Remove ads

Dragon Ball: After the End

Voting is open
Reader mode
PoptartProdigy said:
Some people have not seen Dragon Ball: Super yet. With the ongoing release of Super in English, that number is about to drop precipitously. Unless I specify otherwise either here or in a threadmarked update, with later threadmarks trumping earlier ones, all Super episodes with official English dubs are to be considered open for discussion, with yet-to-be-dubbed episodes remaining spoilers. As a general courtesy rule, please continue to use spoiler boxes for anything that is a spoiler according to the above rule.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Huh, didn't know it was revealed in Super. Even so, that Planet Vegeta isn't the original Saiyan homeworld is revealed in GT and the Bardock special, even if the canonicity of that is questionable.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Interesting that Grandpa isn't following Garenhuld/us closely enough to know about the dragon already. He must do a lot of paperwork in his role usually, unless that's some expert foreshadowing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As I understand it, Dragonball gods are, for lack of a term, hyperscient without being omniscient. They know a lot have have means of knowing far more than a mortal normally could... but they don't know everything and important facts can be hidden from them. Especially factual details like "what are these mortals thinking of in their Seer visions?" and "What giant monster is thousands of light-years from a planet and slowly heading for it?"

Uh... do we know what Gohan is god of? Might be domain-related.

Lailoken said:
Saiyans are neotenic great apes whose vestigial adult form only emerges under specific conditions. SSJ is their residual transformation potential coupling with their development of the neotenic form since then.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The problematic question from an evolutionary point of view would be, how did they evolve for neoteny? It's hardly unprecedented (homo sapiens has neotenic features compared to other primates). But in this case, the "base" saiyan form is so much physically weaker and less capable than the oozaru form. It's a bit hard to imagine an evolutionary environment where the rewards for sticking with it justify the barrier of difficulty in evolving a neotenous body.

The best I can come up with is that it's the equivalent of insular dwarfism. Say, the original ancestral saiyan environment was originally resource/energy-rich, so a species that started out as human-sized monkey-people emerged that had a ki-fueled transformation into gigantic apes as their version of "puberty." As the ecosystem became less capable of supporting the appetite of a full-sized oozaru, the ability to transform back into the smaller and RELATIVELY less voracious "saiyan" form became selected for. Because the extra power of the oozaru form didn't offset the greater appetites and reduced intelligence when it came to being able to survive and thrive.
 
Simon_Jester said:
As I understand it, Dragonball gods are, for lack of a term, hyperscient without being omniscient. They know a lot have have means of knowing far more than a mortal normally could... but they don't know everything and important facts can be hidden from them. Especially factual details like "what are these mortals thinking of in their Seer visions?" and "What giant monster is thousands of light-years from a planet and slowly heading for it?"

Uh... do we know what Gohan is god of? Might be domain-related.

The problematic question from an evolutionary point of view would be, how did they evolve for neoteny? It's hardly unprecedented (homo sapiens has neotenic features compared to other primates). But in this case, the "base" saiyan form is so much physically weaker and less capable than the oozaru form. It's a bit hard to imagine an evolutionary environment where the rewards for sticking with it justify the barrier of difficulty in evolving a neotenous body.

The best I can come up with is that it's the equivalent of insular dwarfism. Say, the original ancestral saiyan environment was originally resource/energy-rich, so a species that started out as human-sized monkey-people emerged that had a ki-fueled transformation into gigantic apes as their version of "puberty." As the ecosystem became less capable of supporting the appetite of a full-sized oozaru, the ability to transform back into the smaller and RELATIVELY less voracious "saiyan" form became selected for. Because the extra power of the oozaru form didn't offset the greater appetites and reduced intelligence when it came to being able to survive and thrive.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, they have a tradition of sending their infants off to other worlds, and the only ones we've ever seen were descended from the ones who could fit on a spaceship will enough to escape their dying world, plus the apes are pretty rage-crazy and stupid to be building spaceships in the first place.
 
[X] Choosing is for chumps. Multiform!

Multiform is the perfect technique for SV. It gives us more actions and lets us do all of the social options.
 
Andres110 said:
[X] Choosing is for chumps. Multiform!

Multiform is the perfect technique for SV. It gives us more actions and lets us do all of the social options.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
On a related note, if we don't manage to work on it next year I'm going to stage a coup. I'm probably going to put 2 Research: Multiform actions in the yearly action scramble plan and just eat the minor malus, to try and get PM done some time this decade.
 
Lailoken said:
Well, they have a tradition of sending their infants off to other worlds, and the only ones we've ever seen were descended from the ones who could fit on a spaceship will enough to escape their dying world, plus the apes are pretty rage-crazy and stupid to be building spaceships in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The way I figure it, they must have been spending most of their time as human-sized beings long before they invented technology and made it off their homeworld.
 
[X] Choosing is for chumps. Multiform!
I confess that I see little downside in constantly choosing the multiform option.
I have almost no clue what the domain of Gohan would be.
Also, would it be possible to train in the other world with Jiichan?
He likely possess a substantial number of forgotten techniques and such, not to mention the possibility of viral Saiyan God transformations.
Is the present assumption that the Enemy can sense divine ki? As far as I can remember, he hasn't done anything that would require him to be a god.
Is there a power requirement to learning the God transformation, or is it just 'training with a god and the need for it'.
I am somewhat suprised that the multiform option wasn't auto choosen.
Does Kakara know anything more about ki mutants than what has been said so far? Do Ki mutants suffer from diminishing returns after a certain point,
or do they have health problems or something?
We should probably try to figure out if we can use our seer powers to enhance the Genki Dama.
Is there a substantial chance that she has an insufficiently pure heart for the Genki Dama?
I think we should seriously consider training the god form in secret.
Has anyone in modern history tried for a god form?
Dragon ball gods are essentially extra mystical really powerful people that are stupidly hard to detect, with a single gimmick around a single theme. Gohan, depending on his Authority, might genuinely not know.
Also, random curiousity makes me ask if Kakara could tell Videl's power level.
 
Last edited:
So, for the Spirit Bomb Research check we have several Greater Bonuses (Bonii?) that could apply, a Lesser Bonus, Grandpa's advice, expedited panic-researching... I'm pretty optimistic about passing this check.

So, assuming we pull it off, I wonder what it'll do to our reputation? It's another big discovery we've made, so we might get a Reputation for discovering/inventing new stuff. It's a pretty iconic Z-Fighter move - arguably the most iconic/important, depending on your perspective. On top of this, while it's not clear whether or not being "pure of heart" actually matters in this quest, I could absolutely see that being a strongly-held belief amongst the Exiles. I wonder how Dandeer would respond to us getting a Reputation for being "Pure of Heart"? Our other reputations involve our skills, our strength, our suitability to lead - how would people react to us if we get one for just being a genuinely great person?
 
Last edited:
Another explanation for why Kakara can learn the spirt bomb when others have failed.

You need to be pure of heart. Kakara is young most researchers were old at least 20.
 
We've seen in this update that the Spirit Bomb requires sensing ki in a way that forces the user to acknowledge how All is One. That would certainly help encourage an outlook that could be seen as "pure of heart"; maybe that's where the belief originated?
 
Now that we know Genki dama is an application of ki sense I wonder if we could do it better well Multiformed? Each of our Multiforms has just as good ki sense as the orginal and their power level should not matter.
 
Last edited:
Completely unrelated to the topic but... here is Kakara in a couple of years:
 
Jirachi47 said:
Also, would it be possible to train in the other world with Jiichan?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think Gohan would want us to do this, based on his own past words, at least not in the near future. We can't visit him very long at a time, you know.

He likely possess a substantial number of forgotten techniques and such, not to mention the possibility of viral Saiyan God transformations.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are DEFINITE reasons to think this is not an option. Among them, the existing celestial bureaucracy not wanting to be overwhelmed by a horde of random freshly deified saiyans.

Is the present assumption that the Enemy can sense divine ki? As far as I can remember, he hasn't done anything that would require him to be a god.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He is definitely a powerful magic-user. I would not rule out him having a way of sensing divine ki. And if he CAN sense it, then it's going to be a beacon drawing him to us over huge distances, because he'll want to snuff out the threat of a horde of saiyans ascending to divinity, at least assuming that's possible.

I am somewhat suprised that the multiform option wasn't auto choosen.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because Poptart is trying to give us the option of actually focusing on one thing at a time? In principle?

I can see people gradually getting a bit uncomfortable with Kakara using Multiform ALL THE TIME, you know. Like "Uh... am I important enough to you to be worth your full attention? No? Darn." Imagine how Kakara's future significant other would feel about it, for instance.

Is there a substantial chance that she has an insufficiently pure heart for the Genki Dama?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It seems unlikely to me that Kakara has a heart less pure than Goku.

I think we should seriously consider training the god form in secret.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If we succeed, we may draw the Enemy down on us practically instantly. We don't know enough about the context to risk it, and our odds of succeeding without divine tutelage are extremely poor.

fictionfan said:
Now that we know Genki dama is an application of ki sense I wonder if we could do it better well Multiformed? Each of our Multiforms has just as good ki sense as the orginal and their power level should not matter.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Worth experimenting with, but I'd rather NOT rely on it automatically being better by a large enough margin to make it our main method of trying to develop the thing in the first place.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top