You're not technically wrong, but it's not really right in any useful sense either
You can't meaningfully proxy one onto the other, or make predictions about one using the other, if you want to have any real degree of accuracy.
1) I notice that your use of 'proxy' is confusing me, and it seems like it'd probably be a useful term to know.
2) The utility of absent evidence is proportional to the probability of having discovered it if it existed. (Which reminds me of 'the maximum amount of information you can get from one datapoint is directly proportional to the database you can compare it to', which seems like a selfevident natural law to me, but I should probably have someone else check over.)
...I remember that on our first failed attempt to learn the spirit bomb that there was a bunch of 'consulting with experts' going on. I suppose it would be too much to hope that one of the experts that helped in the initial research of the spirit bomb manages to deal with Dandeer via Spirit Saiyan while were gone?
...yes? Yes it would be too much to hope that not only would Random Saiyan Number Thirty Seven would successfully independently reinvent the Spirit Bomb without the outside assistance we had but also pass the extremely difficult check to use Spirit Saiyan successfully and moreover that this would happen without Dandeer pulling any kind of counter.
Like. They already knew it could be done. This isn't like Golden Oozaru where people were unaware it even could happen at all.
1) I notice that your use of 'proxy' is confusing me, and it seems like it'd probably be a useful term to know.
2) The utility of absent evidence is proportional to the probability of having discovered it if it existed. (Which reminds me of 'the maximum amount of information you can get from one datapoint is directly proportional to the database you can compare it to', which seems like a selfevident natural law to me, but I should probably have someone else check over.)
A proxy value is a value that can stand in for something else. For instance, before this I could use "Is Berra Goku your leader" as a proxy value for "Are you from clan goku;" that would be a decent, albeit imperfect, proxy value. I couldn't use "do you like to fight" as a proxy value for "Are you from clan goku" because while there is correlation to be found between the two among saiyans you can't just swap one for another and get a useful result.
In terms of the conversation itself, you can't use "There's no evidence for x" in place of "X doesn't exist," even if the former is a neccesary part of the latter, because it's not good enough at descriminating out wordlines; ie, p(x doesn't exist)/P(No evidence of x) isn't reliably close to 1 even if that may sometimes be the case.
I'm too tired to really parse the second statement, but if it says what I think it does; yes. If you would expect to have evidence were something true, you not having that evidence is a sign that the thing isn't true, to an extent that increases with the probability of obtaining that evidence given the priors. To take a rediculous example, the fact that we have no evidence that Dandeer is the reincarnation of Son Goku is, in fact, pretty good evidence she is not said reincarnation (alongside all our other, better evidence that says the same thing).
To take a rediculous example, the fact that we have no evidence that Dandeer is the reincarnation of Son Goku is, in fact, pretty good evidence she is not said reincarnation (alongside all our other, better evidence that says the same thing).
*snerk*
That said, our other evidence isn't that good. Dandeer is ludicrously skilled at magic, to the point that "Dandeer is a traveler from the future" is one of the few known ways she could have obtained that skill. And if Goku can reincarnate after attaining godhood, it's not out of the question that his reincarnation is a sorceress and a time-traveler. Especially if we account for alternate versions of Goku.
It's still ludicrously unlikely, but if we had any specific indication that she was, in fact, the reincarnation of Son Goku, the possibility would immediately become credible.
[/truth couched in silliness]
I suspect it hasn't, because by my count he's had 4 fights against hostile foes; 5 if you count the "fight" that was house Talt, and that was almost certainly before he came up with the strategy. Of these, 1 was against dandeer (hostages were irrelevant, he just lost), 1 was with Dazazel (didn't come up) and the other two were here. Everyone else he's faced has been so far beneath him as to make the label of "foe" completely innacurate, and what they do or do not due with a hostage is similarly pointless because they could literally be holding a ki blast to their hostages head and have them surrounded by armed guards and still not stop him from doing whatever he wants. The fact that he's usually so much stronger than his opponents that the holes never show up doesn't make them not exist; abscence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Okay, except - followup point - that means that we only know him to apply this strategy in situations where it's effective. Were he to encounter a situation where said strategy would be more actively stupid to use, for all we know he might change it. However, given the environment he has been operating in, it's reasonable for him to give the impression of an absolute precommitment regardless of his actual stance.
The problem with pithy phrases is that they have a number of possible interpretations. In this case, my point was "if something looks stupid but worked out, maybe you should reevaluate your conclusion that it was stupid." If you already know it's actually stupid, then your version becomes correct.
I don't feel like quoting the times you said the opposite. It would likely get me banned again. I have not read anything, but the threadmarks for some time now.
Edit: only read this because the word count made me think it was an update.
No, PoptartProdigy very clearly described us as using Dandeer as a weapon/shield against Yammar's attacks.
-until you lean to the right, his fist phasing through your afterimage. You swing Dandeer up and follow her arc with a kick. He avoids both before darting back in.
It's harder than your fight against your father. Yammar hasn't had his speed slashed. He's not taking as much effort to avoid Dandeer. He leans away from killing her, but you hear bones crunch more than once as he blocks your swings. You have to readjust. And Yammar has the benefit of experience, and tempered fury.
It's easier. You flow from stance to stance more smoothly than you have at any point during this fight, and this burst of strength, born of desperation, keeps you a step ahead of him at all times. And unlike your father, you have qualms at all fighting Yammar. You pity him; that doesn't mean you're going to go easy on him.
With Dandeer as your advantage, it is an even fight. Not a dance, because Yammar fights with a brutality that puts the lie to any metaphors about combat being beautiful. It's a savage chase as you trade distance and time in the hopes of an opening.
Until you miss a step.
You dart back left when you should have hopped back, and Yammar closes in. You swing to ward him off, and he ducks underneath Dandeer's unconscious body to deliver a brutal punch to your side. You lash out with a knee; he catches it and bashes it in at the side with a little crunch. You let out a little scream of pain, and lash out with Dandeer once more.
I mean. Seriously. You could choose to critique the exact details of how Dandeer's unconscious body was employed as a human shield/weapon in that scene, assuming there was some perfect Zen art of using an unconscious person as a human shield and Kakara fell short of it. But she totally DID use Dandeer in that general way against Yammar, and it wasn't enough. Yammar just won that fight, fair and square, using the advantage of having, oh, 30-40 years more hand to hand combat experience and training than we do.
When your plan, which already includes several layers of "I hopes" and "maybes" and "we can't prove X isn't trues," adds yet another layer of "I hope maybe, we can't prove X isn't true until we try..."
Horatio, I have to ask, is there ANY point at which you abandon a plan as being unlikely to succeed? Because almost anyone I know would have already been persuaded "you know, the many other people telling me this is a pointless waste of time are probably right."
That's the issue. Not that he decided Kakara would protect Dandeer, which is ballsy and honestly just reckless but not completely crazy, but that his policy in general is that:
and that this extends up to and including disintigrating the person he's fighting to protect with wide angle attacks, in ways that won't harm his foes, to prevent them from using the hostage as a cover to do things that don't interfere with his goal. That, and the fact that he doesn't understand the problems with this kind of precommitment, is what brings him from "perhaps a bit too willing to take risks" to "idiot playing with decision theory he doesn't understand."
Poptart told us that he has a trait which basically says "don't let hostage-takers influence your decision-making process, e.g. by letting the fact that they have a hostage cause you to let them get away with kidnapping the hostage."
My understanding is that it's been alluded to that he lost family members other than his father in the Talt Rebellion, and we KNOW that his father's death alone caused him massive trauma that shaped the rest of his life for very much the worse. In describing Yammar, I'd go with 'traumatized madman' rather than 'idiot.'
In Kakara's defense, that has more to do with Yammar being an idiot (twice over!) as it does with Kakara being inadequately prepared for combat against him, plus it also relies on the consecutive failures to act sensibly by Apra and berra. This is only partly on her (although out of universe at least 1/2 of the blame does rest on us).
Yammar was an idiot, but Yammar had been pre-emptively (in effect) lobotomized for purposes of his ability to directly oppose Dandeer. We already know he confronted her on the night of the Sealing (not at all surprising), and he fell smack into a prepared magical ambush. And granted, at that time he was still greatly underestimating Dandeer, because he simply did not possess all the relevant facts about how dangerous she was. But past that point- well, he's lucky he still had enough free will left to oppose her at all.
Minor quibble, but the latter part relies on yammar a)being willing to hurt his own family and b) being willing to kill super saiyans and c) being willing to let allied super saiyans lie in a coma. I could see... maybe parts of the scenario happening, in a worst case dandeer dies scenario, but the specific badness I think outmatches even the worst realistic case scenarios.
c) He'd be letting allied super-saiyans lie in a coma because he would't know how to snap them out of it. From his perspective, he wouldn't know that Berra has been freed, only that he's lying there screaming as a result of something Dandelor did. Dandelor is part of the enemy conspiracy that murdered his daughter-in-law, who <censorship magic activate> he can't remember anything bad about. He is also a very skilled mage, from a powerful family of saiyan rebels. Yammar is VERY likely to rate Dandelor as "too dangerous to live," and it's going to take quite a while for him to get other mages present to do anything about the torture-effects of the spell. Berra may well be psychologically incapable of meaningful action for the foreseeable future.
b) Given the fractured state of Yammar's understanding of what just happened in this scenario, and that Yammar is, well, Yammar, I don't think "Yammar is willing to kill super-saiyans" is that much of a stretch. Not when his "they killed a member of my family" button is arguably pushed. It's definitely me making a deliberate choice for the dark plausible outcome, but I don't think it's at all implausible.
a) The only members of his own family he'd be directly hurting of his own will would be the one who just (in his mind) forced him to kill another member of his family, and the one who attacks him in a furious rage to the point where he has to be put in a coffin or unconscious on a hospital gurney (again) to STOP him trying to kill Yammar in turn. And bear in mind that I already list as the good ending outcome of my scenario "Jaffur somehow defeats his father and grandfather," which is the other likely alternative. I mean seriously, if Jaffur woke up and learned that Yammar or Vegeta had killed Kakara, on top of everything else they've done, I'm pretty darn sure Jaffur would either kill them or die trying.
Still the larger point comes down to lack of paranoia and over confidence as far as I can tell, on all fronts.
The first thing that should have been done once the conspiracy began would be to have Dandelor check all members and all future members for magic bugs or anything else the greatest magic user the exile has might be capable of (at least as far as was practical).
Had another quote box on tab without a closing bracket, and it was at the top of said post, giving it an inordinately long "useless data" box that included an entire qupte; definitely one of my weirder BB code failures to date. Thanks for the catch.
A proxy value is a value that can stand in for something else. For instance, before this I could use "Is Berra Goku your leader" as a proxy value for "Are you from clan goku;" that would be a decent, albeit imperfect, proxy value. I couldn't use "do you like to fight" as a proxy value for "Are you from clan goku" because while there is correlation to be found between the two among saiyans you can't just swap one for another and get a useful result.
In terms of the conversation itself, you can't use "There's no evidence for x" in place of "X doesn't exist," even if the former is a neccesary part of the latter, because it's not good enough at descriminating out wordlines; ie, p(x doesn't exist)/P(No evidence of x) isn't reliably close to 1 even if that may sometimes be the case.
I'm too tired to really parse the second statement, but if it says what I think it does; yes. If you would expect to have evidence were something true, you not having that evidence is a sign that the thing isn't true, to an extent that increases with the probability of obtaining that evidence given the priors. To take a rediculous example, the fact that we have no evidence that Dandeer is the reincarnation of Son Goku is, in fact, pretty good evidence she is not said reincarnation (alongside all our other, better evidence that says the same thing).
I notice that the discussion has been bouncing endlessly around the whole, "evidence of absence," thing. While technically true, it does — fittingly — make the discussion impossible to usefully or conclusively resolve. Let's try another tack. Q, perhaps you could instead explain for the thread why exactly Yammar's displayed use of game theory is flawed/misconceived/etc. It occurs that we seem to have skipped that step, and I feel like it would be a more stable foundation for the discussion.
When your plan, which already includes several layers of "I hopes" and "maybes" and "we can't prove X isn't trues," adds yet another layer of "I hope maybe, we can't prove X isn't true until we try..."
Horatio, I have to ask, is there ANY point at which you abandon a plan as being unlikely to succeed? Because almost anyone I know would have already been persuaded "you know, the many other people telling me this is a pointless waste of time are probably right."
My plan is accurately summarized by the following:
*If and when researching Ultra Super Saiyan hits the 'investigate now' threshold, use Sight to scan for a meeting between the Talts wherein they discuss the things they have tried while searching for a way to beat the royals.
*If no such meeting can be found, or it simply doesn't tell us about anything we haven't ourselves investigated, go back to investigating manually.
I don't think the opportunity cost of scanning outweighs the risk of finding nothing useful. (Remember, visions are a lot cheaper than they were.) Where does your assessment break from mine?
A Cause: The matter of the Sealing has defined your life since you were eight. The injustice and betrayal Jaffur suffered has weighed on your mind ever since, and the horror of Jaron's existence makes you feel sick. Although you have been defeated for the moment, your resolve is only stronger than ever. Experience heavy vote weighting in favor of options spiting or thwarting Dandeer Vegeta and must pass Willpower checks to act in line with her interests. Slight prejudice against sorcery and its practitioners gained; you perceive it in your ki senses as feeling, "wrong," and it's nearly impossible to separate that from people entirely, even if you don't let it get to you. Kakara may not remove the destruction of the Seal from her To-Do list, and will occasionally take actions towards that end undirected by the player base. +10 flat bonus to Willpower at all times, which spikes to +20 when acting against Lady Dandeer Vegeta or Jaffur's Seal.
I'm curious how this will change given the partial failure of the unsealing. I assume that the applicability criteria will change to include the other seals, and seems to be intensifying even further than what it was before.
See, Yammar is so good at close combat that if HE were the motherfucker Green Shirt was trying to beat with another motherfucker, he'd just duck under the other motherfucker and give Green Shirt a super-saiyan punch in the dick.
He seriously deserves to be our memetic hand-to-hand combat expert.
I notice that the discussion has been bouncing endlessly around the whole, "evidence of absence," thing. While technically true, it does — fittingly — make the discussion impossible to usefully or conclusively resolve. Let's try another tack. Q, perhaps you could instead explain for the thread why exactly Yammar's displayed use of game theory is flawed/misconceived/etc. It occurs that we seem to have skipped that step, and I feel like it would be a more stable foundation for the discussion.
Well, Yammar's overall game-theoretic approach to hostage situations might best be described as "be totally undeterred by hostages," yes?
This is actually very effective in game theory most of the time, for the same reason that the most effective way to win a game of automotive chicken is to chug a bottle of whiskey, scream "BANZAI!", put on a hachimaki only you get it wrong and it's obviously covering your eyes so you're blindfolded, then rip the steering wheel out of your car like the guy from the Mad Max remake.
You may be assured that your opponent WILL swerve to get out of your way after this combination of gambits. Because if the enemy knows that you will not and cannot alter your course of action as a result of their threat, they have no incentive to make the threat, and might as well just give up here and now.
Likewise, if your enemies know that hostages will not in any way deter you from your chosen course of action, save perhaps to increase the degree to which you personally prioritize their destruction, then they might as well not bother planning to take hostages and use them against you.
THAT part makes sense from a game theory standpoint. Rational actors who somehow know that you will not be deterred by a threat have no reason to make the threat in the first place- either they should refrain from bothering at all, or they should just up and carry out whatever attack they threatened to make, if it would somehow weaken you in a way useful to them.
...
Now, here's where that strategy doesn't work.
Firstly, consider a situation where the opponent is ignorant of your reputation. Ultimately, no reputation-based reasoning or strategy is valid or relevant against an opponent who hasn't heard the news about you. Being famously impossible to deter by taking hostages doesn't do you any good, if your opponent doesn't KNOW such a strategy won't work on you. You still wind up in a hostage crisis, which means the game-theoretic goal of deterring your enemies from even trying to take hostages against you fails.
Secondly, consider a situation where saving the hostage is in fact your primary objective. The only reason you are even fighting in the first place is to protect the hostage; subduing your opponent is only desirable because they are a threat to the hostage! In such a situation, killing the hostage to get yourself back OUT of that situation constitutes a disastrous defeat, even if it hypothetically serves the overall goal of maintaining a reputation for never ever being deterred by hostage-takers.
...
Now, so far as we are aware, the second situation applied to Yammar facing us while we had Dandeer as a hostage. If he could have pushed a button, teleported Dandeer into his hands, and somehow just made us go away, that would have fulfilled his objectives as far as we know. Dandeer herself may have had other objectives, but her orders to Yammar were, as far as I know, something like "guard me from Apra, Jaffur, and Kakara." Blowing up Dandeer would be, like, the opposite of that.
[I do love the idea that Dandeer later learns that Yammar would totally have killed her, while mind-controlled to protect her. I imagine that might make her feel a little more nervous at night when contemplating just what the limits of her magic can and cannot do to ensure her control over others]
...
Furthermore, the first situation applies in spades. Both OOC and (as far as I know) IC, we had NO IDEA that Yammar had this ironclad, invincible resolve to never be deterred by hostage-taking. Had we known, we might have done a number of things differently earlier in the battle. For instance, I would have voted to have Dandelor break the mind control spell on Yammar, rather than Berra, because I would have rated the Dandeer Flail as useless against Yammar, which in turn makes him the prime target for being taken out of the fight.
While it can reasonably be argued that it is our fault that we were so ignorant of such basic facts about one of our key allies' reputation and personality, the fact remains that we were thus ignorant.
...
So in the specific context in which Yammar found himself, his general game-theoretic strategy of "never be deterred by the presence of hostages" breaks down horribly. If his goal was to preserve Dandeer's life, while knowing that she was in the hands of a girl famously squeamish about actually killing her, then almost any conceivable strategy would have been better than killing her himself.
If he had interpreted his orders to give him some other goal that might actually be furthered by killing Dandeer, then all bets are off, of course. Not knowing the precise nature of the geas laid upon him, or what was going through his mind at the time, I'm honestly not sure I can rule that out, to be fair.
Secondly, consider a situation where saving the hostage is in fact your primary objective. The only reason you are even fighting in the first place is to protect the hostage; subduing your opponent is only desirable because they are a threat to the hostage! In such a situation, killing the hostage to get yourself back OUT of that situation constitutes a disastrous defeat, even if it hypothetically serves the overall goal of maintaining a reputation for never ever being deterred by hostage-takers.
At that point what it mostly comes down to is "am I willing to give up the long-run benefits of maintaining this reputation in exchange for the short-term accomplishment of a single objective," in my view. And I can definitely see reasonable arguments in favor of the former option (e.g. "if I care about protecting multiple people, losing my reputation for ignoring hostages puts all the ones who aren't the current hostage in enough danger to cumulatively outweigh the life of the one who is").
At that point what it mostly comes down to is "am I willing to give up the long-run benefits of maintaining this reputation in exchange for the short-term accomplishment of a single objective," in my view. And I can definitely see reasonable arguments in favor of the former option (e.g. "if I care about protecting multiple people, losing my reputation for ignoring hostages puts all the ones who aren't the current hostage in enough danger to cumulatively outweigh the life of the one who is").
In a fully generic situation yes, but Yammar was supposedly under mind-controlled coercion to prioritize Dandeer's safety.
It would be very hard for Poptart to reveal exactly what compulsions Yammar was under and what he was thinking without giving away a LOT about how Dandeer's mind control acts on its targets, so obviously this is something that can't really be confirmed or denied.
But it is, at least, reasonable to think that in that moment Yammar 'should have' considered protecting Dandeer to be his top priority, in which case deliberately killing her rather than allowing her to remain in the hands of an opponent who would almost certainly NOT kill her seems like a poor way to achieve that priority.
...
So yes, it comes down to long term versus short term benefits, from a game-theoretic perspective, and of course any attempt to do game theory calculations is massively disrupted when an outside force comes in and mind-controls you, thus forcibly altering your priorities against your will.
In a fully generic situation yes, but Yammar was supposedly under mind-controlled coercion to prioritize Dandeer's safety.
It would be very hard for Poptart to reveal exactly what compulsions Yammar was under and what he was thinking without giving away a LOT about how Dandeer's mind control acts on its targets, so obviously this is something that can't really be confirmed or denied.
But it is, at least, reasonable to think that in that moment Yammar 'should have' considered protecting Dandeer to be his top priority, in which case deliberately killing her rather than allowing her to remain in the hands of an opponent who would almost certainly NOT kill her seems like a poor way to achieve that priority.
...
So yes, it comes down to long term versus short term benefits, from a game-theoretic perspective, and of course any attempt to do game theory calculations is massively disrupted when an outside force comes in and mind-controls you, thus forcibly altering your priorities against your will.
Sure, but if we maybe don't just assume that everyone who does things that don't immediately make sense to us is clearly an incompetent moron, then we could draw the inference that (for example) maybe Dandeer's mind control is unable to make Yammar prioritize her safety highly enough above his other concerns to make her effective as a hostage. We certainly don't know that, but it is a data point we can potentially use regarding "what Dandeer's mind control can & can't do."
[X] Planet Pura. The middle-of-the-road option, but prone to cascade failures if you manage the risks poorly. Still, what else is Sight for, if not mitigating the odds of something going wrong?
Fine Line
After a moment's reflection, you decide to scry for Pura. That one seems like the best option, if you can manage the risks, and you're a seer; you're all about knowing the risks. You close your eyes and reach.
They open white.
* * *
Gone.
* * *
Bassoon walks along a crowded back street, keeping to the edges and avoiding shoving through the crowd.
"I really wish they would just let you fly," you grouse. "We'd get things done so much faster."
'It's understandable,' replies Bassoon, shrugging. 'Traffic control is a nightmare to coordinate when you let anybody fly, and Pura's not wealthy enough to maintain the kind of computer network that would make it practical. Just be patient, Kakara. We'll get done here shortly.'
You grumble, scrubbing at your arms. "I'm not used to this, Bassoon, I'm from Garenhuld. I'm a Scion. And we went public with ki before I had to run. If I wanted to fly, I got to fly. I didn't need to file flight plans." You shudder at the thought. "It feels wrong. If my father ruled that that was the new norm, I'm fairly sure our society would explode. Flying isn't a product to us, it's a bodily function. The idea that somebody could just ban it..." You shudder again, harder this time.
'I get it,' soothes Bassoon. 'It's the same way on Namek. But this is the wider galaxy, and most planets -- and I know this is weird to contemplate -- are vastly majority non-ki-users. They can't fly. So they don't really get it, and we're guests here. We need to play by their rules.'
"I understand that," you reply. "I wouldn't say it to any of them. But literally only you can hear me. And Dazarel, but he doesn't count."
'Well, fair.' Bassoon chuckles. He then brushes against somebody. He turns to offer an apology, and stiffens slightly. He turns back around and continues walking. 'Did you-?'
"I saw," you reply, the chilling feeling of focus filling you. "Three of them. One of them had a ki blaster."
'Locals,' murmurs Bassoon, grimacing. 'I was hoping to avoid this kind of trouble.' He looks around for a moment. 'I'm going to try to get off of the streets. Hopefully we can lose them, but if it comes to a fight...' He leaves the rest of that unsaid.
You nod, and he sets to. Bassoon weaves through the crowd, keeping ahead of your trio of pursuers. After a few moments, he abruptly turns right, stepping into an alleyway with another sharp turn within. As soon as he's clear of the crowd, he breaks into a run, rounds the corner-
-and stops dead at the sight of another four locals waiting for you. His sensitive ears pick up the sounds of your first pursuers following you in.
The man at the head of the quartet -- one of the orange-skinned locals of this world -- steps forward, all casual, looking over his shoulder to the woman in back. "Gera?"
She nods silently, eyes fixed on you.
The leader looks back to you, eyes glittering. "Hello there, mister namekian. I'm told you're new in town. Think of us as the welcoming committee." He gives Bassoon a cold smile. "You've got a mighty interesting passenger up in that head of yours."
Your blood runs cold, and Bassoon mentally spits something in his native language. 'They have a psychic. That woman in back, it must be. They know you're here.'
The local continues, "Y'know that there's a price on people like that. That's not even mentioning what happens to folks to let one slip by without dropping a line to the...big guy...so to speak." He tilts his head. "A lot of folks might call that unkind, you know. Trying to slip one of them by us like that." The other locals advance a step, producing ki blasters. "We're gonna need you to come with us, pal. It's self-preservation, you get? We don't really have a choice, here."
Bassoon tenses, getting ready to launch himself up into the sky.
* * *
Back.
* * *
You come to, shuddering violently. Dazarel swoops in for a landing in front of you, peering at you.
'Whoa,' remarks Bassoon. 'That didn't look like good news. So where's the place we're never going?'
You swallow. "It was a vision of Pura," you reply. "It looks like at least one of the gangs there has gotten itself put together. They had a psychic."
Bassoon says that word from your vision, and it sounds no happier in reality.
You nod. "She could tell that I was there, and who and what I was." You blink and then scowl up at the sky. "You didn't tell me the Enemy had a price out on saiyans!"
Dazarel flinches. 'There's a what?!'
Bassoon pauses for a moment. 'I didn't even think of it,' he replies, wincing. 'Sorry. It's just something that...is...for me.' He adjust his steering a bit. 'It's not actually the Enemy; he doesn't talk to people unless he's fighting them or threatening them to learn where Taro went. There's a bit of a cottage industry made up of people throughout the galaxy; they're the ones that post the bounties on saiyans' locations, and they keep track of the Enemy's location. If they get a tip, they pay for it and send it off to him.'
"They what?!" you demand, feeling your power level spike.
'I know, it's disgusting,' replies Bassoon, contempt in his tone. 'Some people will do anything for a payday. I should have remembered. I guess it just got lost in the shuffle. I didn't think it'd be an issue; after all, who'd be able to notice you, the way things are now?' He sighs. 'And so I forgot to mention it, and then other things happened, and I always forgot. I'm sorry.'
'I vote that we never go to Pura. Ever,' says Dazarel, sounding shaken.
'Well, not necessarily,' replies Bassoon. 'Now that I know one of the local gangs has a psychic, and that she'll happen across us, I can get some mental shields up before we land, avoid that particular hazard. That said, it's a really big mark against it, definitely. I don't suppose you got anything about the others, Kakara?'
"No," you sigh, standing and stretching. "And I'm out of juice. No more visions for today."
Bassoon grimaces. 'And the Fleet's going to have search parties combing the system for me, or else I'd stick around and let you recharge. Unfortunately, they'd find us within the hour. My ship's stealthy, but not that stealthy. No, we need to get out of here -- and if Tariq was right that he'll be coming after me, we can't afford to delay. We need to make our choice now. I'm leaning towards 42-G. It'll take some careful timing, and we could run into some rough characters, but there won't be a huge number of them, and we'll at least have the isolation to plan our next move. What do you think, Kakara? And you, I guess, Dazarel.'
'You thought of me?' snarks the dragon. 'I'm flattered. I vote Zebul. You are practiced at slipping these refugees' net, and that's when they have warships. They have no experience in a subtler hunt, and the close confines of their spaceports will be a better place for me to train the Ape Princess.'
You blink. "Wait, what? Train me?"
'I did not forget what your ancestor made me promise,' grumbles Dazarel. 'I'm of no use as a fighter. I will simply have to pass down knowledge instead.'
'Ignoring that part, given that I have no idea what you two are talking about, that's actually a better argument than I was expecting,' says Bassoon. 'That said, I'm still more comfortable with 42-G. Kakara? What do you think? Dazarel's argument rests partly on you. How do you feel about it?'
You lean against a tree, musing.
Seems there's a tie to be broken; thus, decision power is largely falling on you for this one. Where do you think you should head?
[ ] Planet Zebul. It has absolutely everything you need, if you can just dodge the soldiers. Dazarel has a point; Bassoon's used to doing just that, and the Refugees will be out of their element. And a part of you really wants to find out what the dragon has to teach you...
[ ] Planet 42-G. What with the strange characters and the need to time your exit right, this prospect is all about chance, but unlike the other options, it'll at least give you all some downtime, and let you plan your next step with less pressure.
[ ] Planet Pura. The middle-of-the-road option, but prone to cascade failures if you manage the risks poorly. Furthermore, you now know that here you're going to run into a psychic motivated to capture you to turn over to the Enemy. That said, Bassoon has a mind shielding ability; that should hopefully allow you to avoid this specific danger.
MANUAL MORATORIUM; APPROVAL VOTING.
It's never that easy.
Hope you enjoy this one, folks! See you around the thread.
[ ] Planet Pura. The middle-of-the-road option, but prone to cascade failures if you manage the risks poorly. Furthermore, you now know that here you're going to run into a psychic motivated to capture you to turn over to the Enemy. That said, Bassoon has a mind shielding ability; that should hopefully allow you to avoid this specific danger.
We know the threat and can prepare for it. A prepared sorceror is as good as it gets
[ ] Planet Pura. The middle-of-the-road option, but prone to cascade failures if you manage the risks poorly. Furthermore, you now know that here you're going to run into a psychic motivated to capture you to turn over to the Enemy. That said, Bassoon has a mind shielding ability; that should hopefully allow you to avoid this specific danger.
We know the threat and can prepare for it. A prepared sorceror is as good as it gets
[X] Planet Zebul. It has absolutely everything you need, if you can just dodge the soldiers. Dazarel has a point; Bassoon's used to doing just that, and the Refugees will be out of their element. And a part of you really wants to find out what the dragon has to teach you...
The angry space dragon with enough psionic power to nullify the strongest our planet had to offer, and enough skill with it that almost noone figured it out, wants to teach us how to not fuck up our brain when fucking around with it. Since he 's stuck with us for the long haul, I vote we learn just what it is that he considers important enough to teach.
Hey, have an Omake. I've had this idea for... quite a while now, but only just been reminded of it.
Talk Fast, Die Old
Yammar hasn't given you a moment's peace since you reached Dandeer. Not to shoot, not to run, not even to put fingers to your forehead. You just don't have enough limbs to wield your hostage and fight effectively. (You think of the Four Witches technique, and decide that trying to spontaneously reinvent it is a desperation move. You have one gambit left before you'll start trying those.)
So, between dodging a punch that turns into a blast aimed for your eye and blocking two kicks, you scream at him. "Stop this! I'm trying to save Dandeer!"
Yammar barely reacts to this declaration, still focused on overwhelming you with his frankly incredible skill. (Pinpoint kaiai there spinning you into his knee strike, remember to spend extra ki on retaliatory gutpunch so he can't just shoot the pinky with another weak-but-can-launch-from-anywhere beam, wide-angle blast through left shoulder to prevent a grapple attempt, then rocket away as fast as you can possibly go-)
"There's an alien! It's using a hacked fusion technique! If it wakes up before we can get her to a mage, her head explodes!"
"Give her to me, then." Yammar finally growls out. He's still close enough to disrupt you if you try to Transmit, but he's not actively attacking you.
You stop too, but don't relinquish Dandeer just yet. "We need a master sorcerer. Anything else triggers its wards and kills her. I've Seen it."
He opens his mouth, then bights off with a curse. "Do you trust him?" He's pointing at Dandelor.
That was not how you expected him to react. "Um. Yes. We've been working on this for over a year."
"Wake him up, then. Leave her with me; I can keep her from waking. Be fast." His tone is curt, and brooks no argument.
Well, that went better than expected. Do you hand her over?
[ ] Yes. You were losing solidly before, and this gives you a chance to change tactics.
-[ ] Write-in what. Yammar will react poorly to Dandelor trying to cast anything on him.
[ ] No. It's too risky to let her go, even if it would give you some breathing room.
-[ ] Write-in tactics.
Is that a good reason to specifically stick our head in the lion's mouth? I mean, we shouldn't actively be going out of our way to expose the evidence of a saiyan other than Taro still being alive. Especially not in a situation like this, where we are very, very definitely years away from having any kind of viable anti-Enemy plan.
We have to trust Bassoon, realistically (he might have been able to expel us from his mind or even entrap us if he didn't think we were being honest, especially given that we have Dazarel as a passenger). We'll probably have to trust the Namekians, who are as strong and independent a race as we're likely to find, and as likely as any to NOT sell us out to the Enemy.
That's actually a good point; a psychic might conceivably be able to detect him and casually squash him in his powerless state, whether Bassoon and us like it or not. And they'd probably think they were doing the galaxy a favor.
Hey, have an Omake. I've had this idea for... quite a while now, but only just been reminded of it.
Talk Fast, Die Old
Yammar hasn't given you a moment's peace since you reached Dandeer. Not to shoot, not to run, not even to put fingers to your forehead. You just don't have enough limbs to wield your hostage and fight effectively. (You think of the Four Witches technique, and decide that trying to spontaneously reinvent it is a desperation move. You have one gambit left before you'll start trying those.)
So, between dodging a punch that turns into a blast aimed for your eye and blocking two kicks, you scream at him. "Stop this! I'm trying to save Dandeer!"
Yammar barely reacts to this declaration, still focused on overwhelming you with his frankly incredible skill. (Pinpoint kaiai there spinning you into his knee strike, remember to spend extra ki on retaliatory gutpunch so he can't just shoot the pinky with another weak-but-can-launch-from-anywhere beam, wide-angle blast through left shoulder to prevent a grapple attempt, then rocket away as fast as you can possibly go-)
"There's an alien! It's using a hacked fusion technique! If it wakes up before we can get her to a mage, her head explodes!"
"Give her to me, then." Yammar finally growls out. He's still close enough to disrupt you if you try to Transmit, but he's not actively attacking you.
You stop too, but don't relinquish Dandeer just yet. "We need a master sorcerer. Anything else triggers its wards and kills her. I've Seen it."
He opens his mouth, then bights off with a curse. "Do you trust him?" He's pointing at Dandelor.
That was not how you expected him to react. "Um. Yes. We've been working on this for over a year."
"Wake him up, then. Leave her with me; I can keep her from waking. Be fast." His tone is curt, and brooks no argument.
Well, that went better than expected. Do you hand her over?
[ ] Yes. You were losing solidly before, and this gives you a chance to change tactics.
-[ ] Write-in what. Yammar will react poorly to Dandelor trying to cast anything on him.
[ ] No. It's too risky to let her go, even if it would give you some breathing room.
-[ ] Write-in tactics.
I'm curious how this will change given the partial failure of the unsealing. I assume that the applicability criteria will change to include the other seals, and seems to be intensifying even further than what it was before.
Hey, have an Omake. I've had this idea for... quite a while now, but only just been reminded of it.
Talk Fast, Die Old
Yammar hasn't given you a moment's peace since you reached Dandeer. Not to shoot, not to run, not even to put fingers to your forehead. You just don't have enough limbs to wield your hostage and fight effectively. (You think of the Four Witches technique, and decide that trying to spontaneously reinvent it is a desperation move. You have one gambit left before you'll start trying those.)
So, between dodging a punch that turns into a blast aimed for your eye and blocking two kicks, you scream at him. "Stop this! I'm trying to save Dandeer!"
Yammar barely reacts to this declaration, still focused on overwhelming you with his frankly incredible skill. (Pinpoint kaiai there spinning you into his knee strike, remember to spend extra ki on retaliatory gutpunch so he can't just shoot the pinky with another weak-but-can-launch-from-anywhere beam, wide-angle blast through left shoulder to prevent a grapple attempt, then rocket away as fast as you can possibly go-)
"There's an alien! It's using a hacked fusion technique! If it wakes up before we can get her to a mage, her head explodes!"
"Give her to me, then." Yammar finally growls out. He's still close enough to disrupt you if you try to Transmit, but he's not actively attacking you.
You stop too, but don't relinquish Dandeer just yet. "We need a master sorcerer. Anything else triggers its wards and kills her. I've Seen it."
He opens his mouth, then bights off with a curse. "Do you trust him?" He's pointing at Dandelor.
That was not how you expected him to react. "Um. Yes. We've been working on this for over a year."
"Wake him up, then. Leave her with me; I can keep her from waking. Be fast." His tone is curt, and brooks no argument.
Well, that went better than expected. Do you hand her over?
[ ] Yes. You were losing solidly before, and this gives you a chance to change tactics.
-[ ] Write-in what. Yammar will react poorly to Dandelor trying to cast anything on him.
[ ] No. It's too risky to let her go, even if it would give you some breathing room.
-[ ] Write-in tactics.
