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Dragon Ball: After the End

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HoratioVonBecker said:
And your opinion of 'my' write-in; the IT-Solar Flare fakeout?
(I formalized the clever thing someone else suggested. I don't recall who.)
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I got lazy about halfway through writing that up, sorry.

It opposes Berra's deceit with ours, and ends with a malus on him on success. This is good, but if we do that as the whole update, then Vegeta gets back up, and then we have to deal with both of them, protect Dandelor and Jaffur, and take out Dandeer.

As it stands, we have to act decisively, one way or another, and that's not particularly decisive.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
As the strobe of golden light goes off and blinds your parents, Jaffur lunges up, apparently conscious after all, transforms, and seizes your Dad's tail. Dad stiffens and falls to the ground, his strength gone, and Jaffur lunges out, reaching towards you. You reach out, and the instant your fingers touch-
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You know, I'd forgotten that Berra at least used to have an untrained tail.
 
Honestly, I'm feeling pretty ambivalent to any of the options, save that the winning one (tail and flail) seems pretty stupid to me... almost as stupid as what I'm about to propose, but at this point I'm almost beyond caring.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Bait Berra into a beam struggle. Give it everything you have. Reflect on your mistakes. Create that need.

The wording may be vague, but I think everyone can get where I'm going with that.
 
ElleonXan said:
Honestly, I'm feeling pretty ambivalent to any of the options, save that the winning one (tail and flail) seems pretty stupid to me... almost as stupid as what I'm about to propose, but at this point I'm almost beyond caring.

[] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[] Bait Berra into a beam struggle. Give it everything you have. Reflect on your mistakes. Create that need.

The wording may be vague, but I think everyone can get where I'm going with that.
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Um... could you at least consider approval-voting for some other gambit that is likely to win AND is not, in your opinion, stupid? Like the "get Jaffur to the Senzus" option or the "just attack Dandeer normally" option?
 
Simon_Jester said:
Um... could you at least consider approval-voting for some other gambit that is likely to win AND is not, in your opinion, stupid? Like the "get Jaffur to the Senzus" option or the "just attack Dandeer normally" option?
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Nope. By now, my oversaturation fatigue is near reaching its boiling point, and the only way my tired mind can see of fixing that is to break the paradigm. Doing the regular things in the regular way will most likely result in the status quo being upheld. Thus, something crazy must be done. Besides, this seems like a great time to aim for the Second Level.
 
ElleonXan said:
Nope. By now, my oversaturation fatigue is near reaching its boiling point, and the only way my tired mind can see of fixing that is to break the paradigm. Doing the regular things in the regular way will most likely result in the status quo being upheld. Thus, something crazy must be done. Besides, this seems like a great time to aim for the Second Level.
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A. The tail flail is pretty crazy/unorthodox and
B. That may get The Enemy on our ass and us executed (at least if I'm right about what I think you're suggesting).
 
ElleonXan said:
Honestly, I'm feeling pretty ambivalent to any of the options, save that the winning one (tail and flail) seems pretty stupid to me... almost as stupid as what I'm about to propose, but at this point I'm almost beyond caring.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Bait Berra into a beam struggle. Give it everything you have. Reflect on your mistakes. Create that need.

The wording may be vague, but I think everyone can get where I'm going with that.
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Well, either you are trying to get a willpower push to try to beat a golden oozaru, which has a power level 33% higher than us or (375 million higher) which might severely injure our father or leave us exhausted for when Vegeta recovers or you want us to try to go SS2 and not only break the wards of the hall ruining the masquerade, attracting the Enemy and getting everyone to try to put us down... in which case you are mistaken with the method since SS2 needs an epiphany instead of need to be unlocked.
 
ElleonXan said:
Nope. By now, my oversaturation fatigue is near reaching its boiling point, and the only way my tired mind can see of fixing that is to break the paradigm. Doing the regular things in the regular way will most likely result in the status quo being upheld. Thus, something crazy must be done. Besides, this seems like a great time to aim for the Second Level.
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Ummm... I'm honestly sorry, but that seems kind of unreasonable to me?

Please be wiling to vote for things that aren't explicitly intended to arbitrarily blow up the game, maybe?

We really, really do not have any compelling reason to just automatically decide that everything's fucked and that conventional options like "heal our allies" or "attack our enemy" are somehow arbitrarily doomed just because Poptart apparently provides nothing but solid slabs of trap options and that despite making explicitly confirmed progress against our opponents everything is somehow doomed?

I mean, I'm not even asking your tired mind to think of a way to solve this. We've already got some ways.
 
ElleonXan said:
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Bait Berra into a beam struggle. Give it everything you have. Reflect on your mistakes. Create that need.
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Getting into a beam struggle with a Golden Ape is a terrible idea, since I actually don't think a newly made is that much stronger than a Golden Ape (just much faster) and I also don't think we can get Super Saiyan 2 on demand.

Cariyaga said:
  • Leaves Berra to take out Dandelor, which means no more magic support
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Even if Dandelor gets taken out, if the fight gets back into a level where we have time to take a breather (as in, we do not have to fight two opponents at once), we have plenty of magic support. We can easily get more magic support by informing the Gokun sorcerers that Berra is currently being mind controlled by Dandeer. I very much doubt that they'd like that.

If anything, the longer the fight lasts, the more advantage we have, since every non-mind controlled Saiyan on the planet should be on our side once they learn the truth. I really think trying to end the fight by going for Dandeer was a mistake, because that's not really necessary for us to win. We just need to wait until we get enough magic support to easily overwhelm Dandeer.

Plus, if we get Jaffur back up, he could potentially help overcharge any attempt to break the mind control.
 
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Cariyaga said:
How'd that work out for the vegetan sorcerors?
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Well, the maximum amount of magical support they ended up being able to bring to bear amounted to about fifty sorcerers' worth. There are a couple more Gokun sorcerers than that, and Dandeer most likely hasn't got a massive selective antimagic circle set up on the floor of the Hall.
 
Cariyaga said:
How'd that work out for the vegetan sorcerors?
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Not very well, but that's because she had an anti-magic circle, so they didn't really have any magic at all.

Also, I don't see how relying on all Gokun sorcerers being able to break the spell is more risky than relying on Dandelor alone being enough.
 
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I think I'm going to do a quick tally, because I haven't seen one in a while.
Adhoc vote count started by KaintukeeBob on Aug 23, 2018 at 10:04 AM, finished with 29589 posts and 29 votes.
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PoptartProdigy said:
[ ] The tide has turned. It's time to start trying to cut your losses. Tell everybody that you've lost this one, and it's time to leave.
-[ ] Get to Jaffur and transmit him to the Hall.
-[ ] Evacuate Grandma.
-[ ] Screen the Senzus while they withdraw.
-[ ] The Hall is a potent symbol of legitimacy, and Dandeer's already going to be short of that after today. Carpet-bomb it; it's not like it'll harm the wards. As a bonus, you recall she has a workshop in her apartments; take extra care to wreck those.
-[ ] Get yourself out. ENDS THE FIGHT WITH KAKARA WITHDRAWING.
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Have to say surprised by these options. If Kakara withdraws there is no reason for her not to come back in 5 minutes with a fully charged spirt bomb.
 
fictionfan said:
Have to say surprised by these options. If Kakara withdraws there is no reason for her not to come back in 5 minutes with a fully charged spirt bomb.
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If she were still there in five minutes, she'd deserve whatever she got. She's got magic out the whazoo and no reason to hide any longer - too many people have witnessed what she's done and she didn't have a mimetic hazard set up ahead of time, so she's essentially got to kill everyone on our side (excepting perhaps re-Sealing Jaffur) and solidify her mind control if she wants any chance of victory. And her first act if we were to withdraw would be to have Berra take all her mind slaves (and herself) to a prepared bolt-hole where they could hide. Within a few hours, the Lords Berra and Vegeta would be announcing the treason of Scion Kakara and former Lady Apra, and Dandeer would be solidifying her control.

No, those are all clearly 'lose' conditions for us, just deciding which allies we retain. They change the quest into one where Kakara is on the run. And I don't particularly want to play a DBZQuest version of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.
 
fictionfan said:
Have to say surprised by these options. If Kakara withdraws there is no reason for her not to come back in 5 minutes with a fully charged spirt bomb.
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I think it's mostly the fact that we'd be abandoning most of our allies. We could probably grab at least some people with Instant Transmission, but not everyone, and Berra would be able to follow us with Instant Transmission as well.

That said, do we know if Apra knows Instant Transmission?
 
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Vote Tally : Dragon Ball: After the End - Sci-Fi | Page 1181 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 29503-29579]
##### NetTally 1.9.8

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Go for Dandeer's tail, using her as a flail to keep Berra at bay while Dandelor breaks the mind control.
No. of Votes: 14
Andres110
Cariyaga
chryssalideater
Conceptualist
DkArthas
HoratioVonBecker
KaintukeeBob
Keldin
Modus_Tollens
Pittauro
QTesseract
Terrabrand
VicSage
WorthyAlchemist?

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.
No. of Votes: 11
HoratioVonBecker
Akiri
Aranfan
Bakkasama
Bommelom
Geordiefan
Gore17
QTesseract
Simon_Jester
Terrabrand
Unearthly Sight

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.
No. of Votes: 9
HoratioVonBecker
Akiri
Geordiefan
Gore17
LeMat
QTesseract
Simon_Jester
Terrabrand
veekie

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.
No. of Votes: 8
HoratioVonBecker
Akiri
Bakkasama
Bommelom
Geordiefan
Gore17
Simon_Jester
Terrabrand

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to break your Father out of his mind control.
--[X] Freeze in mid-air instead of dodging an incoming attack, and drop your Power Level to 80,000,000. Any attack from your father which connects will end you. You know he won't do that.
No. of Votes: 5
Tylonius
anailater
CaesriusPolybius
Jrin
KaintukeeBob

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] TK-grab Dad's tail. Hope it paralyzes him.
No. of Votes: 4
HoratioVonBecker
Akiri
Jrin
QTesseract

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Raise fingers as if to use Instant Transmission, but actually use it as a decoy for Solar Flare.
No. of Votes: 2
chryssalideater
HoratioVonBecker

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Your father is powerful right now, but also slow. Just try to keep ahead of him, and focus on giving your Grandma fire support. Hopefully your interference will let her take him down quickly, and get her back in the fight.
No. of Votes: 1
HoratioVonBecker

[X] Raise fingers as if to use Instant Transmission, but actually use it as a decoy for Solar Flare.
No. of Votes: 1
Akiri

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Bait Berra into a beam struggle. Give it everything you have. Reflect on your mistakes. Create that need.
No. of Votes: 1
ElleonXan

Total No. of Voters: 29

The option to use Dandeer as combined human shield and weapon to keep Berra at bay while Dandelor tries to break the mind control is out front, with getting Jaffur to the Senzus close behind. Third place goes to putting Dandeer straight out of the fight, and right behind that is the option to take down Vegeta while he's disabled. All other options are currently way out in back.
 
On an unrelated note... I want the ki attack Berra used to blow off Lord Vegeta's tail to have been a Kienzan.

For sentimental reasons. I figure in some cosmic sense, it would decrement the "Krillin owned" counter by -1. :p
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.

Much as the idea of a mage-flail sounds glorious to me, I had to pick this.

We can't be certain Dandeer's bag of tricks is empty, and so far in this fight we've repeatedly had issues where we take too much time in dealing with each surprise so the next one gives us grief. Focusing on getting Jaffur back to his feet has a problem where we're only getting right back to where we were before Jaffur attacked. Likewise, if we can get Dandeer out of the picture by grabbing her tail, getting her out of the fight is an even better option.

I think we just have to press forward with what we have on the table.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Now that seems as good a reason as any for me to say it wasn't. ;)
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Me, I think it's funnier if the counter CAN decrement, it just almost never does.

It's like, the cosmos telling Krillin "you can't possibly win," versus the cosmos telling Krillin "yes, you COULD win if you played your cards right... but you won't." For me, the latter adds a sort of pleasant spice to the schadenfreude, which is absent in the former case.

VagueZ said:
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.

Much as the idea of a mage-flail sounds glorious to me, I had to pick this.

We can't be certain Dandeer's bag of tricks is empty, and so far in this fight we've repeatedly had issues where we take too much time in dealing with each surprise so the next one gives us grief. Focusing on getting Jaffur back to his feet has a problem where we're only getting right back to where we were before Jaffur attacked. Likewise, if we can get Dandeer out of the picture by grabbing her tail, getting her out of the fight is an even better option.

I think we just have to press forward with what we have on the table.
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I like the cut of your jib.
 
I don't understand how Kakara can get to Dandeer against Berra's sky-high dueling.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

This isn't the return to status quo, Dandeer is now distracted and denied seer's predictions, while Dandelor is here and working his own magic.
 
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LockedMind said:
I don't understand how Kakara can get to Dandeer against Berra's sky-high dueling.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

This isn't the return to status quo, Dandeer is now distracted and denied seer's predictions, while Dandelor is here and working his own magic.
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ilbgar123 said:
Because Oozaru, golden or not, have terrible speed for their powerlevel.
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That's more or less the way it'd work, yeah. Mind, Berra is still terrifyingly good, but the speed debuff and the fact that he can't actually go all-out without snapping the wards mean that Kakara thinks it's feasible to work around him.
 
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