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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Also another important reason to only spend one point on finding the scouts.

Overwork.

The more actions we take, the more mentally stressed we might end up with.

*will be doing more relaxing/hanging out with friends options in future years*
 
Sucal said:
Mother has expert teaching, In almost any situation where she has the skill, she is the superior option AND we don't automatically see out the best possible option (see Oozaru training). Plus by delibrately spending more time with each of our major family members they are less concerned about where we are when we aren't with them.
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Whether she has Elite Teaching or not is completely irrelevant and is no reason for you to include it. We get the best teacher possible for a skill by default. If Mum is the best person to teach us Tien Style, she will teach us Tien Style whether we explicitly include her in the action or not. If she isn't the best teacher for Tien Style, if there was someone who could teach us the Tien Style better so that we learn faster and better, then we would be relegated to an inferior option because we chose to explicitly choose Mum.

As for your excuse about spending time with family, that is wholly insufficient to sway me. It is simply not that big a deal.
 
Andres110 said:
I don't want Kakara to do involve herself in the war any more than she has to. You just made your plan seem even worse than it was before.
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Respectfully, there's literally only 4 Super Saiyans on the planet. It is extraordinarily unlikely that we won't be ordered by Dad to take part in fighting, given that the only sane option the Exiles have regarding the scouts or the main force is to crush it so fast it doesn't have time to send off a message or an escapee. If the scouts are found, we'll be called in anyway (as in, in both plans) - this just has us as one of the ones looking for them.
EDIT: I'm pointing this out assuming that your objection is what happens when the scouts are found and a fight happens, not Kakara spending time looking for the scouts with her ki.

DOUBLE EDIT: Also, I think that since we are known to have Exceptional Ki Sensing, if we organise a search with our best sensors and seers and then don't ourselves take part, it might lead to awkward questions like "Why aren't you helping? What are you doing instead that's so important?" Especially after making a promise to take part more in Lordly affairs to the Cult, these are questions we don't want asked.

Sucal said:
Also another important reason to only spend one point on finding the scouts.

Overwork.

The more actions we take, the more mentally stressed we might end up with.

*will be doing more relaxing/hanging out with friends options in future years*
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Ah, but we're training a bunch of Ki Talents stuff this year- @PoptartProdigy explicitly said that we love that so much that we auto-succeed any stress rolls on turns we do that turn unless a family member dies.


To be clear, about the Perfect Multiform Research: If I didn't have it there, I would have another Multiform Training action instead. I think whether or not we reach Exceptional Multiform this action is very much in question without the bonuses from both PM Research and Exceptional Ki Control. This is the last bonus action we will likely be able to obtain for some time.
 
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[X] Plan Deathbybunnies MK2

With the recruiting Sensei action being at the bottom of that huge write in, I thought it didn't have an action involving breaking the seal for a moment... fortunately, I saw it just before posting about it.
 
Bakkasama said:
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies MK2

With the recruiting Sensei action being at the bottom of that huge write in, I thought it didn't have an action involving breaking the seal for a moment... fortunately, I saw it just before posting about it.
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Haha! I had it there because it was a late addition, after combining it with Contact Jaffur.
 
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 350 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.9
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies MK2
[X] Raise Grades (3 actions)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya
--[X] With Dad
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action)
[X] Command Training (1 action)
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED)
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action)
[X] Ki (1 action, may be taken multiple times)
-[X] Flight
-[X] Multiform (After Flight, so as to benefit from Ki Talents levelling up)
[X] Research Project (1 action)
-[X] Perfect Multiform
[X] Organise the better ki sensors of the two clans into patrols, searching for the enemy scouts - now that they aren't shielded by their ships' armour, hopefully any slipups will be detectable. (2 actions)
-[X] Develop a plan that involves minimal loss of life, for the sake of gaining information (and your personal ethics). You (and Dad) can use Instant Transmission and/or Solar Flare to move in and incapacitate the scouts, while the rest of the group makes sure no one gets away or gets off a message.
--[X] This probably isn't Plan A, especially before you have an idea of how easily the enemy can sense you or send back info. But it's worth having a plan at hand in case the opportunity presents itself. (And boy, do you hope it does.)
---[X]Organise some trained seers as a response to the alien invasion. Initially attempt to scry the past on the ship to gain more information on the aliens and use that information to track them down though both Sight and other plans.
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 Action)
-[X] Since he's now part of the conspiracy and a much better Seer than us, he should Mind Project into Jaffur!
No. of Votes: 10
Plan: ◈Deathbybunnies MK2
Bakkasama
ChronOblivion
Deathbybunnies
ElleonXan
fictionfan
KaintukeeBob
Langevin
MagikarpLvl58
Quest
Terrabrand
[x] Plan Sucal MK6
[X]Raise Grades (3)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya,
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action):
[X] Train Tien Style x 2 (With mum if she knows it)
[X] Train Talent (Flight) (1 Action)
[x] Train Talent (Multiform) (1 Action)
[X] Study Jaffur's Form (1 action):
-[X] With Mato.
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED):
-[X] Train Mind Projection
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 action):
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action):
[X] Organize Saiyan patrols to try and sniff out the scouts through ki and scent. (1 Action)
No. of Votes: 9
Plan: ◈Sucal MK6
adaer
Aranfan
Carrnage
ChildishChimera
Karnax626
KnightDisciple
pianoman
Sucal
The Fourth Monado
[x]Plan Sucal MK5
[X]Raise Grades (3)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya,
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action):
[X] Train Tien Style x 2 (With mum if she knows it)
[X] Train Talent (Flight) (1 Action) With Mum
[X] Study Jaffur's Form (1 action): l.
-[X] With Mato.
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED):
-[X] Train Mind Projection
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 action):
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action):
[X] Organise the better ki sensors of the two clans into patrols, searching for the enemy scouts - now that they aren't shielded by their ships' armour, hopefully any slipups will be detectable. (2 actions)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Sucal MK5
Lupercal
[X] Plan Compromise
[X]Raise Grades (3)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya
--[X] With Dad
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action):
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED):
-[X] Train Mind Projection
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action):
[X] Organise the better ki sensors of the two clans into patrols, searching for the enemy scouts - now that they aren't shielded by their ships' armour, hopefully any slipups will be detectable. (2 actions)
-[X] Try and get the Seers scrying systematically across the planet. And looking into the past, to get hints.
-[X] Finally, see if anyone has trained in using their sense of smell. Perhaps they could track them down by scent? They're not from Garenhuld, so they could smell different.
-[X] Try not just to sense ki, but the absence of Ki. We know that they have material that blocks ki sense. However if it blocks ki sense we should be able to sense the blockages in the same way that we can detect a perfectly black airship in the sky because it block the stars.
[X] Train Talent (Flight) (1 Action)
[X] Train Tien Style (1 Action)
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 Action)
[X] Ki (1 Action)
-[X] Multiform (After Flight, so as to benefit from Ki Talents levelling up)
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Compromise
Gore17
[X] Whatever other plan focuses on schoolwork enough to get us straight A's again.
No. of Votes: 1
rkyeun
Total No. of Voters: 22

Plan Deathbybunnies has pulled ahead! These votes are always so close.

EDIT: Forgot to edit in Sucal MK6's actual plan.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
I got that point by looking at how we were the one being checked in on, when the Exiles were scanning for the scout ship. The only way that made sense to me is if Kakara's Exceptional Ki Sensing is so rare that there are very few sensors on her level - in which case, she should be in demand for this mission.
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ElleonXan said:
Fair enough, though I still think Berra's enough of a father that he's going to try to keep us off the "front lines", as it were. And while I'm a little more in favor of going out ourselves, I'm just going to go ahead and preemptively predict that we're going to have at least one "discussion" with Berra where he tries to talk us out of going and/or demands we give him a reason on why we should go... if not outright forbids us from going. (Depending on how the dice fall.) He may have made some horrible decisions, but I do think deep down he wants to be a good father.

EDIT: Actually, strike that. Reread a couple of parts and you're right. Berra's a dick and I hereby withdraw my objection.
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With the intel you have in the scout's leader, Berra pretty much figures that you're invincible on this battlefield, yeah. Right up to the point where you couldn't find them and they turned out to have snuck past you, he was treating it more as a father/daughter outing than actual combat.

Deathbybunnies said:
Ah, but we're training a bunch of Ki Talents stuff this year- @PoptartProdigy explicitly said that we love that so much that we auto-succeed any stress rolls on turns we do that turn unless a family member dies.
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That was a benchmark, mind, but yes.
 
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 350 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.9
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies MK2
[X] Raise Grades (3 actions)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya
--[X] With Dad
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action)
[X] Command Training (1 action)
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED)
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action)
[X] Ki (1 action, may be taken multiple times)
-[X] Flight
-[X] Multiform (After Flight, so as to benefit from Ki Talents levelling up)
[X] Research Project (1 action)
-[X] Perfect Multiform
[X] Organise the better ki sensors of the two clans into patrols, searching for the enemy scouts - now that they aren't shielded by their ships' armour, hopefully any slipups will be detectable. (2 actions)
-[X] Develop a plan that involves minimal loss of life, for the sake of gaining information (and your personal ethics). You (and Dad) can use Instant Transmission and/or Solar Flare to move in and incapacitate the scouts, while the rest of the group makes sure no one gets away or gets off a message.
--[X] This probably isn't Plan A, especially before you have an idea of how easily the enemy can sense you or send back info. But it's worth having a plan at hand in case the opportunity presents itself. (And boy, do you hope it does.)
---[X]Organise some trained seers as a response to the alien invasion. Initially attempt to scry the past on the ship to gain more information on the aliens and use that information to track them down though both Sight and other plans.
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 Action)
-[X] Since he's now part of the conspiracy and a much better Seer than us, he should Mind Project into Jaffur!
No. of Votes: 10
Plan: ◈Deathbybunnies MK2
Bakkasama
ChronOblivion
Deathbybunnies
ElleonXan
fictionfan
KaintukeeBob
Langevin
MagikarpLvl58
Quest
Terrabrand
[x] Plan Sucal MK6
[X]Raise Grades (3)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya,
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action):
[X] Train Tien Style x 2 (With mum if she knows it)
[X] Train Talent (Flight) (1 Action)
[x] Train Talent (Multiform) (1 Action)
[X] Study Jaffur's Form (1 action):
-[X] With Mato.
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED):
-[X] Train Mind Projection
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 action):
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action):
[X] Organize Saiyan patrols to try and sniff out the scouts through ki and scent. (1 Action)
No. of Votes: 10
Plan: ◈Sucal MK6
adaer
Aranfan
Carrnage
ChildishChimera
Karnax626
KnightDisciple
Lupercal
pianoman
Sucal
The Fourth Monado
[X] Plan Compromise
[X]Raise Grades (3)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya
--[X] With Dad
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action):
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED):
-[X] Train Mind Projection
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action):
[X] Organise the better ki sensors of the two clans into patrols, searching for the enemy scouts - now that they aren't shielded by their ships' armour, hopefully any slipups will be detectable. (2 actions)
-[X] Try and get the Seers scrying systematically across the planet. And looking into the past, to get hints.
-[X] Finally, see if anyone has trained in using their sense of smell. Perhaps they could track them down by scent? They're not from Garenhuld, so they could smell different.
-[X] Try not just to sense ki, but the absence of Ki. We know that they have material that blocks ki sense. However if it blocks ki sense we should be able to sense the blockages in the same way that we can detect a perfectly black airship in the sky because it block the stars.
[X] Train Talent (Flight) (1 Action)
[X] Train Tien Style (1 Action)
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 Action)
[X] Ki (1 Action)
-[X] Multiform (After Flight, so as to benefit from Ki Talents levelling up)
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Compromise
Gore17
[X] Whatever other plan focuses on schoolwork enough to get us straight A's again.
No. of Votes: 1
rkyeun
Total No. of Voters: 22


@Lupercal has sneakily changed their vote to a blanket Sucal! We are once again at an impasse! I hope they realised both plans had been changed since they first voted.

There's no one left for me to tag that I haven't already tagged, except maybe @Gore17 ; I asked earlier if you would consider voting for me despite your distaste for both main votes, on the basis that after changing my plan it was closest to your Compromise. Does the deadlock change your mind?

Otherwise, all I can do is quote my arguments in favour of my plan again, and hope someone comes along to break the tie.

Deathbybunnies said:
I took my list of differences between the plans and updated it:

So! Plan Sucal's strengths are thus:
  1. It begins training in the Tien style. The Tien style is a useful long term goal, but right now we aren't going to see many benefits from it - we don't get any effective benefit to Multiform until we reach Master, which is explicitly years away. As a Super Saiyan, we are extremely unlikely to be in a fight we might conceivably lose against the scouts, and the main invasion force is still 2 years away.
  2. It studies Jaffur's form with Mato. Studying Jaffur's form with Mato is nice. It's bonding time with Mato, and we get closer to figuring out Jaffur's style. We'll still almost certainly be some time away from it though (and to be honest, I was hoping to give Mato a headstart on our little "competition" so it could be his special thing, but I suspect that's a matter of personal opinion.)


Plan Deathbybunnies' strengths are:
  1. Whilst Recruiting Sensei we ask him (as a more experienced Seer) to Mind Project to Jaffur. This guarantees we contact Jaffur this turn, as we agreed we would with our conspiracy council, without any risk of failure. This is really important - we agreed to do this after a year of learning from Sensei, which means that this is the turn to choose this. Delaying here will lead to some very pointed questions from our fellow conspirators. EDIT: Bear in mind that with the invasion going on, there may be disruptions! We might need the planned "calming down" year to cover for them! DOUBLE EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings, without this explicit write-in we do not ask Sensei to Project to Jaffur.
  2. We explicitly train Multiform after Flight, so that it receives the training bonus from reaching Exceptional Ki Talents. Without this, the odds of successfully upgrading Multiform are much lower.
  3. We begin researching Perfect Multiform. @PoptartProdigy has explicitly confirmed that researching this will unlock it as an Elite version of Multiform. As far as I can see, this is the single biggest combat upgrade in the game short of a transformation that increases our Power Level - with it, we will literally be able to fight every single other Super Saiyan alive, including Jaffur, at the same time. It even guarantees our ability to use Golden Oozaru in a fight, by fighting the enemy with one or more bodies and transforming with the rest. This turn, it also synergises with Training Multiform, to help it along to Exceptional.
  4. We take Command Training. This is important to take this turn, as it will bring us to the trainable cap of "Talented" - we want to get this early so that any XP we gain for Command in the future (such as against the invasion force or the scouts) is above this cap, rather than wasted below it.
  5. We spend an action actually taking part in the Scout hunt, rather than just sending others out to do it. Given our talents with Ki Sensing, not doing this might lead to some ugly questions we won't have a answer for beyond "I have other things to do."
  6. We suggest a plan to Dad to, if the opportunity arises, take a Scout prisoner so we can gain information regarding the invasion. This plan will be used only at Dad's discretion and if a good opportunity comes up, so we won't be risking the escape of a scout.
  7. We include Dad in our training with Maya. Family bonding!
I'm pretty sure this is comprehensive, but if I've missed anything do tell me, and I'll add it!

EDIT: I'm colour coding the list for whole-action differences (orange) and subvote/wording differences (green), because otherwise I'm worried people might think I'm inflating the difference between the two plans. I'm not, mine just has more/better (in my opinion) subvotes. I would note that those subvotes are still very important. (If Sucal wants to use them he's more than welcome to do so - I believe I asked him to, but he hasn't responded.)

EDIT: Forgot Sucal's plan doesn't have us actually taking part in the Scout hunt.

EDIT: Made it clear that without the write-in, we don't ask Sensei to contact Jaffur.
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Deathbybunnies said:
I meant with regards to the deadlock - I honestly wasn't sure what we were going to do.

I mean, I guess I would have been a bit less enthusiastic if it had been a vote for the other plan, but that really wasn't what I meant.
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I suppose my reading came from how thoroughly and enthusiastically and colorfully (pun intended) you were putting your points about how much better your plan was. My apologies for the mis-read on your meaning.
 
Can't remember if it's been mentioned, but would Jaffur trust Sensei? He doesn't know Sensei, or that we are a Seer (and his apprentice). Although it's not like he has much other choice.
As far as I can tell, the only people he trusts are the Senzu's (and possibly Kakara).
 
Aranfan said:
We aren't trying to destroy the day man. The people voting for Sucal aren't the bad guys.
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... but he already clarified he meant that in an innocent 'no deadlock, yay' way, which I am sure you would've accepted if a clearly neutral party had said, see below.

Deathbybunnies said:
I meant with regards to the deadlock - I honestly wasn't sure what we were going to do.

I mean, I guess I would have been a bit less enthusiastic if it had been a vote for the other plan, but that really wasn't what I meant.
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Guys, we honestly need Tien style more then perfect multiform, especially since it will require more work to master
 
Sucal said:
Guys, we honestly need Tien style more then perfect multiform, especially since it will require more work to master
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I don't see a style as being more important than a 300% (for 3 extra bodies) increase in our strength, especially considering the other benefits (We can be much more aggressive with our Shin Kihokos, we can always apply a Team Fighting bonus, we can always guarantee an Oozaru transformation for that maximum Power Level, etc.) Besides, it's pulling double duty as a partial Multiform Training, to make sure we reach Exceptional.

EDIT: My understanding is that a style gives boosts to involved techniques. I don't think Multiform has any rolls that require boosts (except maybe in combat? But we don't use Multiform in combat) and it will take some time before Shin Kihoko and Kihoko reach a high enough level to displace our existing techniques. That leaves a boost to Solar Fare (which is nice, but not Earth-shattering) and the Four Witches Technique, which I believe we have no comparable skills for it to displace. There are no other involved techniques.
 
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