100 fold increases, then a 10 fold increase, and now a four fold increase. The overall amount may be increasing, but the relative increase is becoming lower.
100 fold increases, then a 10 fold increase, and now a four fold increase. The overall amount may be increasing, but the relative increase is becoming lower.
I don't disagree, but if Tamar is strong enough to be really confident he can handle Maya and possibly at least a few other champions as strong as she is and potentially much older and more experienced...
Well, frankly, he'd be handling Maya so roughly that we're going to have to display greater power or she might die.
That is definitely going to be an issue. But its all going to come down to a few things that we have no real info on yet. My theory is Tamar is going to be fighting at a handy cap, something that would put him on a time limit or showcase an Achilles heel, like if he was a Saiyan and expected to go Oozaru or perhaps he uses something like a Fusion technique that while we couldn't out power while fighting with our self imposed PL caps we might be able to outlast or take out with clever tactics.
The conflict there is do we put ourselves and our friends and followers in danger to further our agenda and preserve the Masquerade or do we power up, definitely ruining the illusion that Maya is exceptional strength wise and possibly reveal ourselves as Saiyans to the invaders. Those are what the big votes are going to be about in the invasion scenario, how much are we willing to commit to the deception, how much are we going to push Maya to go along now that she knows its all a lie? The conflict, unlike with the Dragon, isn't going to really be a physical one, it will hinge on how far we're willing to go to protect our secrets. Do we power up to save the Misfits when they get in trouble? Do we let Maya take a beating for us? Do we let our soldiers die for the secret? Where is our line in the sand?
Also how far do we push our own people to accept compromises they may not want in order to try and sue for peace with Tamar? Do we try and talk the Garenhuld governments into ceding territory to space refugees? How far are we willing to go for a chance at peace? Breaking out some of the more reasonable scouts in an attempt to make contact with the less bloodthirsty faction of Tamars troops? All just random idea's I've had that may or may not have anything to do with whats coming.
Sorry for being long winded, I like to muse about such things despite how wrong I usually end up being.
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 901 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 22526-22630] ##### NetTally 1.9.8
[X] Ranged. Your skill with ki refinement is still limited, and you'll only be able to keep it up when blasting. You'll contribute best this way.
-[X] Do your best to support the fighters on the ground. Knock the dragon about and impede his mobility; use your blasts to limit his options and give Dad and Yammar openings.
-[X] Warn the others about his apparent straight-up mind-reading, and the possibility that he absorbs ki - be on the lookout for him doing so, so we can adapt tactics as necessary. No. of Votes: 13
[X] Hand-to-hand. The dragon is already going to need to deal with two golden oozaru up close; you'll be able to exploit his focus on the others to get in good hits that way.
-[X] Try to keep him on the ground. He probably won't be able to maneuver well without his wings in play. No. of Votes: 2
[X][ASK] Ask your father if there is anyone who is particularily skilled at reading ki to determine emotions who could provide a live feed of the dragon's emotions. No. of Votes: 2
[X] Ranged. Your skill with ki refinement is still limited, and you'll only be able to keep it up when blasting. You'll contribute best this way.
-[X] Do your best to support the fighters on the ground. Knock the dragon about and impede his mobility; use your blasts to limit his options and give Dad and Yammar openings.
-[X] Warn the others about his apparent straight-up mind-reading, and the possibility that he absorbs ki - be on the lookout for him doing so, so we can adapt tactics as necessary.
This is good. I will write this.
[X][ASK] Ask for Dandeer to be ready to try the forced masque trick on the dragon.
[X][ASK] Ask your father if there is anyone who is particularly skilled at reading ki to determine emotions who could provide a live feed of the dragon's emotions.
[X][ASK] How powerful would be a massed Kamehameha from all the non-royals?
This is less so. The ASK task is meant for informational queries unrelated to the current task at hand, not as a way of sliding in points of action without having to contest in the main vote. I doubt that was the intent in this case, but it was the effect.
For what it's worth, everybody has some limited level of ki empathy that scales with your skill level in ki sense, but nobody has a particularly stand-out capacity for that. Combined techniques add the component power levels of all involved contributors, thus why one of the ways to deal with a super saiyan 2 is to have a noble go USSJ, hold the offender in place, and get everybody together for a mass strike. As it stands, there are (very) roughly three hundred thousand Exiles, Exile adults average 2 or so million in terms of power level, and adults comprise three-quarters of the population (torn directly and squared off to round numbers from the first result on a three-second Google search regarding USA population stats), so 225000*2000000=*scouter explodes*
450,000,000,000, to be precise. As a rough estimate.
Combined techniques add the component power levels of all involved contributors, thus why one of the ways to deal with a super saiyan 2 is to have a noble go USSJ, hold the offender in place, and get everybody together for a mass strike. As it stands, there are (very) roughly three hundred thousand Exiles, Exile adults average 2 or so million in terms of power level, and adults comprise three-quarters of the population (torn directly and squared off to round numbers from the first result on a three-second Google search regarding USA population stats), so 225000*2000000=*scouter explodes*
450,000,000,000, to be precise. As a rough estimate.
Hrmm I'll hafta remember to see if I can make an ASK about what we think the Invasion Fleet might have been able to see PL wise from this ongoing battle. Maybe as part of the next vote.
Without knowing their exact location (we might) and their sensor technology (we probably don't), it may be very hard to answer that question... But yes, trying to learn it would help.
[X] Ranged. Your skill with ki refinement is still limited, and you'll only be able to keep it up when blasting. You'll contribute best this way.
-[X] Do your best to support the fighters on the ground. Knock the dragon about and impede his mobility; use your blasts to limit his options and give Dad and Yammar openings.
-[X] Warn the others about his apparent straight-up mind-reading, and the possibility that he absorbs ki - be on the lookout for him doing so, so we can adapt tactics as necessary.
Apocalypse
Dazarel's jaws gape, and a gout of flame surges out towards you.
vip
You reappear a mile up and back, and the heat still curls your fur. You growl, and shout aloud -- no need to use telepathy with this enemy -- "HE CAN READ MINDS! AND I THINK HE CAN ABSORB KI!"
Dazarel looks up at you, eyes rolling as the gout of flame cuts off. Oh, for the love of-! This is going to be no fun if you cripple yourself based on half-baked assumptions, girl. I'm a dragon. How do you think I absorb ki? I eat people. He opens his mouth again and spews out a line of flame. You jink to the side as it flares past.
"SHIN KIKOHO!"
BANG
You wince at the sound of the blast as your grandmother opens up, Dazarel's stream of fire cutting off as he grunts under the blow. He turns his head over his shoulder to glower at her.
"I believe him now," she says, grinning.
Dazarel snarls, begins to turn -- and rocks slightly in place as Yammar hammers into the dragon's ribs, kicking off. "You're fighting me, lizard."
Dazarel screams in Yammar's face, stripping grass from the ground for miles. Pleasure, ape. He lunges forward, swiping with his claws.
vip
Your father appears next to you just as you prepare to fire a blast to divert Dazarel's charge. "Wait."
You jerk. "Crap- Dad! We need all hands-!"
He drags your hands down. "Wait. You say he's a mind reader? Then we need to address you. You're the only one who's still mentally vulnerable. The rest of us learned the exercises years ago."
You gape. "And I haven't?!"
"No," he says, annoyed. "I've been telling you for years to come to me for Mind Delve lessons if you want to learn the countermeasures. You haven't taken me up on it. Don't start yelling at me now." He places a hand on your forehead. "We'll need to put a stopgap into place for the duration of this fight."
You hear a triumphant shriek in tandem with a pained roar from Yammar, and lean over to get a better look-
Dad firmly nudges your head back into place. "Focus. If you're leaking, you're a liability, and that's worse than any number of us out for a short time." He frowns at you. "In brief, the key to blocking intrusions is to maintain a separation of your public and private thoughts. Most people think of all thoughts as private, but mind reading obviously passes that. So mark out which ones are really private -- which ones you want nothing hearing -- and back that with ki. It feels like this." He shoves at you a sensation that feels remarkably similar to reinforcing your limbs for a punch. "You can have as much or as little as you like marked as private. It helps to think of it in terms of a metaphor -- whatever makes sense to you. Now, this is probably going to take a few minutes to get something serviceable, and longer-term we'll probably need to break you of bad habits, but-" What's This? [DC 80]: 137. Bloody impressive, that's what...
"I think I've got it," you say, putting your thoughts behind a crackling lightning bolt made of ki.
Dad blinks. Then he frowns, adjusting his grip on your forehead. After a moment, he hisses, flinching back. "You certainly do. That..." He stares at you for a moment. "...vicious." He shakes himself. "Later. It'll do. Let's get back in the fight!"
vip
Dad reappears by Dazarel's tail while the dragon is busy trying to bite Yammar's arm off. Your father seizes the tail and hauls.
Watching the dragon fly up and over your father's head before slamming back to the ground is an awe-inspiring sight -- such a massive object, flipped end-over-end by something so comparatively small.
We are now secure. Comms up, and no talking, says your Dad, turning to face Dazarel.
Yammar grunts in acknowledgement, light playing over his hands as he seals some of his worse injuries.
You and Grandma Apra don't bother to reply.
vip
tsew
The two of you appear, side-by-side, hands framed in triangle shapes. She folds hers over yours, and the two of you flare auras. In unison, you shout, "KIKOHO!"
BOOM
Dazarel, only starting to scramble to his feet, vanishes into a tower of smoke and dust as the combined blast smashes into him.
In the moment after, he looses an enraged shriek, and the cloud explodes.
Ki blasts rage over the landscape, several taking you hard, unprepared as you are. You and Grandma go tumbling under the barrage. For a moment, the world seems to be a storm of shrieking blasts and tumbling sky. At some point, you slam down to earth with a bone-jarring thud. The world spins.
After a moment of dazed reorientation, you slowly hauls yourself to your feet.
Dad is miles away, but still within view. As you watch, Grandma and Yammar appear from over the horizon. The four of you reconvene, looking around the plains. Snow settles back to the ground in a light dusting -- that which hasn't been vaporized, anyway. Electricity arcs in the dust shrouding everything.
Déjà vu grips you as Dazarel stirs, turns, and shrieks, fulfilling your vision of so long ago.
A fine warmup, he says, looking no worse for wear as he sneers down at you all. Now let's begin.
He slaps his claw down on the ground, and-
THREEEEEEEEEEEE-UMP
The four of you tumble like dolls tossed about in a gale as something issues from the point of impact. In the midst of the force, you manage to fumble your fingers up to your forehead-
vip
-and reemerge miles up in the sky.
From up here it looks like a slow shockwave -- too slow to actually be a shockwave, but otherwise identical. The others are all tumbling along with it.
Before Dazarel can react to your escape, your cup your hands together. "KAMEHAMEHA!"
The blast takes Dazarel on the skull, and he halts the wave, looking up at you with some amusement. Are you volunteering?
"I am...not done yet," says Yammar, hauling himself to his feet.
You are imminently done, replies Dazarel, looking down. You all don't quite understand this, do you? This is not a battle. This is entertainment. Dinner and a show, as it were. I am unassailable to beings such as you.
"You are weaker than us," snarls your father, shaking himself. "What was that?"
There is more to strength than ki. Reality itself bows to my whims. I do not need to hone my life energy to be mighty. Dazarel shifts. Now...let us begin this fight in earnest, and finish this!
Your father and Yammar trade glances before lunging forward, coming at Dazarel from either side. Grandma Apra immediately begins pelting the dragon with blasts. You strain, dragging your ki into a shell around you and refining it down, eking out that last, incremental boost that Jaffur's trick gains you.
Dazarel backhands your father into the distance and slashes Yammar's chest half-open. He fires through your grandmother's blasts and nearly roasts her with his breath before she tumbles out of his way. And then-
SNAP
-his wings open with a thunderous noise, and he lunges up at you.
Your eyes widen. "KIKOHO!"
He powers through the blast with another flap of his wings, and-
* * *
You once reflected, when you were younger, that you could likely lose your tail entirely without noticing the loss, after your training to deal with it.
As it turns out, that is not quite the case.
* * *
You come to, vision hazy. A familiar face drifts in and out of focus.
You blink, trying to bring things into sharper clarity. "...Maya? Why...hurts...?"
Her mouth moves -- you hear nothing. You lose track of the next few moments.
Then, abruptly, clarity returns in a great rush as the feeling of Maya's ki surges through you. You gasp, chest heaving, and scramble to your feet. You turn away from her-
You stiffen, and carefully turn so you're not showing your back to her. You try to twitch your tail; a throb of quiet agony is your only answer. "What's going on," you say, carefully neutral.
"I- it's winning," says Maya. "Yo- your Dad said to giv- give you this..."
You barely register the senzu bean before snatching it out of her hands and devouring it. You do not touch your tail, as it grows back in, to reassure yourself that it's there. "Thanks," you mutter, looking for the fight.
Dazarel is, indeed, winning. Grandma is barely aloft, nevertheless hurling blast after blast into the monster's teeth. Yammar looks terrible, even if he somehow remains on his feet. Your father is the best off, likely due to his tendency to approach Dazarel from the flanks. Even he looks tired and hurt, though.
The dragon barely moves. Somehow, every step is the right one, every minuscule twitch of a claw just enough to hurt without killing, and turn aside the worst of your fellow saiyans' attacks. It...
You frown. It looks wrong, actually.
"Are they sick?" asks Maya. "They're moving like they fee- feel dizzy."
You nod absently. "Now that you mention it...yeah." It wasn't apparent when you were in the thick of things, but the problem isn't Dazarel -- it's the other nobles. Their motions seems sluggish and weak, their blasts undirected and wild. "It looks like they don't even know how their bodies work." You blink and grimace as the feeling of magic intrudes on your senses. "I see the sorcerers finally got here."
"Is that what that i- is?" says Maya, looking vaguely ill. "That feels..."
"I know," you say. "They're on our side." You look up as the wards go up all around you, just barely closing in the expanding dust cloud before it can go stratospheric. "It's not as bad as it feels." You look down at the fight and review your recollection of the start of it. "...how long have we been fighting?"
Maya shrugs, uncomfortable. "Maybe two minutes?"
You gulp. Few fights between unpowered people last as long as two minutes, let alone longer, but with ki in the mix, two minutes is barely any time at all. It certainly explains why the sorcerers have only, "finally," arrived; they're actually here faster than expected. And already, you all are losing this badly.
As you watch, Dazarel pauses, looking up at the ward. He gazes at it contemplatively, eyes narrowed in thought...
A blast from Grandma, free of the distraction she's suffering, slams into his scalp, and he shrieks, offended. He turns his attention back to her and resumes the fight, leaving the magic for later.
Your eyes narrow. "He's doing something to them. It's...I don't think it's mental. They're not acting confused, really...it just looks like they have weights on. He-" Your eyes widen. "Kais on high, it's telekinesis! How does he have teekay that good?! At 900 million?!"
"Di- didn't you tell me that th- tha- that'ssssssreally hard?" says Maya, powering through the stutter.
"It is," you say. "It's so inefficient. I only use it to grab things instead of walking over to them, and he's doing this?! He must be psychic or somethi-" You stop, mouth open.
You smack yourself in the forehead. "Psychic. Chiaotzu. Guldo. He's psychic!"
"What does that mean?" asks Maya.
"I don't know," you say, grim. "But it explains the TK, at least." You transform again, going super saiyan in a burst of golden light. "I need to get back in there."
"But what are you even goi- going to do?" says Maya. "That thing is- is-" She swallows.
"They need a break," you say. "Even if I only buy them enough time to eat senzus, they need to get away for a moment. I need to tell them what's going on, I need- I need-" You take a shuddering breath. "...FUCK! I don't know what I need!" You clench your hands in your hair. "What am I supposed to do?! How do we fight something that can use its stupid, cheaty powers to drag us down to its own weakling level!" You growl to yourself. "I, I, I, what do I do? What do I do?"
Dazarel is using some form of psychic ability to physically impede everything you try to do, making your power advantage largely irrelevant and shattering a lot of your skill bonuses. Despite taking heavy damage across the board, you have at most inconvenienced him, even with your greatest efforts. You have no hard counter to this at present. What do you do to soft-counter it?
[ ][COUNTER] The dragon's big advantage is that the effect is subtle enough to miss. If you make the others aware of it and coordinate with them, you might be able to work around it.
[ ][COUNTER] Psychic or no, history tells you that even psychics do not have infinite multitasking capabilities. They're still mortal, and they still have meat brains. It's time to call in enough reinforcements to split his focus.
[ ][COUNTER] Fire with fire. You have the largest gathering of magical might in generations right at hand. You can't stand Dandeer, but you can work with her if it means cursing this filthy lizard.
[ ][COUNTER] Phone a friend. Grandpa Gohan, I need some help here! What do I do?! Get some advice. Get a last-minute divine power-up. Get a technique. Get something! He's a god, he'll have SOMETHING!
[ ][COUNTER] Willpower push. Last-minute power-ups are traditional, right?
[ ][COUNTER] Write-in.
Do you pop off another power ball?
[ ][KAIJU] No. The means by which Dazarel is dominating you isn't raw power; more blastiness is not what you need. Speed will serve you better, in exploiting whatever openings he leaves you.
[ ][KAIJU] Yes. Dazarel might be rendering your strength irrelevant more than directly contesting it, but monkey firepower is big firepower. If he slips even for a moment, a big damn blast should hurt him just like normal.
TWO-HOUR MORATORIUM. THESE VOTES HAVE NOW CLOSED.
I have mentioned, here and there, that learning Mind Delve is the way to learn how to counter Mind Delve.
What I have not mentioned is that [THIS AND THAT] meant that Kakara was highly likely to ace the technique in one shot. Now, what she has managed is a kludgy and awful solution that she'll have to spend time unlearning before figuring out the real technique, but it's functional for now and, as Berra said, "vicious," which is impressive enough.
Dazarel's technique, mechanically, works out to flat-out removing some of your biggest combat modifiers, almost automatically for as long as it remains unnoticed (there was a roll to notice every round of fighting; you didn't beat the DC until you were out of combat and no longer had to deal with the penalty to noticing from that). Thus why he stomps all over the saiyans in this update. Now that you know what's up, you have a chance to figure out a counter...if you pick the right path.
Hope you enjoy the update, folks! Things are heating up, and we're not done yet! Choose wisely, and consider carefully. See you all around the thread.
[ ][COUNTER] The dragon's big advantage is that the effect is subtle enough to miss. If you make the others aware of it and coordinate with them, you might be able to work around it.
[ ][COUNTER] Fire with fire. You have the largest gathering of magical might in generations right at hand. You can't stand Dandeer, but you can work with her if it means cursing this filthy lizard.
[ ][COUNTER] Phone a friend. Grandpa Gohan, I need some help here! What do I do?! Get some advice. Get a last-minute divine power-up. Get a technique. Get something! He's a god, he'll have SOMETHING!
I don't think that we should do a power ball. We should muti form however. We can have each body have a stronger power level then the dragon and it makes more for it to keep track off.
I don't think that we should do a power ball. We should muti form however. We can have each body have a stronger power level then the dragon and it makes more for it to keep track off.
I think this:
[ ][COUNTER] The dragon's big advantage is that the effect is subtle enough to miss. If you make the others aware of it and coordinate with them, you might be able to work around it.
Kakara spent a lot of time learning to be a commander, she is really good at this. I think this plays to her strengths.
More weaker fighters would probably only give him people to consume, and he is prepared to face magic. Goan is a wild card, but in my opinion a "Hail Mary" one, but possibly very effective.
"No," he says, annoyed. "I've been telling you for years to come to me for Mind Delve lessons if you want to learn the countermeasures. You haven't taken me up on it. Don't start yelling at me now." He places a hand on your forehead. "We'll need to put a stopgap into place for the duration of this fight."
... You want to use hackjob ki powers when we don't even know mind delve to get into the mind of a psychic powerful enough to be winning against four foes more than 1.5 times his raw power level. Either that or you are suggesting we astral project mid fight, when that knocks us out, has been being done by herbs of some kind, and leaves us a fraction of our power when we aren't great at seer stuff.
That's well past 'bad idea' into 'are you out of your mind?'.
No, he told us before. We asked as soon as we started the conspiracy.
Edit: We probably shouldn't contact Gohan. Dragon could read Maya and learn we are vulnerable and our shade would be weaker and thus slower so it would take a while in relative time for us to help the others.
We should at least tell them of tge psychic trick first. The lack of bonus is kucking our ass.
No, he told us before. We asked as soon as we started the conspiracy.
Edit: We probably shouldn't contact Gohan. Dragon could read Maya and learn we are vulnerable and our shade would be weaker and thus slower so it would take a while in relative time for us to help the others.
We should at least tell them of tge psychic trick first. The lack of bonus is kucking our ass.
... You want to use hackjob ki powers when we don't even know mind delve to get into the mind of a psychic powerful enough to be winning against four foes more than 1.5 times his raw power level. Either that or you are suggesting we astral project mid fight, when that knocks us out, has been being done by herbs of some kind, and leaves us a fraction of our power when we aren't great at seer stuff.
That's well past 'bad idea' into 'are you out of your mind?'.
I'm not saying we should. But the logic is this. It is using psychic powers in order to stop from being beaten by foes that outclass it. If we could get into it's mind long enough to distract it, and allow the other three to beat it down, it could give us a win.
It would of course be stupidly dangerous, and our minds would probably be crushed instantly, but it is an idea. And perhaps someone could make it something workable. Perhaps by integrating the new ability we just picked up.
I'm not saying we should. But the logic is this. It is using psychic powers in order to stop from being beaten by foes that outclass it. If we could get into it's mind long enough to distract it, and allow the other three to beat it down, it could give us a win.
It would of course be stupidly dangerous, and our minds would probably be crushed instantly, but it is an idea. And perhaps someone could make it something workable. Perhaps by integrating the new ability we just picked up.
Our lacking skills at any mind-war type shenanigans are extremely unlikely to contribute more to the distraction camp than another 1.5b body on the field. Or a weaker but faster non-Oozaru body. Either way.
I'd be far more inclined to see if we can call in other Seers to do that. Kakara does not need to be doing any and every physical task herself.
Excellent question. Asking Berra prompts a guilty silence and a quick mutter about how learning Mind Delve yourself helps is the only known non-magical solution.