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Dragon Ball: After the End

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mithril-blade said:
To wit, Tien didn't manage to recover fast enough from a blast of it to avoid getting knocked out by an old man significantly weaker then him
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No. At that point in time Tien and Roshi were definitely on roughly the same level. If Roshi hadn't resigned his fight against Tien in the tournament whoever won, and it was still in doubt, would definitely have been too exhausted to beat Goku.
 
fictionfan said:
You mean she could not figure it out?
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Nah, someone beat her in a foot race using Piccolo's extending leg technique sneakily on the last stretch (pun intended). Recall that her Intrigue sucks.

She's been mad about it ever since, and won't study any of Piccolo's stuff as a result.

I wonder how good she is at Satan Style...
 
The Fourth Monado said:
Yes, she can lose expertly :V
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Kakara's Mom is so good at Satan Style that she can lose with grace and class.

Kakara's Mom once beat a computer at tic-tac-toe. As O.

Kakara's Mom can learn any style that doesn't require being green.

Someone once thought Kakara's Mom was wrong. Their body was never found.

A compelling theory goes that if Kakara's Mom is ever proven wrong, the Universe will retroactively change until she no longer is.

If Kakara's Mom doesn't know the answer, the question doesn't have one.
 
mithril-blade said:
All of which is funny because I seriously wonder if you think that "non-lethally" taking a person out doesn't hurt. Do you figure that getting knocked out hurts LESS then the technique?
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Why yes, I do expect that getting knocked out hurts less than the technique explicitly made to torture opponents into submission.

I also do not see it as likely to accomplish a ko, given it's observed parameters, where landing a knock out punch has taken the opponent out of the fight, so even if it hurt exactly as much it accomplished the job.

mithril-blade said:
See, that's convulated. Because if I had said "We should use Kamehameha" I doubt you would have assumed that I wanted to kill someone. You would have instead asked "what for?"
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You are incorrect- I would equally have attempted to parse your intent based on context. If I could come up with no possibilities, I likely would have gone to asking.

In the context of 'non-lethal takedowns', I may have had doubts about feasibility but would probably have assumed you'd want the pulling your punches edition of a Kamehameha.

Which the Kamehameha is actually pretty suitable for, where eg the destructo disc is not.
 
mithril-blade said:
A true master of Satan Style can avoid fighting at all and still convince other people that he won.
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You joke, but that's literally what it would be. It is to social-fu as normal Styles are to regular combat.

Hell, Kakara already practices this form of it, at least among the Saiyans. Satan (Social) Style would likely be all about using one's pre-existing position within society to convince people of things. Guess what tactics Kakara's used before?
 
Terrabrand said:
Why yes, I do expect that getting knocked out hurts less than the technique explicitly made to torture opponents into submission.
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And never actually used to do that.

I also do not see it as likely to accomplish a ko, given it's observed parameters, where landing a knock out punch has taken the opponent out of the fight, so even if it hurt exactly as much it accomplished the job.
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Hitting someone enough to knock them out would hurt significantly before the last punch that actually knocked them out puts them out.

There are many thing that would hurt significantly more then the technique does that happen in a regular fight.

Dislocations.
Broken bones.
Burst organs.
Etc.

The only the technique can hurt more is if you purposefully go out of your way to prolong it as long as you can.



]You are incorrect- I would equally have attempted to parse your intent based on context. If I could come up with no possibilities, I likely would have gone to asking.

In the context of 'non-lethal takedowns', I may have had doubts about feasibility but would probably have assumed you'd want the pulling your punches edition of a Kamehameha.

Which the Kamehameha is actually pretty suitable for, where eg the destructo disc is not.
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\
In that case, I contest that the ONLY context you've been looking at was the intention with which the technique was made, rather then how it's actually been used in the show.
 
Why are we discussing Roshi's technique again? From what I gather of the conversation, it was brought up as a way to immobilise the opponent... which seems kind of ridiculous when telekinesis is a thing and more versatile.

I am with @Terrabrand on this one. If you bring up a technique that has as main effect to cause pain then even if you do because it holds the opponent still then the natural assumption is that you do so because of the main effect, especially since we already know a technique that does the desired side effect.

I get that the idea came from its use in the recent chapters in Super but it seems kind of silly to get worked up like this from a perfectly reasonable misunderstanding.

Edit: Also, were those chapters even dubbed yet? Most people are familiar with it from its use in tge 21st martial art tournament in which it was used to cause pain. So of course they would associate it with pain.

Its most recent use in super also caused incredible pain to the victim though.
 
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Bakkasama said:
Why are we discussing Roshi's technique again? From what I gather of the conversation, it was brought up as a way to immobilise the opponent... which seems kind of ridiculous when telekinesis is a thing and more versatile.

I am with @Terrabrand on this one. If you bring up a technique that has as main effect to cause pain then even if you do because it holds the opponent still then the natural assumption is that you do so because of the main effect, especially since we already know a technique that does the desired side effect.

I get that the idea came from its use in the recent chapters in Super but it seems kind of silly to get worked up like this from a perfectly reasonable misunderstanding.
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We can even do better than that with the ki blocking technique.
 
Bakkasama said:
Why are we discussing Roshi's technique again? From what I gather of the conversation, it was brought up as a way to immobilise the opponent... which seems kind of ridiculous when telekinesis is a thing and more versatile.
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I contest that telekinesis can cover all of our immobolizing needs. After all, it's not like it can't be resisted and while Roshi's can to, we see him use it on significantly stronger people then him. With telekinesis, you NEED to be better with it then your opponents are with their ability to simply fly away.

In short, weak people are not the ones we need to worry about taking down nonlethally. It's the strong ones.

fictionfan said:
We can even do better than that with the ki blocking technique.
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Which one is that one?
 
mithril-blade said:
Which one is that one?
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The one only seers like us can use that Sensei Carrick used to defeat both mom and dad when we were born. Sensei is also rather weak for a saiyan, not even a millon power level. It locks the opponent's ability to use ki away for a while.

Edit: He used it on us when we met him iirc.
 
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Bakkasama said:
The one only seers like us can use that Sensei Carrick used to defeat both mom and dad when we were born. Sensei is also rather weak for a saiyan, not even a millon power level. It locks the opponent's ability to use ki away for a while.
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So, like, that's the only thing we need to beat the Enemy? Get him one good time with the ki blocking technique? I am not sure it's as simply as that. Otherwise, there would be no need for any other technique.
 
Bakkasama said:
The one only seers like us can use that Sensei Carrick used to defeat both mom and dad when we were born. Sensei is also rather weak for a saiyan, not even a millon power level. It locks the opponent's ability to use ki away for a while.
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That is a...slight misrepresentation of what happened.

Namely: You have just given birth/just watched your wife give birth to what is -- obviously -- the most beautiful, perfect baby girl in creation, and the master Seer Carrick Balor has come to either ordain her as the next Scion or tell you to make another.

Things you expect to happen during the next five seconds:
  1. Seer Carrick ordains Kakara as Scion
  2. Seer Carrick shrugs, tells you to try again, and leaves
Things you do not expect to happen during the next five seconds:
  1. Seer Carrick has a seizure and then immediately attacks you before threatening you with death if you contest his judgement of Kakara as Scion in any way -- which is doubly unexpected as such disagreement is utterly without precedence
In short, he took them as off-guard as is possible without the victim being asleep. The technique is useful, yes, but your father would still take Sensei Carrick out to the trash if he tried that again.
Only once your views on violence became clear did your parents start to realize why Carrick may have felt these measures were necessary...
 
PoptartProdigy said:
That is a...slight misrepresentation of what happened.

Namely: You have just given birth/just watched your wife give birth to what is -- obviously -- the most beautiful, perfect baby girl in creation, and the master Seer Carrick Balor has come to either ordain her as the next Scion or tell you to make another.

Things you expect to happen during the next five seconds:
  1. Seer Carrick ordains Kakara as Scion
  2. Seer Carrick shrugs, tells you to try again, and leaves
Things you do not expect to happen during the next five seconds:
  1. Seer Carrick has a seizure and then immediately attacks you before threatening you with death if you contest his judgement of Kakara as Scion in any way -- which is doubly unexpected as such disagreement is utterly without precedence
In short, he took them as off-guard as is possible without the victim being asleep. The technique is useful, yes, but your father would still take Sensei Carrick out to the trash if he tried that again.
Only once your views on violence became clear did your parents start to realize why Carrick may have felt these measures were necessary...
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Do we have any info on how useful the technique is against roughly peer opponents?
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Many.
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What I take from that is we inherited both our fathers social/political brain, and our mothers academic brain. Then add our Ki brain on top.

Now, if only we used the second one more. :V

...Why do I get the feeling that if we raise our grades and starting taking Power of Learning, she'll start crying in joy?
PoptartProdigy said:
Only once your views on violence became clear did your parents start to realize why Carrick may have felt these measures were necessary...
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Yeah, can imagine if someone like Reverse!Vegeta had a Scion like Kakara?

Hell, even someone like Yammar?

Of course, the implication is that either desire/willingness to fight is not part of the criteria, or that it is, but we were suitable regardless. Oh, the fun that revelation would cause!
 
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