Voting is open
[X] Planet Zebul. It has absolutely everything you need, if you can just dodge the soldiers. See if you can see your way clear to a means of evading them -- or, at least, see if you can't eliminate it as a feasible possibility.

If this can work, it is best choice.

If it can't, we can fall back faster.

This is the right choice.
 
[X] Planet Zebul. It has absolutely everything you need, if you can just dodge the soldiers. See if you can see your way clear to a means of evading them -- or, at least, see if you can't eliminate it as a feasible possibility.
 
I feel like the highest-risk highest-reward choice is actually
[X] Planet Zebul. It has absolutely everything you need, if you can just dodge the soldiers. See if you can see your way clear to a means of evading them -- or, at least, see if you can't eliminate it as a feasible possibility.
And it should be relatively easy to work out even from a brief vision if Bassoon really has been made persona non grata there, which seems to be his main worry about it. If his description hasn't been circulated, it should be a good choice.
The exiles have training programs which can get an eight-year-old to fifteen million. It might be wise to share some of them with the host.
Being designed for Saiyans, those training programs presumably rely heavily on the Zenkai, which as far as I understand it is a Saiyan-only thing?
 
[X] Planet Zebul. It has absolutely everything you need, if you can just dodge the soldiers. See if you can see your way clear to a means of evading them -- or, at least, see if you can't eliminate it as a feasible possibility.

If this fails, then I guess we can go to the least risky option.
 
[X] Planet Pura. The middle-of-the-road option, but prone to cascade failures if you manage the risks poorly. Still, what else is Sight for, if not mitigating the odds of something going wrong?

There are comets in every system.

Can he construct a masque? Kakara witnessed it occurring when she had her second applied?

The obvious place to check is the uninhabited planet. It's the highest variance what with being either perfect or extra dangerous. If it comes back dangerous default to the middle option.

The exiles have training programs which can get an eight-year-old to fifteen million. It might be wise to share some of them with the host.
This assumes Bassoon or his ship has the capability to process comets.

The masque question has been touched on already.

If it's easy enough for him to figure it out from her recollections it can't be exclusive, and the speed with which the Exiles developed it from scratch despite have only a smudge of magical affinity and zero magical tradition suggests that it might be.

Nevertheless, he's a magic-focused character from a pretty peaceful civilization. The Royal Saiyan is bound to be able to contribute enough to at least get him up the five million he needs to match the promised threat.
I mean, this feels like an assumption?
 
[X] Planet Pura. The middle-of-the-road option, but prone to cascade failures if you manage the risks poorly. Still, what else is Sight for, if not mitigating the odds of something going wrong?


This assumes Bassoon or his ship has the capability to process comets.

The masque question has been touched on already.

I mean, this feels like an assumption?
I mean, Bassoon is described by Polaris as an 'adventurer' (also by Poptart's OOC intro to him), and in context from the exposition he is clearly one of the travelling warriors from Namek, as part of the status quo of 'everything is a dumpster fire, Namek is officially uninvolved but a number of namekian warriors make trouble against the Imperial'. Plus, he has been shown to be a decent combat mage, but not the sort of super dedicated master you would expect to not have trained a lot.
I mean, I asked about the power level sensed at the fall of Namek in the vision, and Bassoon is in the same general weight class as the strongest warriors of Namek, so 'magic focused' seems a bit misleading.
Honestly, we should probably just ask after his skillset after we do the vision during the travel time skip, since that seems like the sort of thing that would be useful to know from a planning perspective.
 
I feel like the highest-risk highest-reward choice is actually
[X] Planet Zebul. It has absolutely everything you need, if you can just dodge the soldiers. See if you can see your way clear to a means of evading them -- or, at least, see if you can't eliminate it as a feasible possibility.
And it should be relatively easy to work out even from a brief vision if Bassoon really has been made persona non grata there, which seems to be his main worry about it. If his description hasn't been circulated, it should be a good choice.

Being designed for Saiyans, those training programs presumably rely heavily on the Zenkai, which as far as I understand it is a Saiyan-only thing?

If it were that simple the training program would consist of, "daddy knocks you on your ass until you are at the absolute limit at age 1." There must be some insights.



[X] Planet Pura. The middle-of-the-road option, but prone to cascade failures if you manage the risks poorly. Still, what else is Sight for, if not mitigating the odds of something going wrong?


This assumes Bassoon or his ship has the capability to process comets.

The masque question has been touched on already.

I mean, this feels like an assumption?

There has never been a "Namekian Empire", and somebody with a power level of 20 million could trivially vaporize or crush into neutronium the average Oort object- and why the heck wouldn't a namekian's custom, stealth-equipped ship be equipped to process the most abundant compound in the universe?
 
If it were that simple the training program would consist of, "daddy knocks you on your ass until you are at the absolute limit at age 1." There must be some insights.
There must be some insights, but not necessarily insights that Kakara herself knows (being taught being a very different experience from doing teaching), that are also sufficient to raise Bassoon's power level by one-quarter its current max (or provide fighting expertise sufficient to close a 25% power differential), in a very short period of time, that can be done by one person without expert teachers or specialised training equipment and whose only sparring partner lives inside their head.
why the heck wouldn't a namekian's custom, stealth-equipped ship be equipped to process the most abundant compound in the universe?
Bassoon does note that his ship can process a fresh-water ocean here:
Planet 42-G. Uninhabited, so we couldn't get fuel there, but it's nearly all fresh-water oceans. We could fill right up on water, free of charge.
so presumably it has some level of filtration capacity. Maybe it just doesn't have good enough filters to clean up comet water? Wikipedia seems to indicate that comet ice is generally contaminated with all sorts of organic compounds, and particularly calls out carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, methane and ammonia (which isn't technically an organic compound, but whatever). Ammonia in particular is not super great to drink and mildly awkward to filter out of water, and is not something I'd expect to find a lot of in a freshwater ocean.
 
There's plenty of water in comets, but that water is dispersed over an extremely large area. In an ocean, he can drop in a hose and fuck off to read a book. Doing comet refining, he needs to go from spot to spot, harvesting celestial bodies for a very long time indeed. And all this on a trip where he explicitly noted he'd very much like to get to Namek ASAP, to say nothing of the colossal manhunt that will shortly be combing the place.
 
Alright, vote closed.

Vote Tally : Dragon Ball: After the End - Sci-Fi | Page 1386 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 34632-34657]
##### NetTally 1.9.10

[X] Planet Pura. The middle-of-the-road option, but prone to cascade failures if you manage the risks poorly. Still, what else is Sight for, if not mitigating the odds of something going wrong?
No. of Votes: 9

[X] Planet Zebul. It has absolutely everything you need, if you can just dodge the soldiers. See if you can see your way clear to a means of evading them -- or, at least, see if you can't eliminate it as a feasible possibility.
No. of Votes: 7

[X] Planet 42-G. What with the strange characters and the need to time your exit right, this prospect is all about chance. Maybe you can put your thumb on chance's scales.
No. of Votes: 6

Total No. of Voters: 18

[X] Planet Pura. The middle-of-the-road option, but prone to cascade failures if you manage the risks poorly. Still, what else is Sight for, if not mitigating the odds of something going wrong?

Your winner!
 
...I remember that on our first failed attempt to learn the spirit bomb that there was a bunch of 'consulting with experts' going on. I suppose it would be too much to hope that one of the experts that helped in the initial research of the spirit bomb manages to deal with Dandeer via Spirit Saiyan while were gone?
I mean if 'Elite corps of Kaioken and Ki Overcharging suicide tien stylists' is the unrealistic nightmare scenario that could happen if we gave Dandeer way to much credit, then this is the unrealistically good version of that.
A more realistic guess might be that there aren't any relevant combat assets outside of maybe a small number of sorcerors.
I really hope that we can mind project to Senzu hall to communicate with Dandelor (due to the whole 'sorcerors can see mind projections' thing).
I hope that Dandelor can whip out an epic ritual of doom that can help deal with some of the Super Saiyans for when we get back.
 
I think the default assumption is that nobody not specifically protected by House Senzu's wards will be capable of meaningful independent action.

I would hesitate to assume that Spirit Saiyan is a hard counter to Dandeer, because we DO have reason to think she's at least researched a countermeasure of some kind (e.g. disrupting the formation of the Spirit Bomb with seal-based magic before we get a chance to 'eat' the extra energy).

I would also even more strongly hesitate to get too speculative as to the details of Dandeer's defenses when we have no relevant intel from people living there or scrying on our part.
 
I think the default assumption is that nobody not specifically protected by House Senzu's wards will be capable of meaningful independent action.

I would hesitate to assume that Spirit Saiyan is a hard counter to Dandeer, because we DO have reason to think she's at least researched a countermeasure of some kind (e.g. disrupting the formation of the Spirit Bomb with seal-based magic before we get a chance to 'eat' the extra energy).

I would also even more strongly hesitate to get too speculative as to the details of Dandeer's defenses when we have no relevant intel from people living there or scrying on our part.
I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I thought that anyone on Garenhuld on our side of the fight outside of Senzu hall is capable of meaningful independent action, but assuming that we were largely successful in getting people to the hall, I would assume that some of the people we contacted would be the ones we shared the research on the spirit bomb with.
The post was more a series of random musing intended to be vaguely on topic, but...
I have no idea what her defense are going to be beyond 'worth investigating' and 'powerful and decently effective'.
Spirit Saiyan will probably be at least partially covered, yes.
Unfortunately, her magic is flexible enough that we will probably require some pretty through intel on the situation before engaging, which might be difficult to get without mage sight.
 
I think the default assumption is that nobody not specifically protected by House Senzu's wards will be capable of meaningful independent action.

I would hesitate to assume that Spirit Saiyan is a hard counter to Dandeer, because we DO have reason to think she's at least researched a countermeasure of some kind (e.g. disrupting the formation of the Spirit Bomb with seal-based magic before we get a chance to 'eat' the extra energy).
I wouldn't be surprised if she had some counter, but I would be very surprised if this was it, since it would allow us to trivially bypass it by, say, charging and absorbing the bomb off planet / withing sensu hall, then ITing in as a spirit saiyan. Personally, I'm basically certain that her primary method will be to stop the people she has under control from lending their energy, but beyond that I have no idea what the easiest way for her magic to interfere with us if we already have it charged would be. I honestly suspect it might be an unsolvable problem for her, given the sheer power gap involved and that Ki beats magic handily; I'm simply not willing to count on that when we could instead prepare solutions.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if she had some counter, but I would be very surprised if this was it, since it would allow us to trivially bypass it by, say, charging and absorbing the bomb off planet / withing sensu hall, then ITing in as a spirit saiyan. Personally, I'm basically certain that her primary method will be to stop the people she has under control from lending their energy, but beyond that I have no idea what the easiest way for her magic to interfere with us if we already have it charged would be. I honestly suspect it might be an unsolvable problem for her, given the sheer power gap involved and that Ki beats magic handily; I'm simply not willing to count on that when we could instead prepare solutions.

I assumed the counter would be something along the lines of poisoning the well with mind control magic to be passed along with Ki donations, so even if we notice the magic, it still negates the Spirit Bomb as being useful. If we don't we eat a massive amount of mind control magic and get controlled.

I'm still not convinced 'Ki beats magic' is correct. After all, every time we've seen magic get beaten has been with massively more Ki than magic. It's the equivalent of a forest fire beating a bucket of water.
 
I assumed the counter would be something along the lines of poisoning the well with mind control magic to be passed along with Ki donations, so even if we notice the magic, it still negates the Spirit Bomb as being useful. If we don't we eat a massive amount of mind control magic and get controlled.

I'm still not convinced 'Ki beats magic' is correct. After all, every time we've seen magic get beaten has been with massively more Ki than magic. It's the equivalent of a forest fire beating a bucket of water.
Bear in mind that we don't have an objective measure of "how much" ki is being thrown against "how much" magic.

Dandeer is the best magician the Exiles have ever produced, with enough power that with a well-timed ambush, she was able to overpower and kill nine thousand other magicians, including many of those previously thought to be the world's greatest. Even after the advantage of sheer ambush was discovered, she battled numerous other mages in the last moments of her slaughter, in something resembling a fair fight, and still won.

I would argue that it is grossly optimistic to say that if one of the royals has X amount of ki, Dandeer has X or less amount of magic. There are several royals at any one time, and have been for centuries; Dandeer is, so far as we know, unique.

It may well be that Dandeer is the equivalent of a Super Saiyan Two-level threat, at least given some advantages that, historically, she's had.
 
I am in a spectacular mood.

I am also completely exhausted.

The upshot is that there's, ah, no update coming tonight. Plus side! Here we circle back around to that spectacular mood, and I inject a bit of free word of Poptart into the ongoing debate.

Regardless of any measures Dandeer is taking against your return, one of your largest obstacles to planning a successful return home is likely to be Kakara herself. She is keeping it tamped down at the moment, and can at all due to that half-day venting session she earlier had, but Kakara is as close as this iteration of her character can physically become to being murderous with hatred for Dandeer. If you right now gave her back her body and hit her with a full charge of Spirit Saiyan, she'd turn around, go home, and proceed to not instantly knock out Dandeer, but to first humiliate her.

In short, your biggest hangup is going to be that if Kakara secures a decisive advantage over Dandeer, she's nearly certain to spend a significant part of it playing with her food.
 
I am in a spectacular mood.

I am also completely exhausted.

The upshot is that there's, ah, no update coming tonight. Plus side! Here we circle back around to that spectacular mood, and I inject a bit of free word of Poptart into the ongoing debate.

Regardless of any measures Dandeer is taking against your return, one of your largest obstacles to planning a successful return home is likely to be Kakara herself. She is keeping it tamped down at the moment, and can at all due to that half-day venting session she earlier had, but Kakara is as close as this iteration of her character can physically become to being murderous with hatred for Dandeer. If you right now gave her back her body and hit her with a full charge of Spirit Saiyan, she'd turn around, go home, and proceed to not instantly knock out Dandeer, but to first humiliate her.

In short, your biggest hangup is going to be that if Kakara secures a decisive advantage over Dandeer, she's nearly certain to spend a significant part of it playing with her food.
Bah, humbug. We'll have to channel that into more productive things - like knocking her out, securing victory, and then playing with our food.
 
I am in a spectacular mood.

I am also completely exhausted.

The upshot is that there's, ah, no update coming tonight. Plus side! Here we circle back around to that spectacular mood, and I inject a bit of free word of Poptart into the ongoing debate.

Regardless of any measures Dandeer is taking against your return, one of your largest obstacles to planning a successful return home is likely to be Kakara herself. She is keeping it tamped down at the moment, and can at all due to that half-day venting session she earlier had, but Kakara is as close as this iteration of her character can physically become to being murderous with hatred for Dandeer. If you right now gave her back her body and hit her with a full charge of Spirit Saiyan, she'd turn around, go home, and proceed to not instantly knock out Dandeer, but to first humiliate her.

In short, your biggest hangup is going to be that if Kakara secures a decisive advantage over Dandeer, she's nearly certain to spend a significant part of it playing with her food.
[] Past-Sight: Goku vs. Freeza

For a quick lesson in why playing with your food is a bad idea.
 
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