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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Deathbybunnies said:
Sure, but It'll be as a contingency that won't trigger unless it's explicitly brought up.
EDIT:
-[] If at any point Dad brings up the idea of "marrying her in", point out how shy she is and that it would probably be better for us to bring her in as a close friend.
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That is not really what I meant. I think @Quest put it better:
Quest said:
Also the point that her power makes marrying her in difficult. We need to tie her to us, and no one else.
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Because to marry her in they would wait many years and they wouldn't forcé but see if she falls for someone. The argument that she is shy and thus marrying her in doesn't work doesn't work as an argument because it implies shy people would have problems getting married.

What I actually meant was for us to argue that it would be better to tie her to us because of her potential and that it is better for her to be introduced early this way instead of waiting years for her to be of a suitable age. That argument must be from a political and practical point of view, pointing it that it would be better this way because she is shy is too reliant in emotion. The point of that segment would be to show that our friendship is not clouding our judgement in this by showing we did consider all angles.
 
Quest said:
Also the point that her power makes marrying her in difficult. We need to tie her to us, and no one else.
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Bakkasama said:
That is not really what I meant. I think @Quest put it better:

Because to marry her in they would wait many years and they wouldn't forcé but see if she falls for someone. The argument that she is shy and thus marrying her in doesn't work doesn't work as an argument because it implies shy people would have problems getting married.

What I actually meant was for us to argue that it would be better to tie her to us because of her potential and that it is better for her to be introduced early this way instead of waiting years for her to be of a suitable age. That argument must be from a political and practical point of view, pointing it that it would be better this way because she is shy is too reliant in emotion. The point of that segment would be to show that our friendship is not clouding our judgement in this by showing we did consider all angles.
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So you feel we should make a point that as a powerful fighter, we want her loyal not just to the Saiyan race as a whole, but to us personally as Scion/Lady? That makes sense, and I fully support it, but unless it's worded right it could come across as pretty cold. I've edited it to this:
-[X] If at any point Dad brings up the idea of "marrying her in", point out that as a potential heavyweight fighter we'd prefer that she be more closely tied to us than a random Saiyan husband.
Does that work for wording?
 
Andres110 said:
Just finished watching the first episode of DBS.
@PoptartProdigy, how can you continue disliking Mr. Satan!? He's such a good man!
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Not a spoiler anymore, mate, no need for the box. And I am perfectly capable of liking the man while being annoyed at the character's execution. ;)
Gore17 said:
This raises an interesting question for me. What happens if the Scion is unable to reproduce for some reason, most likely due to damage to the necessary parts? Are they replaced?
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As pointed out elsewhere, excellent healing technology and techniques mean that that has never come up. Scion's who are infertile in the first place...don't exist.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
As pointed out elsewhere, excellent healing technology and techniques mean that that has never come up. Scion's who are infertile in the first place...don't exist.
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Well, that's an oversight. :p

Also, they should probably start thinking about it. Jaron, as a human, won't have Saiyan children unless he has them with a Saiyan woman. And that just introduces even bigger problems, as they're treating him as a human with regards to the Masquerade.

Which is honestly a big bit of double-think being engaged with the official reason Dandeer is still Regent: if Vegeta is now human and subject to the Masquerade, how can he be the Vegetan Lord? If he's not counted as human, why is the Masquerade being applied to him?
 
I so completely want to make the 'I'm pregnant' part of a vote...but I stand by my previous statements regarding Oddball. (reluctantly)
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Not a spoiler anymore, mate, no need for the box. And I am perfectly capable of liking the man while being annoyed at the character's execution. ;)

As pointed out elsewhere, excellent healing technology and techniques mean that that has never come up. Scion's who are infertile in the first place...don't exist.
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You know, this is mostly a fluff question BUT.....

Is Mai the ancestor of the Vegetians via marrying Trunks?
And mostly as a follow up....is there a clan with the name of "Briefs"?
 
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mithril-blade said:
You know, this is mostly a fluff question BUT.....

Is Mai the ancestor of the Vegetians via marrying Trunks? And mostly as a follow up....is there a clan with the name of "Briefs"?
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I think that should still be spoilered. I think general etiquette is to spoil anything that hasn't been dubbed yet.
Speaking of which, it's still unclear if Main timeline Trunks will end up with main timeline Mai. While future Trunks and future Mai are presumably fine in the other future timeline.


holy shit if the enemy arrived in that time line as well then Future Trunks officially has the worst fucking life.
 
anailater said:
I think that should still be spoilered. I think general etiquette is to spoil anything that hasn't been dubbed yet.
Speaking of which, it's still unclear if Main timeline Trunks will end up with main timeline Mai. While future Trunks and future Mai are presumably fine in the other future timeline.


holy shit if the enemy arrived in that time line as well then Future Trunks officially has the worst fucking life.
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Aight.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
So you feel we should make a point that as a powerful fighter, we want her loyal not just to the Saiyan race as a whole, but to us personally as Scion/Lady? That makes sense, and I fully support it, but unless it's worded right it could come across as pretty cold. I've edited it to this:
-[X] If at any point Dad brings up the idea of "marrying her in", point out that as a potential heavyweight fighter we'd prefer that she be more closely tied to us than a random Saiyan husband.
Does that work for wording?
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Rather than if he brings up marriage, it would be if he asks why we didn't want to wait/follow protocol. The issue is not Maya marrying but that we are trying to introduce it now instead of when she is older.
 
Bakkasama said:
That... is a good point. The last modification wording works (the one earlier in this page).

What do we say when he asks why we trained her or even mentioned to her that training was possible?
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3 reasons come to mind: there was no way she was going to accept not doing something with our "superpowers", we wanted to supervise her, and that not nurturing such natural talent would be a waste.

Aranfan said:
I asked this, and House Briefs and House Son are technically defunct.
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Don't they have pills for that now?
 
mithril-blade said:
You know, this is mostly a fluff question BUT.....

Is Mai the ancestor of the Vegetians via marrying Trunks?
And mostly as a follow up....is there a clan with the name of "Briefs"?
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No such House.

As for ancestry, I'm going to avoid giving an answer until Super does.
anailater said:
I think that should still be spoilered. I think general etiquette is to spoil anything that hasn't been dubbed yet
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My official policy, in fact.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
-[X] If at any point Dad brings up the idea of "marrying her in", point out that as a potential heavyweight fighter we'd prefer that she be more closely tied to us than a random Saiyan husband.

Thoughts?
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The other parts of the plan are acceptable. I disagree with them, but for a plan that involves telling Dad about Maya's powers instead of Maya herself, it's acceptable. This part I don't like at all. It talks about Maya as a strategic military asset, which is both too callous (or some other, similar word) and too non-pacifistic for Kakara. I would much prefer it if you removed this.

Deathbybunnies said:
I think that this conversation is sufficiently high-stakes that ceding the initiative and chance to control the conversation is a mistake.
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We are neither ceding the initiative nor giving Maya full control. We'll be with there talking with her, clarifying points as they need to be clarified and generally telling the story alongside with her. Having Maya there will give greater context and weight to what we say, and will dampen negative reactions and thoughts from Dad because having Maya actually there is a different experience to just getting told what happened.
 
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Andres110 said:
The other parts of the plan are acceptable. I disagree with them, but for a plan that involves telling Dad about Maya's powers instead of Maya herself, it's acceptable. This part I don't like at all. It talks about Maya as a strategic military asset, which is both too callous and too non-pacifistic for Kakara. I would much prefer it if you removed this.
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Callous or not, it's true. It doesn't contradict a pacifistic nature though? We're allowed to have other interests and opinions than "fighting is wrong", and it's not relevant here. We're also allowed to have selfish motivations, especially when we have benevolent ones too.

...That said, if you can come up with less cold wording for the point, I'll gladly change it.

Andres110 said:
We are neither ceding the initiative nor giving Maya full control. We'll be with there talking with her, clarifying points as they need to be clarified and generally telling the story alongside with her. Having Maya there will give greater context and weight to what we say, and will dampen negative reactions and thoughts from Dad because having Maya actually there is a different experience to just getting told what happened.
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This is a conversation where we can't afford to have anything go wrong - anything other than total control is unacceptable. We'll be introducing Maya to him immediately afterwards anyway.

Also, upon further reflection, we actually can't have this conversation in front of Maya to begin with at all - Dad has to agree to bring down the Masquerade for her, or we can't discuss half of the points we need to make in front of her in the first place.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
This is a conversation where we can't afford to have anything go wrong - anything other than total control is unacceptable.
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Total control is impossible. If Maya isn't there, Dad will have a greater amount of control of the conversation. With Maya there, what control we lose by having losing the power of words, we gain back (and moreso) via the power of emotions. It goes from "You should've done something differently" to "I guess you could've done something differently, but seeing who you were involved with..."

Deathbybunnies said:
Also, upon further reflection, we actually can't have this conversation in front of Maya to begin with at all - Dad has to agree to bring down the Masquerade for her, or we can't discuss half of the points we need to make in front of her in the first place.
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We can. The Masquerade isn't relevant to this conversation other than its maintenance, which is addressed in my plan by explaining how we didn't break it. All we have to say is that we didn't teach her Ki Sense. Dad will know then that the Masquerade is intact and Maya doesn't learn anything knew - she already knew we had secrets to hide related to Ki Sense.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
...That said, if you can come up with less cold wording for the point, I'll gladly change it.
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Not sure on specific phrasing, but something like "Since she's our friend, our student, and someone who's very wary around new people, we'd rather have her connected to Saiyan society through us. And as our friend and fellow outsider in Garenhulder culture, we trust that will be enough.

(Also, it'd be really interesting to find out about her powers, and as a smart, hardworking Ki prodigy we seem like an ideal person to do that. And it doesn't hurt that she could eventually be a powerful ally to have by our [Kakara's/House Goku's] side.)"

Something I just realized - the "thick-as-thieves friends who train together and become strong allies in the future" is what Berra wanted with Vegeta way back when, wasn't it. Given Maya's a nice kid not involved with any mass killings, I think that could help sway him towards this. (Not that we should explicitly play on it, but it might be in the back of his mind.)
 
This really doesn't seem like something we even need to justify. She's a danger to the masquerade, herself, the planet in a geologic sense, and is a future galactic-scale powerhouse on top of it. Building a good, trusting relationship with her is a good thing, even before accounting for the fact that she simply isn't old enough for marriage to be an option. Kakara temporarily respected her request because she could effectively guard against the downside and it provided a major upside for the Saiyans. The closest thing she has to something to apologize for is not telling her father anyway and then just pretending that she hadn't, but she's got some pretty heft ammunition to throw at him on that front, it's not exactly unjustifiable that she wouldn't want to betray her oath without clear and present cause, and she's already proven her ability to operate with independent initiative- not exactly an undesirable trait in a Scion.
 
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Andres110 said:
The other parts of the plan are acceptable. I disagree with them, but for a plan that involves telling Dad about Maya's powers instead of Maya herself, it's acceptable. This part I don't like at all. It talks about Maya as a strategic military asset, which is both too callous (or some other, similar word) and too non-pacifistic for Kakara. I would much prefer it if you removed this.
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Better she be a military or political asset than a military or political liability. Whether we like it or not, whether she wants it or not, her powers make her one. The more we can sell her as an asset, the more involved he will be in taking good care of her and the more he would protect her from others that see it that way. As callous as it sounds, it doesn't make it any less true.
Andres110 said:
Total control is impossible. If Maya isn't there, Dad will have a greater amount of control of the conversation. With Maya there, what control we lose by having losing the power of words, we gain back (and moreso) via the power of emotions. It goes from "You should've done something differently" to "I guess you could've done something differently, but seeing who you were involved with..."
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The discussion about what to do about her and how she affects the masquerade will happen without Maya being there regardless of whether we take her with us when we tell him about her or not. Dropping in with Maya and using the fact that she doesn't know about the masquerade so that he watches what he says is an agressive move. Yes, you gain some weight to the argument by putting a face to the issue but at the cost of surprising Berra and putting him on the back foot in the part of the conversation we don't need him to be like that. We want to control the conversation when we discuss what to do with her later and we want him to be calm when we introduce Maya to him. The fact that giving him prior warning would have been extremely easy makes it clear that we do this on purpose to surprise him which predisposes him against us when we talk to him once Maya leaves.
 
Bakkasama said:
Better she be a military or political asset than a military or political liability. Whether we like it or not, whether she wants it or not, her powers make her one. The more we can sell her as an asset, the more involved he will be in taking good care of her and the more he would protect her from others that see it that way. As callous as it sounds, it doesn't make it any less true.
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She doesn't have to be any of that stuff. She can just continue being Maya. Forcing her to be a political or military asset is wrong in a moral sense, thinking that she can only be either is wrong in a factual sense.
 
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Andres110 said:
She doesn't have to be any of that stuff. She can just continue being Maya. Forcing her to be a political or military asset is wrong in a moral sense, thinking that she can only be either is wrong in a factual sense.
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That's just simply untrue - as a powerful fighter, she is intrinsically both of those things. Whether or not she's on our side while being those things is half of our argument to Berra, and it's incredibly naive to the point of disingenuousness to suggest otherwise.
 
If Berra questions our actions, we should point out everything he did to help his friend(Dandeer) and the effects of that before throwing stones.
 
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