- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think we should definitely try to get a peaceful resolution out of this before going for the Future Plan.
OK, so where do we aim?
OK, so where do we aim?
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Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Italy
so, a list of what we have before we start deciding how to use it
usefull traits
1) Compelling Presence: our words have weight, so we should use them against Dandeer, if not to convince her/redeem her at least to gain time and intel
2)Convictions: we're in the right here, so unless we try to kill her this works.
3)Decisive: should apply, not sure.
4)Hopeful: other than the willpower bonus, this would be a... i won't say good, but interesting moment for our shounen monologue
5)Inquisitive: might help us to subtly get informations out of Dandeer, if we go the talky route
6)Knowledgeable Gokun Foreigner: ...i suppose we could talk to her following protocol? it would take her by surprise at least
7)Oddball: nothing to explain here
8)Socializer: one more communication bonus. Good if we go the talky route.
potentially usefull techniques:
1)Solar Flare
2)Monkey Ball 2: the reckoning
3)Instant transmission
4)Genkidama: maybe we can slowly/subtly charge it while talking?
5)tk to the tails. At least some between Jaffur, Vegeta, Berra and Apra probably have untrained tail.
possible plans
1) Once we get free, monkey ball, maybe we go golden oozaru as well to make more chaos and help the senzu and maybe Yammar escape
2)we go with the old, always beloved Talk No Jutsu and try to convince Dandeer this won't make her happy and that we can help her, because even if we hate her we DON'T want her to die and would agree to try mending bridges with her family (unsaid is that it would take YEARS at the very least, but it's not COMPLETELY impossible to achieve)
3) get free, solar flare, Dandeer by the tail again, gain time for Yammar and Senzu to escape. Maybe negotiate their escape for us releasing Dandeer.
4)tk to the tails. ALL the tails. If we also free Yammar this gives us a few seconds of surprise in which to act.
...i got nothing else right now. opinions?
usefull traits
1) Compelling Presence: our words have weight, so we should use them against Dandeer, if not to convince her/redeem her at least to gain time and intel
2)Convictions: we're in the right here, so unless we try to kill her this works.
3)Decisive: should apply, not sure.
4)Hopeful: other than the willpower bonus, this would be a... i won't say good, but interesting moment for our shounen monologue
5)Inquisitive: might help us to subtly get informations out of Dandeer, if we go the talky route
6)Knowledgeable Gokun Foreigner: ...i suppose we could talk to her following protocol? it would take her by surprise at least
7)Oddball: nothing to explain here
8)Socializer: one more communication bonus. Good if we go the talky route.
potentially usefull techniques:
1)Solar Flare
2)Monkey Ball 2: the reckoning
3)Instant transmission
4)Genkidama: maybe we can slowly/subtly charge it while talking?
5)tk to the tails. At least some between Jaffur, Vegeta, Berra and Apra probably have untrained tail.
possible plans
1) Once we get free, monkey ball, maybe we go golden oozaru as well to make more chaos and help the senzu and maybe Yammar escape
2)we go with the old, always beloved Talk No Jutsu and try to convince Dandeer this won't make her happy and that we can help her, because even if we hate her we DON'T want her to die and would agree to try mending bridges with her family (unsaid is that it would take YEARS at the very least, but it's not COMPLETELY impossible to achieve)
3) get free, solar flare, Dandeer by the tail again, gain time for Yammar and Senzu to escape. Maybe negotiate their escape for us releasing Dandeer.
4)tk to the tails. ALL the tails. If we also free Yammar this gives us a few seconds of surprise in which to act.
...i got nothing else right now. opinions?
- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
Full body paralysis isn't fatal.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
OK I got one. If we don't fastball the loogie, we can get Dandeer to choke on it, then yell that she needs medical attention. Low deceit check should make that work. Then grab a senzu bean off whoever comes to help.
- Location
- Italy
also plan 5: take advantage of her faith (if she still has it), try to redeem her with the argument that, as Penitent Vegeta proved, it's never too late to make ammend, and that while ALL the Z-warriors hated him in the beginning, he got to find love, friends and family in the end.
Mix it with plan 2 as needed
Mix it with plan 2 as needed
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
For this scenario.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Suffice to say that sufficiently severe neck trauma is fatal, in a variety of different ways depending on the exact nature of the trauma. If Kakara has and can use bullet spit against Dandeer, we need to do it in the awareness that Dandeer might die.
I don't actually have a problem with that, I just think we should be clear on it.
Well, I don't have a problem with the proposed points of aim. That's because I don't actually mind if Dandeer dies in this scenario. I just don't want us to kid ourselves, you know?
Getting someone to choke by spitting at their mouth sounds, uh... iffy?
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Just gotta make it a big and thick one.
Actually, given that we have limited TK, could we Force Choke her?
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- Location
- Italy
only if we go for the kill, assuming she does not have magic protection strong enough to stop us. Otherwise the other ssj would soon free her with their own tk.
unObservant
Just drifting along, really
- Location
- USA
I'm leaning towards following future Kakara's plan- but not immediately. Dandeer looks to be keying up for a monologue, and as far as I know the Senzus and captured Super Saiyans won't get any more trapped in the next couple minutes. Dandeer doesn't seem like the type to work while she gloats so we can probably get away with being ranted at/ talking/ going for the redemption speech, whichever we end up going for. While that's going on, we can try out our less obvious tricks and test the limits of the "Don't Move" spell we're under (TK, telepathy, seeing if it interferes with raising our PL, anything else we can brainstorm to try or test).
Obviously if Dandeer does start trying to seal us while she talks we skip to trying our more overt gambits and getting the hell out of there, but I think we should try to get as much information as possible before committing to something this huge.
Obviously if Dandeer does start trying to seal us while she talks we skip to trying our more overt gambits and getting the hell out of there, but I think we should try to get as much information as possible before committing to something this huge.
- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
..If they knew what was happening. And so long as choking stops shortly after unconsciousness, no permanent damage is dealt.
I'm of the opinion that any plan involving attacking her tail likely to fail; If I were her, I'd have put a seal on the pain from it, if only because kakara really did a number on it, and I doubt it's all better yet.
Also, going for the tail is an obvious plan, and thus included in the "hahahahah no" Odds that planetary mentioned.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My idea is we choke her, then pretend she's just started choking on her own to get one of them to come over with a senzu bean and proceed from there.
- Location
- Australia
No, it's definitely possible to win everything, and we can do so by talking her down. The chance of success of that plan is very small, but extant, and I'm willing to put my last cookie into it.
- Location
- Italy
[] it's nearly impossible, but you'll try to convince Dandeer with words instead of violence, as you always preferred. As it's your nature. Point how winning like this won't make her happy, as she'll still be alone on her throne. In time we could help her find happiness the same way Holy Goku helped Penitent Vegeta. She should know by now how we don't want anyone to die, even her, and in time Jaffur might come to forgive her, maybe even love her if she proves herself.
-[]If she goes all <it's too late, you'd never leave me alive> point to how her advanced magical abilities make her too important to kill, and how, if she accepted a few safety measures for a time (like sealed power when not under strict surveilance or working on a project for the lords, like, say, more advanced wards), she could probably be allowed a chance to prove herself. A chance to gain the love she wants.
--[]also point out how saiyans fighting against one another is doing the Enemy's work for him. With her help The Exiles might regain their ancient strenght, ascend above the super saiyan form and, in time, reclaim their rightfull place in the universe.
---[]if it doesn't work, go with Future Kakara's plan.
@PoptartProdigy could something like this possibly work? If you can't/won't tell, does Kakara think there is at least a chance?
This is more or less what i'd like to try. It's unlikely, but possible, and it would be wonderfull if it worked.
It would also be a validation of all Kakara believes in.
-[]If she goes all <it's too late, you'd never leave me alive> point to how her advanced magical abilities make her too important to kill, and how, if she accepted a few safety measures for a time (like sealed power when not under strict surveilance or working on a project for the lords, like, say, more advanced wards), she could probably be allowed a chance to prove herself. A chance to gain the love she wants.
--[]also point out how saiyans fighting against one another is doing the Enemy's work for him. With her help The Exiles might regain their ancient strenght, ascend above the super saiyan form and, in time, reclaim their rightfull place in the universe.
---[]if it doesn't work, go with Future Kakara's plan.
@PoptartProdigy could something like this possibly work? If you can't/won't tell, does Kakara think there is at least a chance?
This is more or less what i'd like to try. It's unlikely, but possible, and it would be wonderfull if it worked.
It would also be a validation of all Kakara believes in.
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy, could you run through the use of willpower pushes in diplomacy for us again?
- Location
- Italy
added a point near the end
[] it's nearly impossible, but you'll try to convince Dandeer with words instead of violence, as you always preferred. As it's your nature. Point how winning like this won't make her happy, as she'll still be alone on her throne. In time we could help her find happiness the same way Holy Goku helped Penitent Vegeta. She should know by now how we don't want anyone to die, even her, and in time Jaffur might come to forgive her, maybe even love her if she proves herself.
-[]If she goes all <it's too late, you'd never leave me alive> point to how her advanced magical abilities make her too important to kill, and how, if she accepted a few safety measures for a time (like sealed power when not under strict surveilance or working on a project for the lords, like, say, more advanced wards), she could probably be allowed a chance to prove herself. A chance to gain the love she wants.
--[]also point out how saiyans fighting against one another is doing the Enemy's work for him. With her help The Exiles might regain their ancient strenght, ascend above the super saiyan form and, in time, reclaim their rightfull place in the universe.
---[] if she thinks we're lying, offer her to seal away our ability to lie to verify we're telling the truth, and that we really mean what we're saiying.
----[]if it doesn't work, go with Future Kakara's plan.
[] it's nearly impossible, but you'll try to convince Dandeer with words instead of violence, as you always preferred. As it's your nature. Point how winning like this won't make her happy, as she'll still be alone on her throne. In time we could help her find happiness the same way Holy Goku helped Penitent Vegeta. She should know by now how we don't want anyone to die, even her, and in time Jaffur might come to forgive her, maybe even love her if she proves herself.
-[]If she goes all <it's too late, you'd never leave me alive> point to how her advanced magical abilities make her too important to kill, and how, if she accepted a few safety measures for a time (like sealed power when not under strict surveilance or working on a project for the lords, like, say, more advanced wards), she could probably be allowed a chance to prove herself. A chance to gain the love she wants.
--[]also point out how saiyans fighting against one another is doing the Enemy's work for him. With her help The Exiles might regain their ancient strenght, ascend above the super saiyan form and, in time, reclaim their rightfull place in the universe.
---[] if she thinks we're lying, offer her to seal away our ability to lie to verify we're telling the truth, and that we really mean what we're saiying.
----[]if it doesn't work, go with Future Kakara's plan.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The problem here is I don't think Kakara believes that Jaffur will ever forgive Dandeer for what she's done.
Also HAH! saiying.
OK lets be clear: Jaffur hesitated because he was mentally linked to us and felt our reluctance. That one is our bad.
Also, can you add in a question asking about her justification for the sorcerer genocide? I got a funny feeling about it.
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shepsquared
Erratic Aussie
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
Huh, so Dandeer actually does want to be loved by her family. And be in charge of everything I guess? I really wish we knew more about her motivations for this plan.
- Location
- Italy
Jaffur hesitated when he had the chance to kill her. And he trusts us. Also Kakara is very idealistic, so the fact SHE believes it is possible (in a few years-decades) would make sense, even if Jaffur would never actually forgive her.
pun intended
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Really not that deep. She was in an abusive relationship with her husband where she had no control. She wanted control.
Unless we're factoring in the whole Sorcerer Genocide thing, but I'm beginning to have doubts about that whole thing being Dandeer.
speaking of, can we ask her about that?
- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
Vegeta! Stop possessing people!pun intended
@chryssalideater , use the edit button; you've been double posting a lot.
- Location
- Italy
i'd avoid it while we're trying to convince her, unless she brings it up first. We can always ask once she's secured if we succeed.
I mean, it can only make it more unlikely she believes us if we ask her about a genocide, and then tell we'd help her anyway. Better let her believe we don't know about it for now.
i admit it's not much, but it's at least a starting point. And Kakara has Hopefull as a foundational trait.
And if we convince him Dandeer can be safely used, maybe to make those so much needed ssj2 level wards, he should at least be willing to let her live.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The thing is based off how she's currently acting, I don't think she knows about it. See that Jekyll and Hyde conversation me and @Simon_Jester had a while back for more.
Also, we need to bring that up regardless, because if we don't she'll probably go "Oh you don't understand I can never be forgiven etc." Gotta let her know we've seen the worst and are still ready to forgive.
- Location
- Italy
if SHE brings it up first, then fine. I'm against saying it first.
If she doesn't remember, it can only make things worse.
If she does, than it could go both well or badly, but i think "badly" is more likely.
Feel free to modify my plan by adding that variation though. We're still exploring possibilities here, and I'd still prefer it going with Future Kakara's plan or, Saint Gohan Forbid, the "we'll fight against everyone, free them all and win with our own power even if Future Me told me it's impossible, what could possibly go wrong?"