traits which might generate the necessary stress to evolve her Pacifism.
    -Cause - Ambivalent at this point. She had just learned the Masque is a real person, and CURRENTLY he has to die for Jaffur to live. It's a possible stress point to break either of Pacifism or the Cause...or we pursue the Golden Ending and find a way to save both.

    -Compassionate - Conflicts with Cause at present. If it's at a stronger level, the NEED to act to help people may conflict with the desire to do no harm. The meeting should trigger this, no matter the outcome.

    -Convictions - Likely to double down on Pacifism to avoid being like Lord Vegeta. Developing this with Compassionate might force a breaking point to happen sooner. No trigger for this unless someone else calls her literally Hitler again.

    -Decisive - Not much to consider on this at the moment.

    -Driven - Also likely to force a critical breaking point sooner, but the direction is unpredictable. This may have a trigger if the meeting results in more obstacles being put in the way.

    -Hot-Blooded/Inquisitive/Level-Headed/Socializer - Unlikely to force anything, or trigger anything.

    -Pacifist - Not much to trigger this at present. She's in a good place where being a pacifist is concerned.

    Summary: Not much. You can't force a personality to change. Not unless put under significant stress which cannot be alleviated without something giving way. And if we try to force the matter, it's just as likely to lose the Cause or Driven as to alter Pacifism. She has reason to doubt her cause, to doubt her determined drive. Not much to doubt that she's doing the right thing.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Interesting! And also accurate, at least that bit at the end (for the rest, the usual QM shrug applies as it does for the vast majority of player analysis). You can't force a change in personality, not easily. Not that traits can't change, but it's not a simple process. But, I will say that you can force conflicts with things that aren't hardwired traits much more easily. Things that are a symptom of a trait, for instance, but not a direct component of one.

    Is that mysterious enough?

    Yes, I think that's nice and vague.

    Oh, excellent. ;)

    Andres110 said:
    @PoptartProdigy, what's the Vegeta Clan's stance on pink shirts?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Random Vegetan Clansperson: I...uh...what? They're...pink? Not personally a fan of them?

    Other Vegetan Clansperson: I am!

    Random Vegetan Clansperson: Well, good for you.

    That bit didn't make it into the histories. :lol
     
    Hey, Poptart, out of curiosity, what kind of vehicles does this planet have? Floating space-cars or just standard ones?
     
    Execute/Dumbo said:
    Hey, Poptart, out of curiosity, what kind of vehicles does this planet have? Floating space-cars or just standard ones?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I am evil.

    They have flying cars, yes. :D

    Andres110 said:
    Having it canonised sounds nice. I'd like it.

    Can Saiyans and Tech-Techs produce hybrid offspring with each other?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Ow my brain ow my brain ow my brain ow my brain BUT TARBLE IS SO INTERESTING AS A CHARACTER OW MY BRAIN-

    Urgh. Yes. This is my official notice of throwing my hands up and giving up explaining it, but yes they can. Tarble is also a thing, by the way. Like I said, interesting to work with, and presents many possibilities.

    Also, have a canon cookie threadmark!
     
    Aha! I found some canon proof that Frieza's takeover of the Saiyans happened not too long after the Saiyan-Tuffle War had concluded! Behold!
    See that under his armour? Those are the clothes the Saiyans wore prior to and during the Saiyan-Tuffle war. There's no reason why a Saiyan would wear it if the war happened so long ago as to be old history by the time the Saiyans started working for Frieza. The only explanation is that Shugesh was alive during/and/or prior to the war and kept his old clothes as a keepsake.

    Also, I found this cool little thing - Saiyan Soul. It uses the pride that Saiyans have of themselves and makes their melee and super attacks more powerful. Jaffur would've gotten a kick out of learning this one.
     
    Andres110 said:
    See that under his armour? Those are the clothes the Saiyans wore prior to and during the Saiyan-Tuffle war. There's no reason why a Saiyan would wear it if the war happened so long ago as to be old history by the time the Saiyans started working for Frieza. The only explanation is that Shugesh was alive during/and/or prior to the war and kept his old clothes as a keepsake.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    ..Firstly, where exactly do you get the information that the Saiyans only wore those clothes prior to and during the Saiyan-Tuffle war?

    Secondly, isn't the Saiyan-Tuffle war from some movie or something? Is it even canon? It's definitely not in the manga or the Bardock special, at least.
     
    Last edited:
    Bommelom said:
    ..Firstly, where exactly do you get the information that the Saiyans only wore those clothes prior to and during the Saiyan-Tuffle war?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Various images and videos show battles between the two races and they all have Saiyans wearing that kind of clothing.

    Bommelom said:
    Secondly, isn't the Saiyan-Tuffle war from some movie or something? Is it even canon? It's definitely not in the manga or the Bardock special, at least.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    It comes from DBZ when King Kai was telling Goku about the Saiyans.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Voting is open
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top