Dragon Ball: After the End

Koraan · Apr 21, 2020

KnightDisciple said:
-*Name Pending*
-Sight
--Look Abroad: Braigh
--Look Abroad: Vulkar

But we don't need to look at all three places. If we'll find two of the planets is wrong places, then third is right one, obviously.

Deathbybunnies said:
[The Namek invasion fleet - from where will it stage the invasion?]

Maybe we should see who will lead the invasion? I think our Sight will be better used in order to find out things that are more difficult to know by conventional means.

PoptartProdigy said:
First, where the invasion is coming through. This is almost certainly to the galactic west of north, but it's not out of the question that the Empire is planning on carve out a bit of the East for an unexpected flank. Second, we need to find out what's coming our way. How many champions, how strong they are, what kind of equipment they have. Third...which royal is in charge?"

Look. We can find out the answer to one of these three questions. If we guess with the planet right, and find out the answer to another question, then in a month we will get 2/3 goals.
Even if we make a mistake with the planet, then next month we will be able to get an answer to the second question with the Sight and check the second planet. Almost guaranteed it will be 3/3.

Deathbybunnies said:
I'm not convinced that more information about the situation on the ground would change that. What could she have cast that would be so important not to break that we'd be willing to not touch the rest of her magic for it?

Well, if there a fight with the invaders right now, we may want to wait until it ends. But I mostly agree otherwise.

Deathbybunnies · Apr 21, 2020

Koraan said:
Maybe we should see who will lead the invasion? I think our Sight will be better used in order to find out things that are more difficult to know by conventional means.

We've got something coming for that already, when Poptart figures out how to word it - last turn's action was supposed to be this, not pointing at the Garenhuld invasion fleet. Apparently we rolled badly, so I'm not sure how helpful it'll be, but we should wait and see what we get from that first.

Koraan said:
Well, if there a fight with the invaders right now, we may want to wait until it ends. But I mostly agree otherwise.

We aren't casting the wish any time soon, so if we saw they were fighting the invaders right now it wouldn't matter. The fight won't take long enough to be relevant.

Koraan · Apr 21, 2020

Deathbybunnies said:
We aren't casting the wish any time soon

I mean we should check situation before use wish. I agree we don't need to check it right now.

Aranfan · Apr 21, 2020

Deathbybunnies said:
I agree that breaking all of Dandeer's magic is probably a good wish, but at the same time I'm not convinced that more information about the situation on the ground would change that. What could she have cast that would be so important not to break that we'd be willing to not touch the rest of her magic for it? Remember that adding complexity, especially information complexity, to wishes is liable to cause them to fail, and targeting Dandeer's spellwork specifically already looks complex to me.

Nice new avatar, by the way!

At a guess? She was probably at some point involved in the iterative improvements of the Hall's wardings. Those are pretty important.

Deathbybunnies · Apr 21, 2020

Aranfan said:
At a guess? He was probably at some point involved in the iterative improvements of the Hall's wardings. Those are pretty important.

Yeah, possibly! I don't think the Sight would tell us that though unless we very specifically focused on it, and maybe not even then.

I'm hoping that since our wish is coming from a favour, Porunga will be amenable to discussing the wording - both to get us more of what we actually want, and to optimise it to cost him less.

PoptartProdigy · Apr 21, 2020

Koraan said:
Thanks for answer, @PoptartProdigy, @Dazarel.
Still, Dazarel somehow hid himself from the Seers - they were able to see his appearance, but not his path. Is there any way to learn this?

It's not so much that his path was unclear; he saw that you had predicted his approach, was actually offended that [INSERT PEJORATIVE HERE] were presuming to predict his actions, and threw away his plan out of spite. He had intended to orbit for a week, scanning, and then come down over the thickest concentration of resistance. Instead he came, immediately, directly for you.

Pittauro said:
mh... a few questions

1) Does "normal" electricity work especially well/efficiently against ki user? or is ki protecting against it as well as normal attacks?

2)Would it be possible to combine our psychic lightning with the Thunder Shock Surprise if we tried to learn it through vision? (I expect a "you don't know").

2bis) Do we have an idea of how hard it is to convert ki to electricity?

3)can we sense ki from inside Bassoon? Would training ki sense to elite be a more efficient action than other types of training we are more limited it, like genkidama or crowd fighting (we're limited to kakara's multiform and Bassoon)?

4)What does Kakara think about the possibility of modifying her ki signature so that it doesn't feel like a saiyan's through ki control?

It tends just not to interact with ki.
Your expectation was correct.
1. Nope.
Yes. Not especially; you're trying to break the plot barrier; not doing incremental work.
Research action.

OfSpaceandTime said:
Purely because I cannot shake the feeling:

Has Kakara ever been told, or caught wind of stories about Kale or Broly?

If no, this will be my only question on the matter.

Yes to both.

QTesseract · Apr 21, 2020

Koraan said:
Is there any way to learn this?

Not from a Jedi

.

Deathbybunnies said:
Yeah, possibly! I don't think the Sight would tell us that though unless we very specifically focused on it, and maybe not even then.

I'm hoping that since our wish is coming from a favour, Porunga will be amenable to discussing the wording - both to get us more of what we actually want, and to optimise it to cost him less.

I think that's entirely possible, but I would still want to work out some ideas for the wording ahead of time rather than expecting to do it all there.

Bakkasama · Apr 21, 2020

Deathbybunnies said:
I agree that breaking all of Dandeer's magic is probably a good wish, but at the same time I'm not convinced that more information about the situation on the ground would change that. What could she have cast that would be so important not to break that we'd be willing to not touch the rest of her magic for it? Remember that adding complexity, especially information complexity, to wishes is liable to cause them to fail, and targeting Dandeer's spellwork specifically already looks complex to me.

Nice new avatar, by the way!

Well, my main worry is whether she did any changes to Jaffur's sealing that might have disastrous effects for Jaron if simply banished since we dropped the bomb on her about him being real and suicidal. There are, of course, small matters like whether she made a new masque for any saiyan child who was born in the years since the sealing but those should comparatively less troublesome even if it breaks in the middle of a human city.

Koraan · Apr 21, 2020

PoptartProdigy said:
It's not so much that his path was unclear;

I mean, Seers couldn't see where he is, when they tried. They were able to see his arrival, yes. But when they tried to see "where is this guy right now?" they saw only a black screen with "~~fuck off~~ access denied" on it.
IIRC.
I want to know how he did that, and if he can teach us.

googlyeyesultra · Apr 21, 2020

I've gone ahead and made a change to my plan to add in trying to learn about the Thunder Shock Surprise per discord discussion. In Super Roshi uses it to stun an opponent, with the caveat that he couldn't do anything else while maintaining the stun and needed Tien to actually blast his target, but with multiform we can do both parts so it should fit us well. Plus, we have some kind of psychicy lightning thing that might synergize with it.

Koraan · Apr 21, 2020

googlyeyesultra said:
[Master Roshi using the Thunder Shock Surprise]

Maybe we can see how he learns/trains this or teaches someone? I think we likely will learn more from this.

Bakkasama · Apr 21, 2020

googlyeyesultra said:
I've gone ahead and made a change to my plan to add in trying to learn about the Thunder Shock Surprise per discord discussion. In Super Roshi uses it to stun an opponent, with the caveat that he couldn't do anything else while maintaining the stun and needed Tien to actually blast his target, but with multiform we can do both parts so it should fit us well. Plus, we have some kind of psychicy lightning thing that might synergize with it.

While it does seem to be very useful for restraining strong opponents, I am not sure we could get it to a very high level in that for the invasion. That, and I am not entirely confortable with it since the impression that I got when I first saw it in dragon ball was that of a torture technique first deviced by Roshi just in case he ever had to kill his star disciple which was... a bit questionable.

Deathbybunnies · Apr 21, 2020

QTesseract said:
I think that's entirely possible, but I would still want to work out some ideas for the wording ahead of time rather than expecting to do it all there.

Oh, certainly.

Bakkasama said:
Well, my main worry is whether she did any changes to Jaffur's sealing that might have disastrous effects for Jaron if simply banished since we dropped the bomb on her about him being real and suicidal. There are, of course, small matters like whether she made a new masque for any saiyan child who was born in the years since the sealing but those should comparatively less troublesome even if it breaks in the middle of a human city.

We do need to include a provision for not killing Jaffur, for sure.

I've been reminded that we already know Ki Stealth is a dead end - I misremembered it as us only having verified existing methods were a dead end. I'll be replacing it with something else, probably another Research action. I'd like to train All Is One, but I don't believe doing so on a small spaceship far from planets will accomplish much.

Electricity control has been mentioned - the Thunder Shock Surprise is one possibility, but imbuing our ki attacks or even just hand-to-hand attacks with a paralsis effect would be pretty big.

Koraan · Apr 21, 2020

Deathbybunnies said:
We do need to include a provision for not killing Jaffur, for sure.

And Jaron. And our family. And friends. And...

Pretty much everyone but Dandeer herself, basically.

Pittauro · Apr 21, 2020

Koraan said:
Maybe we can see how he learns/trains this or teaches someone? I think we likely will learn more from this.

I don't think he ever taught him to anyone else. It's his secret move, even more than the kamehameha or the mafuba/evil containment wave (which is something I'd want to research sometime in the future, though AFTER the thunder shock surprise)

Bakkasama said:
While it does seem to be very useful for restraining strong opponents, I am not sure we could get it to a very high level in that for the invasion. That, and I am not entirely confortable with it since the impression that I got when I first saw it in dragon ball was that of a torture technique first deviced by Roshi just in case he ever had to kill his star disciple which was... a bit questionable.

more like his secret ace that he used in what was implied to be the final match of a previous tournament to not allow his pupil to win, same as with Goku.

I don't think he creted it to KILL his pupil. That was simply the only fight he ever truly needed to use it (before Goku and db super)

Deathbybunnies said:
Electricity control has been mentioned - the Thunder Shock Surprise is one possibility, but imbuing our ki attacks or even just hand-to-hand attacks with a paralsis effect would be pretty big.

mostly by me

I always loved that move.

If you really don't care for electric attack right now we could train tk I suppose. distractions like "who's touching my back while I'm fighting", simulated weaker hits, maybe deviating attacks at a distance. Though we'd need to train it a lot, and tk is an inefficient technique in terms of brute force and precision anyway.

...do you all think tk tickling could work?

buli-buli · Apr 21, 2020

Koraan said:
And Jaron. And our family. And friends. And...
Pretty much everyone but Dandeer herself, basically.

Dandeer herself too. Even ignoring Kakara's stance on killing, all of her victims deserve a trial.

Deathbybunnies · Apr 21, 2020

Plan Deathbybunnies:
-[] Sight: 3 (2+1)
--[] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
--[] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [Perfect Cell's Perfect Multiform]
--[] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [The Namek invasion fleet - from where will it stage the invasion?]
-[] Training: (3+2)
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Kikoho]
--[] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Perfect Multiform]
--[] Style Training (2 AP) [Tien Style]
--[] Research Project (1 AP) [Ki Signature Alteration/Disguise]
-[] Social: 3 (2+1)
-[ ] Strengthen Host Bond (1 AP)
--[] General Training (2 AP)
-[] The Outside World 1 (0+1)
--[] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[] A Cause: 1 (1+0)
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]

Having had some time to consider, our best bet of being able to fight whilst roaming the galaxy is probably altering our ki signature such that The Enemy doesn't recognise it as being Saiyan. As such, I've shifted the defunct Ki Stealth research to Ki Signature Alteration. This would let us hide from Enemy detection whilst in the wider galaxy, though it won't be effective in hiding Garenhuld from the wider galaxy at higher PLs. If we could pair it with a disguise - perhaps a magic illusion? - we might be able to fight openly.

Koraan · Apr 21, 2020

I forgot, can we learn both "Machine Sense" and "All Is One"?

Pittauro said:
I don't think he ever taught him to anyone else.

Probably. But we can look how he train it.

buli-buli said:
Dandeer herself too. Even ignoring Kakara's stance on killing, all of her victims deserve a trial.

I dunno... If all her spell ends, she will die. Because every saiyan will try to kill her.

So, if we wish to finish only the spells the ends of which does not lead to her death, we may find that we have wasted wish.

Deathbybunnies · Apr 21, 2020

Koraan said:
I forgot, can we learn both "Machine Sense" and "All Is One"?

Not sure. It might be that upon learning one as our Elite Talent we can learn the other as our Legendary Talent, but we might need something else to unlock that.

Actually, that's a question worth asking. @PoptartProdigy if we have two Elite Talents unlocked and unlearned, does learning one lock us out of the other? If not, does learning the second work for unlocking Legendary? If we reach Legendary, are we unable to unlock new Talents? (I would assume if we still can learn new things it won't push us up to some new tier beyond Legendary.)

Apologies if this has been asked before, it's been a while.

PoptartProdigy · Apr 21, 2020

Deathbybunnies said:
Not sure. It might be that upon learning one as our Elite Talent we can learn the other as our Legendary Talent, but we might need something else to unlock that.

Actually, that's a question worth asking. @PoptartProdigy if we have two Elite Talents unlocked and unlearned, does learning one lock us out of the other? If not, does learning the second work for unlocking Legendary? If we reach Legendary, are we unable to unlock new Talents? (I would assume if we still can learn new things it won't push us up to some new tier beyond Legendary.)

Apologies if this has been asked before, it's been a while.

You can learn one Elite+ talent per level above Exceptional. There are some specifically Legendary talents.

Deathbybunnies · Apr 21, 2020

PoptartProdigy said:
You can learn one Elite+ talent per level above Exceptional. There are some specifically Legendary talents.

Dang, that's a shame.

Cariyaga · Apr 21, 2020

Is it possible to share the insights that led to a talent if you haven't yet learned it?

Also, there are two things necessary to get me to vote for a plan: talking to Dazarel, and Sight training.

PoptartProdigy · Apr 21, 2020

Cariyaga said:
Is it possible to share the insights that led to a talent if you haven't yet learned it?

In theory. In practice, it would be much easier if you had actual instructions.

Cariyaga · Apr 21, 2020

PoptartProdigy said:
In theory. In practice, it would be much easier if you had actual instructions.

So... basically, we'd need someone Exceptional going into Elite that doesn't have any such insights of their own, and it'd still take a few AP on our part to do so, correct?

And then once they'd learned the talent, we'd be able to share our respective Elite talents with each other?

googlyeyesultra · Apr 21, 2020

Koraan said:
Maybe we can see how he learns/trains this or teaches someone? I think we likely will learn more from this.

I'm not sure if he ever has taught anyone this. And I'm a little worried that training might get us a vision of him trying it out before he actually has it nailed down, so we'd get like a bad template to try and copy. I sort of just left it open for Poptart/the sight to choose whatever scene of Roshi using it would work best.

In general though I agree with trying to "see" examples of someone teaching something rather than just doing it, but we may just need to make do.

Dragon Ball: After the End

Team Plasma Grunt

Lawful Evil

Biribiri

There is always a greater fool

There is always a greater fool

Lawful Evil

Handsome Gentleperson

Lawful Evil

Handsome Gentleperson