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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Cariyaga said:
Is Dodonpa nonlethal-capable?
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There's no obvious reason it shouldn't be as nonlethal-capable as the Kamehameha, which in its first appearance disintegrated a mountain. It's not literally Frieza's Death Beam attack.

Lailoken said:
Anyway, it sounds as if Tabe figured out how to increase the pressure on the system, which matches up with Jaron saying that Jaffur nearly blew himself up during development. Jaffur's approach sounds more like a phase change, which matches speculation about god ki.
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True, except he can't be all the way there to divine ki because we can still detect what he's doing.

Also, holy crap, remote mind delve! He could use that at any time and the target wouldn't even know.
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Wow. You're right.

Cariyaga said:
He is very much better at Intrigue than us... is it possible that he knows about the conspiracy re: Jaffur and agrees with it?
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This is conceivable, IF Berra does in fact have remote stealthy Mind Delve which maybe he doesn't based on what Fourth just said...

EXCEPT that if Berra actually agreed with us, nothing would be easier than for him to quietly contact Kakara via telepathy and say "I know you've been doing this in secret, it's a good idea even if I'm hurt that you didn't try to talk about this with me more openly, I can't help you openly, but know that when the day comes, I won't be actively opposing you."

That would make things SO MUCH easier for our conspiracy operations, even if Berra couldn't be seen to publicly help us until we'd presented him with a fait accompli by freeing Jaffur. Knowing Berra wouldn't actively fight us about this might well move up our timetable significantly.

I think he feels guilty about reading our minds that one time, and thus wouldn't do it again except in the face of national disaster for the saiyans as a whole. Maybe not even then. The reason he did it to Tabe (right, it was Tabe?) was because he DID think there was potential for national disaster... plus Tabe isn't his child.

So I strongly suspect that while Berra can and does use remote Mind Delves, he doesn't or won't do it to us. Evidence on that would be useful, when was the last time we talked to Berra about ANYTHING related to the Sealing?
 
Lailoken said:
Also, holy crap, remote mind delve! He could use that at any time and the target wouldn't even know.
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Oh boy oh boy. Looks like Mind Delve just got a thousand times more paranoia-inducing. And Berra's is only at Competent. At this rate I won't be satsified until we've gotten to Elite in it just to protect ourselves. Here's hoping nobody's ever remote delved us at all over the last few years. :facepalm:
 
Canal Prophet said:
Oh boy oh boy. Looks like Mind Delve just got a thousand times more paranoia-inducing. And Berra's is only at Competent. At this rate I won't be satsified until we've gotten to Elite in it just to protect ourselves. Here's hoping nobody's ever remote delved us at all over the last few years. :facepalm:
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He might have leveled up and we didn't know because he would not want to talk about it to us.
 
...we think of Berra as pretty nice guy, but we're viewing him through the eyes of his beloved daughter. If the growing stress, guilt, and power had started making him a bit... ruthless would we even know? We have been neglecting the saiyan governance, and his daughter is kind of the last person anybody would complain about a king they feared in front of. That was a pretty darned casual and not really necessary use of mind-delve he didn't even bother to hide.
 
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Well... borderline necessary. Knowing that Tabe isn't secretly planning to use this trick to raise up an army of saiyan rebels is KIIIND of important.

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Also, Berra does not necessarily know for sure why Kakara may have said "yes" to Tabe's request for a fight. He may be considering the possibility of Tabe Stauber as (conceivably) winding up as Kakara's first boyfriend... which would be enough to make any loving father wish for the ability to perform telepathic mind scans by remote control.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Well... borderline necessary. Knowing that Tabe isn't secretly planning to use this trick to raise up an army of saiyan rebels is KIIIND of important.

EDIT:

Also, Berra does not necessarily know for sure why Kakara may have said "yes" to Tabe's request for a fight. He may be considering the possibility of Tabe Stauber as (conceivably) winding up as Kakara's first boyfriend... which would be enough to make any loving father wish for the ability to perform telepathic mind scans by remote control.
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Still, mind-delving seems to be generally regarded as a pretty extreme measure. Summarily doing it to the child heir of a loyal house when his daughter is already interrogating him and no alternative investigations have even been attempted strikes one as disturbingly callous, and both Tabe and Kakara seem to agree. Perhaps the most important part is that he was so caviler about telling them when he could have easily kept it quiet. That implies an almost dictatorial level of presumption by Gokun standards.

-and the mind of the teenage boy who just made a pass at his daughter is probably the last place a father is going to be comfortable exploring.
 
Lailoken said:
Still, mind-delving seems to be generally regarded as a pretty extreme measure. Summarily doing it to the child heir of a loyal house when his daughter is already interrogating him and no alternative investigations have even been attempted strikes one as disturbingly callous, and both Tabe and Kakara seem to agree.
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Tabe is the one whose mind was just peeked into, and Kakara is weird. It's hardly to be taken for granted that it is an excess to do this -- for all we know, Tabe's mother asked Berra to do so.
 
Cariyaga said:
Tabe is the one whose mind was just peeked into, and Kakara is weird. It's hardly to be taken for granted that it is an excess to do this -- for all we know, Tabe's mother asked Berra to do so.
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On the other hand, the seer absolutely flipped the table when he found out that his student might have even accidentally done so, to the point of demanding that she make a ritual apology and restitution under a sorcery-enforced geas of secrecy.
 
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Lailoken said:
On the other hand, the seer absolutely flipped the table when he found out that his student might have even accidentally done so, to the point of demanding that she make a ritual apology and restitution under a sorcery-enforced gaes of secrecy.
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I... don't have any recollection of this at all, can you remind me of the context of this?

e: To preemptorily respond, such that it does not come across as whataboutism, my thought is that it may very well be the Goku/Vegeta House Head/Heir's duty to use mind delve during circumstances like this.
 
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Cariyaga said:
Ah. Then yes, it very well may be that Berra is overstepping bounds unless Tabe's mother gave him permission.
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He probably isn't technically. Summary execution was on the table, after all. I'm more concerned about the attitude his almost flippant implementation suggests. I'm always paranoid about ways for the GM to screw the players, and with how we've been neglecting the "feeling out" actions and saiyan governance or even socializing Kakara only getting the faintest hints that her father is going a bit, "Off with her head!", is a prime candidate for the player tears which fuel every GM.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Stacking multiple "endurance burnout" techinques sounds pretty reckless. I suspect you'd end up in a situation where it basically comes down to "roll the dice ONCE on ending the fight with a single blow, or get ripped to shreds and the quest comes to a Bad End." There are very few situations where that's a good idea.
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On the other hand it sounds like a great way to train endurance, DBZ does have a theme on stacking de-buffs/drains/hostile-effects in order to train.
 
Carrnage said:
On the other hand it sounds like a great way to train endurance, DBZ does have a theme on stacking de-buffs/drains/hostile-effects in order to train.
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I think it would be better to stack them one at a time, honestly. There does have to be such a thing as 'overtraining' that hurts you more than it helps, even in a shonen setting.

[I suspect that what makes training under sages and demigods like Master Roshi and King Kai so useful is that they have an amazing ability to train you AT the limit where Shonen Power means you thrive under the training regimen... without pushing you over the line to where you start tearing yourself apart. I suspect this has a lot to do with how Goku manages to outpace Vegeta; from his early Dragonball days he didn't learn to train harder than Vegeta, but he did learn to train more effectively.]
 
Simon_Jester said:
I think it would be better to stack them one at a time, honestly. There does have to be such a thing as 'overtraining' that hurts you more than it helps, even in a shonen setting.

[I suspect that what makes training under sages and demigods like Master Roshi and King Kai so useful is that they have an amazing ability to train you AT the limit where Shonen Power means you thrive under the training regimen... without pushing you over the line to where you start tearing yourself apart. I suspect this has a lot to do with how Goku manages to outpace Vegeta; from his early Dragonball days he didn't learn to train harder than Vegeta, but he did learn to train more effectively.]
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I suspect Saiyan biology doesn't worry about overtraining the same way humans do, what with Zenkais being a thing. We'd probably run it by our mum before doing it though, so it'd be caught either way.

I recall someone saying someone in the RP had a Ki Control talent that effectively doubled their endurance, which frankly sounds ideal for us.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
I recall someone saying someone in the RP had a Ki Control talent that effectively doubled their endurance, which frankly sounds ideal for us.
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Speaking as both the player of the character in question and the best friend of the real life person behind that character, it'll be quite some time before Kakara is good enough to get that talent. If ever.
 
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