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Dragon Ball: After the End

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ElleonXan said:
Looking at the pictures again, maybe a boost to intimidation? Because nothing says intimidation like having a supersaiyan look down on you with zero mercy.
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Looking at it, she has the same look Goku did when he first ascended. That was also when he first realized that there are some enemies too dangerous to allow to live, and they must be battled with intent to kill (even if he did, quickly, find a way to let Frieza live).

So maybe a lesser bonus to our first fight where we seriously consider the need to kill, and a 10% boost to our post-battle saves vs hypocrisy?
 
Hey @PoptartProdigy , how do the Hand-to-Hand skills work, exactly? I was looking at them and realised that whilst Crowd Fighting and Duelling are pretty much mutually exclusive, Team Fighting can sort of go with either?

And if we fight with multiple Multiform bodies (Perfect or not) does that count as Team Fighting?
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
Hey @PoptartProdigy , how do the Hand-to-Hand skills work, exactly? I was looking at them and realised that whilst Crowd Fighting and Duelling are pretty much mutually exclusive, Team Fighting can sort of go with either?

And if we fight with multiple Multiform bodies (Perfect or not) does that count as Team Fighting?
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Dueling is actually mutually exclusive with both of the others; it's very explicitly 1 v. 1 fights. Crowd Fighting is when there are 2 or more enemies, Team Fighting when there are 2 or more people on your side. All skills applicable to a given exchange are checked against.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Dueling is actually mutually exclusive with both of the others; it's very explicitly 1 v. 1 fights. Crowd Fighting is when there are 2 or more enemies, Team Fighting when there are 2 or more people on your side. All skills applicable to a given exchange are checked against.
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The skill description just says we're great at it for beating up Jaffur, but that makes sense. And the multiple-bodies-of-the-same-person? It feels more like Team Fighting than Duelling to me, but I could be wrong.
 
[] training with Maya
-[]"Can you keep a secret. I don't want them to know I can do this.". Train Multiform combat with Maya.

Just to squeeze more benifts out of that action.

Edit: Does anyone else find it odd that right after Multiform was made not a combat skill we started finding combat uses for it?
 
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fictionfan said:
[] training with Maya
-[]"Can you keep a secret. I don't want them to know I can do this.". Train Multiform combat with Maya.

Just to squeeze more benifts out of that action.
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Incompatible with training her with Dad.

EDIT TO MATCH YOUR EDIT:
fictionfan said:
Edit: Does anyone else find it odd that right after Multiform was made not a combat skill we started finding combat uses for it?
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We always planned to go Oozaru + Super Saiyan due to the different Power Level pools. Even with a combat use, we aren't performing the skill any differently in combat than out of it - with Instant Transmission, the other edge case, you at least have to train how to react to an opponent, where to position yourself relative to them, etc. etc.

It is a little ironic though.
 
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KaintukeeBob said:
That was also when he first realized that there are some enemies too dangerous to allow to live, and they must be battled with intent to kill (even if he did, quickly, find a way to let Frieza live).
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That isn't true at all. He'd killed plenty of villains before he ever fought Frieza. As for Frieza himself, the Kaioken x20 Kamehameha and Spirit Bomb were meant to kill him, not incapacitate him. Him turning Super Saiyan was just him needing the power of the form and feeling intense rage at the death of his best friend.
 
Fun fact, in the run of the original manga, there are only two times where Goku is blindingly pissed, to the point where he says "I won't forgive you" which is a japanism for utter hatred at someone who has crossed the line.

One is Freeza and going super saiyan. Any bets what the first one was?
 
Aranfan said:
Fun fact, in the run of the original manga, there are only two times where Goku is blindingly pissed, to the point where he says "I won't forgive you" which is a japanism for utter hatred at someone who has crossed the line.

One is Freeza and going super saiyan. Any bets what the first one was?
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Always thought it was a shame how badly that sentiment tends to translate into English. When all of the cultural context is provided it's incredibly strong. But when translated to English without context it sounds more laughable, since it necessarily implies that forgiveness was on the table in the first place. That doesn't tend to be an assumption that the U.S., at least, buys into nearly as strongly as Japan. Not sure about other English-speaking nations; would hesitate to presume.

The vote will close tomorrow. Please figure out which of the current plans you enjoy. Somebody please run me a tally; I'm off to bed.
 
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 350 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.9
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies MK2
[X] Raise Grades (3 actions)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya
--[X] With Dad
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action)
[X] Command Training (1 action)
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED)
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action)
[X] Contacting Jaffur (1 action)
[X] Ki (1 action, may be taken multiple times)
-[X] Flight
-[X] Multiform (After Flight, so as to benefit from Ki Talents levelling up)
[X] Research Project (1 action)
-[X] Perfect Multiform
--[X] Attempt to use Sight to See Cell perform the move
[X] Organise the better ki sensors of the two clans into patrols, searching for the enemy scouts - now that they aren't shielded by their ships' armour, hopefully any slipups will be detectable. (2 actions)
-[X] Develop a plan that involves minimal loss of life, for the sake of gaining information (and your personal ethics). You (and Dad) can use Instant Transmission and/or Solar Flare to move in and incapacitate the scouts, while the rest of the group makes sure no one gets away or gets off a message.
--[X] This probably isn't Plan A, especially before you have an idea of how easily the enemy can sense you or send back info. But it's worth having a plan at hand in case the opportunity presents itself. (And boy, do you hope it does.)
---[X]Organise some trained seers as a response to the alien invasion. Initially attempt to scry the past on the ship to gain more information on the aliens and use that information to track them down though both Sight and other plans.
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 Action)
-[X] Since he's now part of the conspiracy and a much better Seer than us, he should Mind Project into Jaffur!

No. of Votes: 8
Plan: ◈Deathbybunnies MK2
Deathbybunnies
ElleonXan
fictionfan
KaintukeeBob
Langevin
MagikarpLvl58
Quest
Terrabrand
[x] Plan Sucal MK6
No. of Votes: 6
Plan: ◈Sucal MK6
adaer
Carrnage
Karnax626
KnightDisciple
pianoman
Sucal
[x]Plan Sucal MK5
[X]Raise Grades (3)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya,
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action):
[X] Train Tien Style x 2 (With mum if she knows it)
[X] Train Talent (Flight) (1 Action) With Mum
[X] Study Jaffur's Form (1 action): l.
-[X] With Mato.
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED):
-[X] Train Mind Projection
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 action):
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action):
[X] Organise the better ki sensors of the two clans into patrols, searching for the enemy scouts - now that they aren't shielded by their ships' armour, hopefully any slipups will be detectable. (2 actions)
No. of Votes: 4
Plan: ◈Sucal MK5
Aranfan
ChildishChimera
Lupercal
The Fourth Monado
[X] Plan Compromise
[X]Raise Grades (3)
[X] Improve Masque Affinity (1 action)
-[X] Train Maya
--[X] With Dad
[X] Feeling Weird (1 action):
[X] Train With Sensei (1 action, LOCKED):
-[X] Train Mind Projection
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action):
[X] Organise the better ki sensors of the two clans into patrols, searching for the enemy scouts - now that they aren't shielded by their ships' armour, hopefully any slipups will be detectable. (2 actions)
-[X] Try and get the Seers scrying systematically across the planet. And looking into the past, to get hints.
-[X] Finally, see if anyone has trained in using their sense of smell. Perhaps they could track them down by scent? They're not from Garenhuld, so they could smell different.
-[X] Try not just to sense ki, but the absence of Ki. We know that they have material that blocks ki sense. However if it blocks ki sense we should be able to sense the blockages in the same way that we can detect a perfectly black airship in the sky because it block the stars.
[X] Train Talent (Flight) (1 Action)
[X] Train Tien Style (1 Action)
[X] Recruit Sensei Carrick (1 Action)
[X] Ki (1 Action)
-[X] Multiform (After Flight, so as to benefit from Ki Talents levelling up)
[X] A Scion's Observations (1 action)
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Compromise
Gore17
[X] Whatever other plan focuses on schoolwork enough to get us straight A's again.
No. of Votes: 1
rkyeun
Total No. of Voters: 20

EDIT: Looks like Plan Sucal's still halfway through switching between plans. Whilst I'd like to imagine it'll stay this way, I suspect MK6 will be the winner by tomorrow, unless we get any new voters to shake things up.
 
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Andres110 said:
Presume.
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I think there will be quite enough of my nation doing that over the next four years already. :p
Andres110 said:
It sounds laughable in other English-speaking nations as well.
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Deathbybunnies said:
Yeah, "This is unforgivable!" is closer, but it's not the same.
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Thanks for clarifying! I figured it probably translate just as poorly, but am of course living in the U.S.A.'s Midwest and not another English-speaking country, and the foul-up is mostly cultural.
 
I took my list of differences between the plans and updated it:

So! Plan Sucal's strengths are thus:
  1. It begins training in the Tien style. The Tien style is a useful long term goal, but right now we aren't going to see many benefits from it - we don't get any effective benefit to Multiform until we reach Master, which is explicitly years away. As a Super Saiyan, we are extremely unlikely to be in a fight we might conceivably lose against the scouts, and the main invasion force is still 2 years away.
  2. It studies Jaffur's form with Mato. Studying Jaffur's form with Mato is nice. It's bonding time with Mato, and we get closer to figuring out Jaffur's style. We'll still almost certainly be some time away from it though (and to be honest, I was hoping to give Mato a headstart on our little "competition" so it could be his special thing, but I suspect that's a matter of personal opinion.)


Plan Deathbybunnies' strengths are:
  1. Whilst Recruiting Sensei we ask him (as a more experienced Seer) to Mind Project to Jaffur. This guarantees we contact Jaffur this turn, as we agreed we would with our conspiracy council, without any risk of failure. This is really important - we agreed to do this after a year of learning from Sensei, which means that this is the turn to choose this. Delaying here will lead to some very pointed questions from our fellow conspirators. EDIT: Bear in mind that with the invasion going on, there may be disruptions! We might need the planned "calming down" year to cover for them! DOUBLE EDIT: To avoid misunderstandings, without this explicit write-in we do not ask Sensei to Project to Jaffur.
  2. We explicitly train Multiform after Flight, so that it receives the training bonus from reaching Exceptional Ki Talents. Without this, the odds of successfully upgrading Multiform are much lower.
  3. We begin researching Perfect Multiform. @PoptartProdigy has explicitly confirmed that researching this will unlock it as an Elite version of Multiform. As far as I can see, this is the single biggest combat upgrade in the game short of a transformation that increases our Power Level - with it, we will literally be able to fight every single other Super Saiyan alive, including Jaffur, at the same time. It even guarantees our ability to use Golden Oozaru in a fight, by fighting the enemy with one or more bodies and transforming with the rest. This turn, it also synergises with Training Multiform, to help it along to Exceptional.
  4. We take Command Training. This is important to take this turn, as it will bring us to the trainable cap of "Talented" - we want to get this early so that any XP we gain for Command in the future (such as against the invasion force or the scouts) is above this cap, rather than wasted below it.
  5. We spend an action actually taking part in the Scout hunt, rather than just sending others out to do it. Given our talents with Ki Sensing, not doing this might lead to some ugly questions we won't have a answer for beyond "I have other things to do."
  6. We suggest a plan to Dad to, if the opportunity arises, take a Scout prisoner so we can gain information regarding the invasion. This plan will be used only at Dad's discretion and if a good opportunity comes up, so we won't be risking the escape of a scout.
  7. We include Dad in our training with Maya. Family bonding!
I'm pretty sure this is comprehensive, but if I've missed anything do tell me, and I'll add it!

EDIT: I'm colour coding the list for whole-action differences (orange) and subvote/wording differences (green), because otherwise I'm worried people might think I'm inflating the difference between the two plans. I'm not, mine just has more/better (in my opinion) subvotes. I would note that those subvotes are still very important. (If Sucal wants to use them he's more than welcome to do so - I believe I asked him to, but he hasn't responded.)

EDIT: Forgot Sucal's plan doesn't have us actually taking part in the Scout hunt.

EDIT: Made it clear that without the write-in, we don't ask Sensei to contact Jaffur.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
Whilst Recruiting Sensei we ask him (as a more experienced Seer) to Mind Project to Jaffur. This guarantees we contact Jaffur this turn, as we agreed we would with our conspiracy council, without any risk of failure. This is really important - we agreed to do this after a year of learning from Sensei, which means that this is the turn to choose this. Delaying here will lead to some very pointed questions from our fellow conspirators. EDIT: Bear in mind that with the invasion going on, there may be disruptions! We might need the planned "calming down" year to cover for them!
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Didn't poptart say this will happen automatically if his recruitment is successful?
 
[X] Plan Deathbybunnies MK2

Alright, the melding of Recruit Sensei and Contact Jaffur pushed me over the edge.

@Deathbybunnies You may want to update the original plan post to reflect the changes, since NetTally still has the original version.
 
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