Dragon Ball: After the End

[Gore17]

Which Saiyan-raised humans are you speaking of?

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It's a hypothetical.

The Garenhuld attitude is not cultural. The culture has changed vastly over the centuries, but this has been a consistent and ubiquitous feature to a degree which far exceeds cultural bias. Even the GM has said that it indicates some significant selective pressure. Quite possibly related to the dead guardian and doubly landlocked ring of dead systems. The Garenhulders aren't curious because the curious ones didn't get the chance to have curious babies.

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Evidence against:

Garenhulders despise innovation in exactly the same way that Earthers despised creative sterility.

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The people there were culturally opposed to innovation or advances, making them perfectly stable for what the Exiles needed.

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Oddly enough, Saiyans as a society haven't touched this planet. Saiyans as individuals have...and they're the only reason things are as good as they are. When the Saiyans landed, the planet was at the tech equivalent of the High Middle Ages. The people of this planet have a strong cultural aversion to innovation.

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The humans of this world have as much martial arts knowledge as you would expect from the Earth of today; averse to innovation or not, a few millenia of military tradition dating back from when rocks were new adds up.

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In exchange for a near-total lack of cultural drive to innovation, they have a deep and varied tradition of oral and written legends that encompasses a vast tapestry of stories from the length and breadth of their history, as well as fictional tales from invented worlds aplenty.

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In that particular case, the kids were informed, and happily (for the Exiles) were young enough to be wholly assimilated into saiyan culture by the process of childhood education. They lived their lives as slightly unorthodox saiyans, identifying more with their adopted people than with the Garenhulders they technically were.

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An extreme cultural distaste is something that can and does happen.

Yes, missed it. It shows a nominal age. One she probably even believes herself. However, she is still described as small, timid, and little-sistery. Especially with underlying Saiyan biology, that could easily cover a gap of a couple of years.

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Okay, Occam's Razor time.

Hypothesis 1: Maya is a mutant human who simply did not develop the cultural aversion to innovations.
Assumptions: Three, two with strong evidence.

Hypothesis 2: Maya is unknowingly of Saiyan descent who is under a Masque, and as such she does not develop the aversion as it is entirely biological.
Assumptions: Four(Saiyan, Masque, Aversion Biological, Saiyans immune to said cultural influence), with evidence against one.

Hyothesis 3: Maya is unknowingly Jaffur's little sister, turned human to protect her from Vegeta, and as such she does not develop the aversion as it is entirely biological.
Assumptions: At least Five, with evidence against two.

Sorry, going to go with Hypothesis 1.

 

[Lailoken]

It's a hypothetical.

Evidence against:






An extreme cultural distaste is something that can and does happen.

Okay, Occam's Razor time.

Hypothesis 1: Maya is a mutant human who simply did not develop the cultural aversion to innovations.
Assumptions: Three, two with strong evidence.

Hypothesis 2: Maya is unknowingly of Saiyan descent who is under a Masque, and as such she does not develop the aversion as it is entirely biological.
Assumptions: Four(Saiyan, Masque, Aversion Biological, Saiyans immune to said cultural influence), with evidence against one.

Hyothesis 3: Maya is unknowingly Jaffur's little sister, turned human to protect her from Vegeta, and as such she does not develop the aversion as it is entirely biological.
Assumptions: At least Five, with evidence against two.

Sorry, going to go with Hypothesis 1.

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An extreme cultural distaste for innovation does not occur globally and persist without exception even as a population develops from a medieval society to a modern information age one. It's hardly surprising that a biological predisposition manifests in culture, but that doesn't mean the culture is the root cause. Adopted humans would provide evidence against it, but the description doesn't cover enough to judge the presence or absence of the attitude.

You missed the option where she just had her tail snipped, Saiyans resistance to a bias resulting from the population genetics of the non-Saiyan population is implied by a biological basis rather than an independent assumption, cultural origin is itself an assumption, and any useful formulation of Occam's razor doesn't equally weight every assumption anyway. The possibility of her being a simple human mutant is explicitly stated to be tens-of-billions-to-one against based on power level alone.

 

[Gore17]

Adopted humans would provide evidence against it, but the description doesn't cover enough to judge the presence or absence of the attitude.

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This one is easy to answer:
@PoptartProdigy, did the humans adopted into Saiyan society demonstrate the same aversion to innovation and curiosity?

You missed the option where she just had her tail snipped

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In which case, an examination of that area would show that, barring extensive surgery, which would also likely show.

Saiyans resistance to a bias resulting from the population genetics of the non-Saiyan population is implied by a biological basis rather than an independent assumption,

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Where?

The possibility of her being a simple human mutant is explicitly stated to be tens-of-billions-to-one against based on power level alone.

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When you have a population in the, what, millions, billions? The odds of one popping up eventually is pretty good.

 

[Andres]

@PoptartProdigy we need an update. It's only been a short time since the last one but already we've gone too long without one.

 

[Lailoken]

This one is easy to answer:
@PoptartProdigy, did the humans adopted into Saiyan society demonstrate the same aversion to innovation and curiosity?

In which case, an examination of that area would show that, barring extensive surgery, which would also likely show.

Where?

When you have a population in the, what, millions, billions? The odds of one popping up eventually is pretty good.

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Ordinary humans are born with tails and have them removed, and when has there been an opportunity to observe the area?

It's implied by the nature of the argument. If something is the product of the specific allele frequencies of a specific population it's hardly a surprise that a dramatically different population with dramatically different allele frequencies doesn't have the same feature.

The odds of it popping up specifically in one of Kakara's five human friends are astronomical. The question isn't, "does it happen anywhere, ever?", It's, "did it happen to Maya?". The odds of her being a Saiyan are considerably better than tens-of-billions-to-one against.

 

[Gore17]

Ordinary humans are born with tails and have them removed, and when has there been an opportunity to observe the area?

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The area where the tail should be/was would almost certainly show signs of surgical removal. And said "human tails" would be different from a Saiyan tail in multiple ways.

And of course there hasn't been an opportunity to look at that area, why did you even bring that up?

It's implied by the nature of the argument. If something is the product of the specific allele frequencies of a specific population it's hardly a surprise that a dramatically different population with dramatically different allele for frequencies doesn't have the same feature.

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You said it's implied. Show text that supports that claim.

The odds of it popping up specifically in one of Kakara's five human friends are astronomical. The question isn't, "does it happen anywhere, ever?", It's, "did it happen to Maya?". The odds of her being a Saiyan are considerably better than tens-of-billions-to-one against.

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It's also a story. The odds of it happening are "does the one creating the story want this to happen."

 

[Rmnimoc]

Hey Lailoken, mind snagging Voyager One? I mean, it's too far away for most things, but if your going to be reaching that far anyway...

Also, Gore, if you acknowledge that the odds are whatever the writer wants them to be then you realize you're opening yourself up to the obvious counterattack that since the odds of anything happening are the same, then the odds of Maya being the reincarnation of a child of Bra from DBM and a Brohtengeta/Gokule/Teincha/GoldenCell/Chinchilla Ultra-fusion named Brokulinchellilleta Junior from the future who can time travel and is actually secretly the Enemy who can be turned by the power of love are also just as high, and that's ground even [REDACTED] would fear to tread. Never pull that card out. For all our sakes.

So, since I called you both out you might wonder where I stand on Maya. The answer is of course her stomach. It's very hard to balance anywhere else.

Seriously though, Maya isn't Maya: mutant human or Maya: long lost saiyan, she's Maya: our scared (and possibly scarred) friend who could really use a hug. So let's put aside those differences and instead focus that brainpower on how we can best help her. With a mediocre room-temperature Hetap.

Hetap: Probably not the worst thing you've ever drank!
#SponsoredByHetap #DrankByGods #LiterallyYourOnlyChoice

 

[Andres]

#DrankByGods

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I don't think we've actually seen Mr. Satan drinking Hetap.

 

[ElleonXan]

I know this happened a couple of pages, but I find myself unable to not reply to this:

Why would someone who's hid there powers since they were a baby suddenly go into the spotlight and be a hero? Her being from clan senzu is impossible since they probably already did a background checks on all our friends since we're basically royalty. How would here having kids lead them to thinking we have anything to do with the Senzus, that would involve insane jumps in logic.

You guy are making her out to be a attention seeker when she's literally the opposite.

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First off, you're making too big a deal of something I said as an aside. (You know, in parentheses and not as important to the main point.) It doesn't matter if she becomes a hero or slips up and shows her power or what have you. The point was that if she displays a power much higher than a human, mightn't the Saiyans watching Jaron assume that perhaps she's a plant sent to get close to the sealed scion? What's more likely: this is a super-powerful human as has never been seen before? Or that this display of power came from a spy who got careless and/or couldn't take suppressing their power anymore and had to let it out?

And before you point out that they've done a background check, needn't I remind you that they would've already missed that her power level was much much higher than the norm... and if they've missed that, mightn't it make them wonder what else their background check missed?

Clan Senzu has already disappeared off the face of the earth and has a vested interest in Jaffur, so if I had to guess who sent a deep cover infiltrator to spy on Jaron, they would definitely be at the top of MY list.

That being said, and maybe I'm just projecting again due to my childhood as a shy and socially awkward child, but if you gave one such child a boatload of power and even an inkling that they could use that power to be better than they are now? I'd guess that they'd take it. Doubly so if they could hide behind a mask to literally become someone else... someone better. Heck, that's where the superhero fantasies of many modern day children come from.

And lastly, let's not forget that that's what Maya is: a child. Children are, in my experience, generally impetuous, emotional and somewhat illogical. Sometimes all the reasoning in the world can't figure out the mind of a child. Case in point, even though she is a shy child, she has already proven to be energized by and dare I say... jazzed... about her superpowers. To me, that seems to lead more to her enjoying, flexing and experimenting with her powers than it does her hiding them away for the rest of her life because: Careful and Shy.

 

[Bakkasama]

You missed the option where she just had her tail snipped, Saiyans resistance to a bias resulting from the population genetics of the non-Saiyan population is implied by a biological basis rather than an independent assumption, cultural origin is itself an assumption, and any useful formulation of Occam's razor doesn't equally weight every assumption anyway. The possibility of her being a simple human mutant is explicitly stated to be tens-of-billions-to-one against based on power level alone.

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Actually, you can probably discard that one. Humans and Saiyans feel different to ki senses unless the later is under a Masque. So she is either human or saiyan under masque or we would have noticed. If there is a biological predisposition to not question things then any resistance Maya could have to it couldn't come from her being Saiyan then since the Masque makes you human. Granted, you could argue that if such a thing is biological then it is a Garenhuld human thing and the masque is based on earthling humans that don't have it but given the success of Mr. Satan you can't argue that earthlings have a biological disposition to question things.

Following along your argument, you could say that she doesn't need a biological disposition to question things but just not one against it and that she has ki would naturally lead her to question what she knows about the world since she would wonder about herself but then that is the same argument that those who say there is not a natural inclination of the species but a cultural give as reasoning for Maya to be different in that regard.

The fact that there are a lot of cultures in the planet and thus is unlikely for them all to have fear of innovation can also be explained without bringing in genetics. We know there are humans in several planets and that they are similar enough to breed with each other. The same species developing with parallel evolution in several worlds is even less likely than having a one in ten billion human being born the same age and living in the same neighbourhood as Kakara. So we can presume that humans were born somewhere and then spread across the Galaxy and if so, then for planets like Earth or Garenhuld to be as they are, they must have lost their technology at some point. Furthermore, it was said in our visión:

"Look, I know! We'll have to travel far out. I get it. Everybody has to be strong enough to hold what they've got out there, especially with the chaos further west. But the rim is still mostly unexplored. Back when Earth was still keeping things quiet a lot of colonies got built out there. They've dropped off the map since the King's such a dickless puppet, but there are still places out there. Heck, even when those colonies were being built people were running across colonies that were even older! There are planets out there that have been settled for so long they've forgotten they were colonies once. If we go out far enough, nobody will ever chase us and we'll find something we can take over."

He spreads out a map of the galaxy on the table and starts tracing out a route along the right side of it. "I say we head through here. Keeps us clear of the major trouble spots and sends us right out into the black. I want you to scout it out for us while I get the troops marshaled up and moving. Take your team with, just in case."

Inquisitive birdsong. Something like a smile appears on the alien's face.

"Depends on what you find," says the human. "At the very least establish an enclave and wait for reinforcements. But if you're lucky enough to find a planet of human primitives, or some other low-power race?" A sadistic smile stretches the man's lips. "Take over and ride herd until we arrive. Use whatever measures are necessary."

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That such colonies do exist. Add to that the state the system is in:

And on the very fringe, in a system bordered by dead systems bordered by dead systems, they found Garenhuld.

Somehow, humans had found their way across the stars in the distant past. From the time of the battle against Freeza, the Z Fighters knew that other humans were out there. They didn't know how, and frankly didn't care, but there were humans there. And Garenhuld was a planet of such humans.

It was perfect. It was a quiet world, perfect for human life. It had no advanced technology to send signals into space -- the inhabitants still lived in castles and wore chainmail to fights. It had no powerful fighters to broadcast ki -- not even the likes of Muten Roshi. The people there were culturally opposed to innovation or advances, making them perfectly stable for what the Exiles needed.

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And you could make some hypothesis. Why did the original settlers choose such a planet? Was it because it was the only inhabitable one in the system? Did they want to hide? Was that part of space already like that when they got there? We don't know. But what we do know is that they came from space at some point and lost their technology. Perhaps it was on purpose. Maybe there was some great disaster that was caused by rapid advance of technology. Perhaps that was the reason the other systems are dead or that they looked for a place as isolated as posible. Maybe they were galactic hippies. But if the original settlers were against innovation for some reason and they passed those values to their children and they spread, it is possible for it to be a core tenet of all cultures that were developed afterwards. Heck, maybe they have so much mythology because they brought it from other planets and adapted it to their own! It is not that unlikely compared to them being born that way given the wackiness that happens in dragon ball.

But wait! What if they were so against it that they killed the curious ones in ancient times and thus they didn't have children? Well, in that case it would still be a result of the culture and the culture a result of it but then, not questioning things doesn't have to be genetic since there would be a strong cultural bias against that.

Anyway, before I get sidetracked: she can't be a lost saiyan with her tail snipped since it would be felt in her ki. It is extremely unlikely that she is a renegade saiyan under a masque since she is ten (or at least it is extremely likely since masqued saiyans look like human look at their age) and we have known her for two years which would require to have an insane amount of deception skill for someone that age and an equally high understanding of our thought process to bait us with those weird looks. She could be a masqued siyn child that got lost but to assume she is because she is curious when there is a logical explanation for it is ridiculous; granted it is more likely than her just being born a mutant where we live but to discard that other option just because of those reasons is not productive. Furthermore, we can probably discard Maya being a knowing member for any conspiracy because of said acting skill requirement.

So we are left with either mutant, lost saiyan child or, for the paranoid, unknowing pawn.

 

[Gore17]

Also, Gore, if you acknowledge that the odds are whatever the writer wants them to be then you realize you're opening yourself up to the obvious counterattack that since the odds of anything happening are the same, then the odds of Maya being the reincarnation of a child of Bra from DBM and a Brohtengeta/Gokule/Teincha/GoldenCell/Chinchilla Ultra-fusion named Brokulinchellilleta Junior from the future who can time travel and is actually secretly the Enemy who can be turned by the power of love are also just as high, and that's ground even [REDACTED] would fear to tread. Never pull that card out. For all our sakes.

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No, the odds of something happening are equal to the decision of the QM. That does not equal the odds of anything happening are the same. I trust Poptart not to do that, and presume the odds of that happening are low.

 

[ChildishChimera]

I know this happened a couple of pages, but I find myself unable to not reply to this:


First off, you're making too big a deal of something I said as an aside. (You know, in parentheses and not as important to the main point.) It doesn't matter if she becomes a hero or slips up and shows her power or what have you. The point was that if she displays a power much higher than a human, mightn't the Saiyans watching Jaron assume that perhaps she's a plant sent to get close to the sealed scion? What's more likely: this is a super-powerful human as has never been seen before? Or that this display of power came from a spy who got careless and/or couldn't take suppressing their power anymore and had to let it out?

And before you point out that they've done a background check, needn't I remind you that they would've already missed that her power level was much much higher than the norm... and if they've missed that, mightn't it make them wonder what else their background check missed?

Clan Senzu has already disappeared off the face of the earth and has a vested interest in Jaffur, so if I had to guess who sent a deep cover infiltrator to spy on Jaron, they would definitely be at the top of MY list.

That being said, and maybe I'm just projecting again due to my childhood as a shy and socially awkward child, but if you gave one such child a boatload of power and even an inkling that they could use that power to be better than they are now? I'd guess that they'd take it. Doubly so if they could hide behind a mask to literally become someone else... someone better. Heck, that's where the superhero fantasies of many modern day children come from.

And lastly, let's not forget that that's what Maya is: a child. Children are, in my experience, generally impetuous, emotional and somewhat illogical. Sometimes all the reasoning in the world can't figure out the mind of a child. Case in point, even though she is a shy child, she has already proven to be energized by and dare I say... jazzed... about her superpowers. To me, that seems to lead more to her enjoying, flexing and experimenting with her powers than it does her hiding them away for the rest of her life because: Careful and Shy.

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The problem with assuming she's a plant is that we knew her before Jaron dandeer sent him to our school. And even after that we brought Jaron into the misfits. Any why are you assuming that they've never been powerful human before? Gokus best friend was a powerful human, plus the people of earth were weak as shit compared to the wider galaxy so a human from a different planet actually being strong isn't that weird. Plus we've been on this planet for over 200 years a strong human can easily pop up in that time. And the problem with her being a spy is that again only Dandeer had that information and we knew the misfits for a year before they found Jaron. So if she came after Jaron you'd have a point and again you ignoring her actual character to imagine her a so kind of proto Taylor who's ready to explode instead of Maya who has shown herself quite and reserved.

 

[Lunaryon]

[X] Plan Water Under the Bridge
[X] Ask Maya what's wrong.
-[X] In fact, hug her again. Couldn't hurt.
--[X] We thought she was keeping it a secret because no-one else could do this, and told us because we can, so we figured she'd be happy to tell Dad since he can do it too.
---[X] But if she doesn't want to tell him, that's fine. It's completely up to her.
----[X] ...But now we've told her that Dad can do it too without him knowing, so she has to keep that a secret too! It's a secret to everyone!
-----[X] If everything is said, done, and resolved, tease her. "So...you think I'm pretty?"

 

[KaintukeeBob]

Lailoken, you have gone so far beyond tinfoil hats that I have to wonder if the tinfoil full plate was costly.

In any case, the most important question chain: does Maya have a nose? If not, does she have a third eye? If not, does she resemble a pokemon? Failing that, we have our Yamcha!

Oh god, let her be a Saiyan. No one deserves that. And I don't want Maya to end up all corpsarific.

 

[Gore17]

Lailoken, you have gone so far beyond tinfoil hats that I have to wonder if the tinfoil full plate was costly.

In any case, the most important question chain: does Maya have a nose? If not, does she have a third eye? If not, does she resemble a pokemon? Failing that, we have our Yamcha!

Oh god, let her be a Saiyan. No one deserves that. And I don't want Maya to end up all corpsarific.

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You forgot Master Roshi.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

@PoptartProdigy, did the humans adopted into Saiyan society demonstrate the same aversion to innovation and curiosity?

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Not particularly. At first, sure, absolutely, but given time they either started keeping quiet about it or stopped crediting it. Which, you don't know.

@PoptartProdigy we need an update. It's only been a short time since the last one but already we've gone too long without one.

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Alas, I have responsibilities that shall occupy me for -- checks route -- an hour? Two? One of those, before I can start. Regardless, it is incoming, just not now.

the odds of Maya being the reincarnation of a child of Bra from DBM and a Brohtengeta/Gokule/Teincha/GoldenCell/Chinchilla Ultra-fusion named Brokulinchellilleta Junior from the future who can time travel and is actually secretly the Enemy who can be turned by the power of love are also just as high

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*vomits*

No. They are not.

 

[Bakkasama]

Lailoken, you have gone so far beyond tinfoil hats that I have to wonder if the tinfoil full plate was costly.

In any case, the most important question chain: does Maya have a nose? If not, does she have a third eye? If not, does she resemble a pokemon? Failing that, we have our Yamcha!

Oh god, let her be a Saiyan. No one deserves that. And I don't want Maya to end up all corpsarific.

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Hey! Yamcha was strong. It is not his fault he was used for the worf effect. It is what he is there for, like Tien is for humans to look badass, Chiatsu to show the later is a good guy and Krilin to be the best friend you get angry when he is hit. Or Roshi for comedy.

 

[KaintukeeBob]

Hey! Yamcha was strong. It is not his fault he was used for the worf effect. It is what he is there for, like Tien is for humans to look badass, Chiatsu to show the later is a good guy and Krilin to be the best friend you get angry when he is hit. Or Roshi for comedy.

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I get that, I really do.

But dropping anvils on Yamcha is just fun. I'd say I've watched too much DBZ Abridged, if I honestly thought such a thing could happen.

Maybe she can be Videl. That wouldn't be terrible.

 

[Aranfan]

Or Roshi for comedy.

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Roshi's fights are always awesome tho. His fight with Tenshinhan is a serious contender for best fight in the series.

 

[KnightDisciple]

Roshi's fights are always awesome tho. His fight with Tenshinhan is a serious contender for best fight in the series.

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Roshi's an archtypical "skilled old master" sort. The "dirty old man" thing didn't start with him....
But yes, if he's serious in a fight, it's gonna be sweet, that's for sure.

 

[Rmnimoc]

*vomits*

No. They are not.

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I trust you Poptart, but I've been led astray before by far more well know writers until I had a moment of horror where I realized where that train of logic runs when the author had run that straight to the end of the line.

That being said, that was a very comforting reaction. You pass this test Poptart, but I'll be watching you. Mostly because even the posts you make outside the story posts have important, useful, funny, and otherwise cool info but still!

 

[Lailoken]

The area where the tail should be/was would almost certainly show signs of surgical removal. And said "human tails" would be different from a Saiyan tail in multiple ways.

And of course there hasn't been an opportunity to look at that area, why did you even bring that up?

You said it's implied. Show text that supports that claim.

It's also a story. The odds of it happening are "does the one creating the story want this to happen."

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I brought it up because you brought it up as if it were some kind of hard counter to the idea that she was simply a Saiyan with her tail removed. If it's something seen even in perfectly ordinary humans and we haven't even had the chance to observe it, how can it possibly rule out he being a Saiyan who had her tail snipped by the notorious conformist humans?

That's not what implied means. That's the exact opposite of what implied means. African ancestry South Africans have dark skin and European ancestry South Africans have light skin. You're arguing that dark skin should be assumed to be the product of culture because a biological explanation would require the additional assumption that that European ancestry South Africans somehow have an "immunity" to dark-skinninedness. No, they are simply a distinct population with different population genetics despite some interbreeding. The United States shows that that sort of distinctiveness can endure for hundreds of years despite marginal interbreeding. The Saiyans are an insular, true-breeding population in large part descended from an alien species and in even larger part Earth humans, including Bulma, and what contributions they have received from the locals have been pretty much unilaterally selected for compatibility with their prior state. There is no reason to suppose some additional factor immunizing them from the Garenhuld bias.

The one writing the story is a competent author who is perfectly capable of crafting a narrative which doesn't have tertiary plotlines dependent upon self-admittedly tens-of-billions-to-one against fiat.

Actually, you can probably discard that one. Humans and Saiyans feel different to ki senses unless the later is under a Masque. So she is either human or saiyan under masque or we would have noticed. If there is a biological predisposition to not question things then any resistance Maya could have to it couldn't come from her being Saiyan then since the Masque makes you human. Granted, you could argue that if such a thing is biological then it is a Garenhuld human thing and the masque is based on earthling humans that don't have it but given the success of Mr. Satan you can't argue that earthlings have a biological disposition to question things.

Following along your argument, you could say that she doesn't need a biological disposition to question things but just not one against it and that she has ki would naturally lead her to question what she knows about the world since she would wonder about herself but then that is the same argument that those who say there is not a natural inclination of the species but a cultural give as reasoning for Maya to be different in that regard.

The fact that there are a lot of cultures in the planet and thus is unlikely for them all to have fear of innovation can also be explained without bringing in genetics. We know there are humans in several planets and that they are similar enough to breed with each other. The same species developing with parallel evolution in several worlds is even less likely than having a one in ten billion human being born the same age and living in the same neighbourhood as Kakara. So we can presume that humans were born somewhere and then spread across the Galaxy and if so, then for planets like Earth or Garenhuld to be as they are, they must have lost their technology at some point. Furthermore, it was said in our visión:



That such colonies do exist. Add to that the state the system is in:

And you could make some hypothesis. Why did the original settlers choose such a planet? Was it because it was the only inhabitable one in the system? Did they want to hide? Was that part of space already like that when they got there? We don't know. But what we do know is that they came from space at some point and lost their technology. Perhaps it was on purpose. Maybe there was some great disaster that was caused by rapid advance of technology. Perhaps that was the reason the other systems are dead or that they looked for a place as isolated as posible. Maybe they were galactic hippies. But if the original settlers were against innovation for some reason and they passed those values to their children and they spread, it is possible for it to be a core tenet of all cultures that were developed afterwards. Heck, maybe they have so much mythology because they brought it from other planets and adapted it to their own! It is not that unlikely compared to them being born that way given the wackiness that happens in dragon ball.

But wait! What if they were so against it that they killed the curious ones in ancient times and thus they didn't have children? Well, in that case it would still be a result of the culture and the culture a result of it but then, not questioning things doesn't have to be genetic since there would be a strong cultural bias against that.

Anyway, before I get sidetracked: she can't be a lost saiyan with her tail snipped since it would be felt in her ki. It is extremely unlikely that she is a renegade saiyan under a masque since she is ten (or at least it is extremely likely since masqued saiyans look like human look at their age) and we have known her for two years which would require to have an insane amount of deception skill for someone that age and an equally high understanding of our thought process to bait us with those weird looks. She could be a masqued siyn child that got lost but to assume she is because she is curious when there is a logical explanation for it is ridiculous; granted it is more likely than her just being born a mutant where we live but to discard that other option just because of those reasons is not productive. Furthermore, we can probably discard Maya being a knowing member for any conspiracy because of said acting skill requirement.

So we are left with either mutant, lost saiyan child or, for the paranoid, unknowing pawn.

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After pages of being forced to repeat myself over and over, I would like to take a moment to thank you for making a new and useful point. She is probably in a masque instead of just having her tail snipped. Since this is even less likely to be product of an accident, though still far and away more likely than tens-of-billions-to-one against spontaneous human mutation, might you consider this indicative of her having been deliberately hidden near the Goku Lord's residence to protect her, likely by somebody who both cares about her and is proficient in weaving advanced custom masques?

We don't know enough to reach conclusions about the origin of the Garenhuld bias, but the sheer ubiquity and endurance despite growing from medieval to modern societies with zero external enforcement and major advantages to any who did defect to invention suggests something a lot deeper than culture, even deep, common culture. Given the lack of a guardian and the abundance of dead systems, the cause seems as if it might have been outright apocalyptic and fatal to everybody beyond a small community of extreme conservatives keeping their heads down. Another explanation would be the humans having been a slave or subordinate species with passive dull-mindedness bred into them before something removed the masters. That would also explain the general human diaspora across the galaxy without requiring the humans themselves to have had any significant technology at the time.

No, the odds of something happening are equal to the decision of the QM. That does not equal the odds of anything happening are the same. I trust Poptart not to do that, and presume the odds of that happening are low.

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I presume that the odds of any given thing happening are exactly what the author explicitly stated they are. In this case, tens-of-billions-to-one-against.

The problem with assuming she's a plant is that we knew her before Jaron dandeer sent him to our school. And even after that we brought Jaron into the misfits. Any why are you assuming that they've never been powerful human before? Gokus best friend was a powerful human, plus the people of earth were weak as shit compared to the wider galaxy so a human from a different planet actually being strong isn't that weird. Plus we've been on this planet for over 200 years a strong human can easily pop up in that time. And the problem with her being a spy is that again only Dandeer had that information and we knew the misfits for a year before they found Jaron. So if she came after Jaron you'd have a point and again you ignoring her actual character to imagine her a so kind of proto Taylor who's ready to explode instead of Maya who has shown herself quite and reserved.

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Again, she isn't, "strong", she is 370 times stronger than she should be. The Earthlings who achieved that did so much later after learning an extremely advanced and very dangerous paradigm which was only ever invented once at great effort, and which this kid appears to have casually re-invented before her tenth birthday without blowing herself up. She is on par with an adult veteran warrior of the old Saiyans.

 

[ElleonXan]

The problem with assuming she's a plant is that we knew her before Jaron dandeer sent him to our school. And even after that we brought Jaron into the misfits. Any why are you assuming that they've never been powerful human before? Gokus best friend was a powerful human, plus the people of earth were weak as shit compared to the wider galaxy so a human from a different planet actually being strong isn't that weird. Plus we've been on this planet for over 200 years a strong human can easily pop up in that time. And the problem with her being a spy is that again only Dandeer had that information and we knew the misfits for a year before they found Jaron. So if she came after Jaron you'd have a point and again you ignoring her actual character to imagine her a so kind of proto Taylor who's ready to explode instead of Maya who has shown herself quite and reserved.

Click to shrink...

Ah, I think I see the disconnect here. You seem to believe I'm arguing this point as if I myself believe this to be true. Let me go ahead and state unequivocally that I don't. You're right... we've known her for much longer than "Jaron". We know (barring unforeseeable story twists) that she is exactly who she says she is.

That being said, I do not believe that Dandeer or her agents/spies/Jaron's minders would have such privileged information as we the readers do. Dandeer's in a bad spot right now: struggling to rule when a good part of her subjects see her as an usurper of the rightful ruler, excommunicated from her religion, and possibly dealing with having made the choice to cast her son away from the majority of her life. So pardon me if I believe that she would be a little bit paranoid.

Now does it seem like it fits a little more? Mind reading what I said again through that lens? We know who Maya is and so forth, but Dandeer knows very little of her. As you said, background check and all that... but let me just say again: if a background check failed to find out that this girl is so powerful, what else might it have missed? It throws the validity of the whole background check into question. And of course, Clan Senzu is the likely suspect, as not only are they in open rebellion, (albeit a very quiet and nonviolent one) but the also have a very prominent sorcerer: if Dandeer could have constructed a superior masque, why couldn't they?

And as for the whole "as has never been seen before" thing? I stand by it. It's not just that she's a powerful human, as you rightly point out that there have been plenty of powerful humans. It's really that she is that powerful at ten years old. This isn't Killin, who trained into well into his adult years to reach this level of power. This isn't Gohan, Goten or Trunks, who had a saiyan parent the give them a leg up in the ki powers arms race. This isn't even Uub, who was reincarnated from the (at the time he was written, Battle of God's, Resurrection F, GT and Super not withstanding) most powerful being in the universe. This is, as far as we can tell, a normal ten year old girl who just happens to somehow be within the top percentage of powerful humans who ever lived... without really trying.

 

[Lailoken]

Ah, I think I see the disconnect here. You seem to believe I'm arguing this point as if I myself believe this to be true. Let me go ahead and state unequivocally that I don't. You're right... we've known her for much longer than "Jaron". We know (barring unforeseeable story twists) that she is exactly who she says she is.

That being said, I do not believe that Dandeer or her agents/spies/Jaron's minders would have such privileged information as we the readers do. Dandeer's in a bad spot right now: struggling to rule when a good part of her subjects see her as an usurper of the rightful ruler, excommunicated from her religion, and possibly dealing with having made the choice to cast her son away from the majority of her life. So pardon me if I believe that she would be a little bit paranoid.

Now does it seem like it fits a little more? Mind reading what I said again through that lens? We know who Maya is and so forth, but Dandeer knows very little of her. As you said, background check and all that... but let me just say again: if a background check failed to find out that this girl is so powerful, what else might it have missed? It throws the validity of the whole background check into question. And of course, Clan Senzu is the likely suspect, as not only are they in open rebellion, (albeit a very quiet and nonviolent one) but the also have a very prominent sorcerer: if Dandeer could have constructed a superior masque, why couldn't they?

And as for the whole "as has never been seen before" thing? I stand by it. It's not just that she's a powerful human, as you rightly point out that there have been plenty of powerful humans. It's really that she is that powerful at ten years old. This isn't Killin, who trained into well into his adult years to reach this level of power. This isn't Gohan, Goten or Trunks, who had a saiyan parent the give them a leg up in the ki powers arms race. This isn't even Uub, who was reincarnated from the (at the time he was written, Battle of God's, Resurrection F, GT and Super not withstanding) most powerful being in the universe. This is, as far as we can tell, a normal ten year old girl who just happens to somehow be within the top percentage of powerful humans who ever lived... without really trying.

Click to shrink...

*top <0.00000001%. Literally. Word of god.

 

[KnightDisciple]

What would be the level of proof required to convince you that Maya is, in fact, just a Human, albeit something of a self-trained Mutant? Instead of, at minimum, a Masqued Saiyan and/or Saiyan Hybrid Child/Descendant, if not somehow the secretly-not-actually-miscarried baby sister of Jaffur (who would be 3 or more years younger than us but whose "witness protection" [for lack of a better term] identity is given as being of identical age to us)? I'm genuinely curious when this matter would be considered "settled" one way or another by you.