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That's why I modified the vote to say we aren't just dropping our PL, we are explicitly looking to be in front of an attack that's coming our way before we drop it.

Whether it's a punch or a ki blast, we will be dropping our PL shortly before it hits us, not just dropping our PL and giving Berra a chance to react.

Which in turn risks him NOT reacting in time and killing us by accident.

Both options are not ideal. If the getting through Berra option fails, we lose the fight and if we fail to get through Dandeer, Vegeta recovers and we become outnumbered.
 
Even if Dandeer has trained her tail, Kakara was taken out momentarily when hers was severed, and I don't doubt that it will be further distracting -- hopefully enough for Dandelor to break the mind control.
Right, time to make one last argument against the Dandeer-flail before I go to sleep.

We have absolutely no idea how long it will take Dandelor to break the mind control, and we're pretty much betting the fight on that he will be able to do so before Vegeta and Berra manage leverage their numbers advantage into getting knocking us out or making us lose control of Dandeer (by, say, one of them hitting us in the back while Dandeer is in front of us, or Berra managing to get us with a Solar Flare and Vegeta knocking us out while we can't use Dandeer as a shield).

It could be relatively easy and only take a few seconds, or it could be pretty much impossible to do while they're resisting and we'll just have to wait for the spell to wear off by itself (which also might never happen). Since Dandeer is a better sorcerer than Dandelor, and it likely took her prep to prepare the mind control, I don't want to bet our chances of victory on Dandelor being able to do it quickly.

Getting to Dandeer is going to be relatively hard, since we just went after her twice in a row and Berra's going to be prepared for that, and if we succeed, the pay-off is then having to hold off Vegeta and Berra for an unknown amount of time, with no ki techniques since both our arms hands will be used to hold Dandeer. It's simply a lot of risk for a reward that might not be that good, and once both of our hand are occupied with Dandeer, we're locked into a fight that we might not have a chance of winning.

Meanwhile, if we go for Jaffur or Vegeta, we're more likely to succeed, since Berra will be focused on protecting Dandeer (as we just went for her twice), and the immediate payoff is a lot better, either removing a third of the enemies' power (if we go for Vegeta) or getting our strongest fighter back up (if we go for Jaffur). Plus, after we've evened the odds (or heck, even if we fail to do so) we will then be able to go for Dandeer, and then we'll only have to hold off one enemy rather than two.

Now, out of going for Vegeta and going for healing Jaffur, I think Vegeta is the better option because Golden Ape Berra will be more able interfere with healing Jaffur by attacking the Senzus than he's able to protect Vegeta with his relatively low speed, but either give a lot more immediate payoff than grabbing Dandeer's tail.
Whether it's a punch or a ki blast, we will be dropping our PL shortly before it hits us, not just dropping our PL and giving Berra a chance to react.
That's even more risky. What if Berra can't stop the blast and we end up dead or taken out of the fight?
 
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[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.

I don't like the meatshield plan much. Would it be amazing if it succeeds? Hell yes. Is it more likely to succeed than just knocking Dandeer out as soon as we have an opportunity? Ehhhhh. Keeping her conscious and giving her a chance to continue influencing the fight seems silly, especially since we'd have both Berra and Vegeta trying to rescue her. Are we really that confident in outmaneuvering them both? It's adding unnecessary risk in my opinion. It feels to me like people are voting a little too much with their emotions here, when the only real considerations should be which plan's give us the best chance of winning, while introducing as few points of failure as possible.
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to break your Father out of his mind control.
--[X] Freeze in mid-air instead of dodging an incoming attack, and drop your Power Level to 80,000,000. Any attack from your father which connects will end you. You know he won't do that.
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.

aaaand...

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Go for Dandeer's tail, using her as a flail to keep Berra at bay while Dandelor breaks the mind control.

Because Grievous Harm With A Body is a good trope for comedy. Besides, we've actually gotten better results from our goofy oddball tactics than we have from conventional fighting, so far...
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Aug 22, 2018 at 6:36 PM, finished with 29555 posts and 24 votes.
 
Breaking through to Berra is likely impossible. Dandeer's magic is strong enough to keep Vegeta and Jaffur, two very strong-willed individuals.
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Go for Dandeer's tail, using her as a flail to keep Berra at bay while Dandelor breaks the mind control.
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.
 
That's actually one of my problems with the option. This doesn't really strike me as a comedic moment. Not that I think that's how Poptart will write it. It just seems out of place.
I feel it's more cathartic than anything else. And it doesn't involve throwing ourselves into the line of fire of a gun. No matter how bad an idea flail *might* be (even though it synchs with oddball and all plans have ways they can go wrong) I honestly can't see it being a worse idea than that.
 
I mean, if you want to break Through Berra at least take advantage in the lever we know he has with his foundational trait of atoner, which is more likely to give him bonus, by bombarding with telepathic memories of how much he screwed up. That is a lot less risky than betting he won't kill us given the chance.
 
Breaking through to Berra is likely impossible. Dandeer's magic is strong enough to keep Vegeta and Jaffur, two very strong-willed individuals.
Vegeta and Yammar. And... as far as I know...

We have no clear evidence of Lord Vegeta being exceptionally strong-willed. He's sadistic, but that's not the same thing. Nothing about the man makes me think of him as a paragon of mental discipline.

We have limited evidence of Yammar being exceptionally strong-willed. He's ruthless, but that's not the same thing. See previous.

I'm actually more impressed by Dandeer (presumably) being able to maintain mental control of Sensei Carrick, who probably DOES have a high degree of mental discipline given how much Sight relies on being able to control one's thoughts.
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.
 
Vegeta and Yammar. And... as far as I know...

We have no clear evidence of Lord Vegeta being exceptionally strong-willed. He's sadistic, but that's not the same thing. Nothing about the man makes me think of him as a paragon of mental discipline.

We have limited evidence of Yammar being exceptionally strong-willed. He's ruthless, but that's not the same thing. See previous.

I'm actually more impressed by Dandeer (presumably) being able to maintain mental control of Sensei Carrick, who probably DOES have a high degree of mental discipline given how much Sight relies on being able to control one's thoughts.

Again, Carrick being controlled might not even be the plurality explanation.
 
I'll again say that I feel like the tail flail might skip over some of Dandeer's preparations out of the sheer unexpectedness of it. All things considered, it might actually be safer than going for the knockout (I can't believe I'm saying this with a straight face.)
 
Cariyaga's Totally Unbiased Analysis of Most Voting Options:

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Go for Dandeer's tail, using her as a flail to keep Berra at bay while Dandelor breaks the mind control.

Pros:
  • The clear best option.
  • Unexpected, gets Oddball bonus
  • Can use Dandeer to keep Berra from targetting Kakara
  • Humiliation points.
  • Gives Dandelor a likely-substantial bonus to breaking mind control if successful
  • Is my vote. A vote for my vote is a vote for my vote.
Cons:
  • Berra may intercept Kakara before she gets the chance to
  • Dandeer may have done tail training like Kakara did, lessening its effect
  • Dandeer may have additional magical protections in place

[ ] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[ ] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

Pros:
  • Gets Jaffur back into play ASAP
  • Avoids engagement with Berra or Dandeer
Cons:
  • Leaves Berra to take out Dandelor, which means no more magic support
  • Leaves Dandelor vs. Dandeer with no further help.
[ ] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[ ] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.

Pros:
  • Aims to take out Dandeer ASAP
  • If successful, will at minimum open up Dandelor for taking out the mind control unopposed
  • Mission likely success
Cons:
  • Comes against any remaining defenses Dandeer has against KOing her. (Dead-man's switch for KO seems likely given her personality and that Kakara is in opposition to her.)
  • Will likely have to make a roll against Berra either before or after KOing her.
[ ] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[ ] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.

Pros:
  • Evens up combat, with Jaffur being out cold.
Cons:
  • Leaves Berra to take out Dandelor, which means no more magic support
  • Leaves Dandelor vs. Dandeer with no further help.
[ ] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[ ] Try to break your Father out of his mind control.
--[ ] Freeze in mid-air instead of dodging an incoming attack, and drop your Power Level to 80,000,000. Any attack from your father which connects will end you. You know he won't do that.

Pros:
  • Plays into Berra's traits
  • Mission success if victorious
Cons:
  • Is suicidal at worst, and foolhardy at best
  • Berra could simply KO Kakara instead of killing her. He's shown himself to have self control and intellect while mind controlled.
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Go for Dandeer's tail, using her as a flail to keep Berra at bay while Dandelor breaks the mind control.

Do we get bonus points depending on how many strange objects Dandeer has to go through before the happy funtime merry-go-round comes to a complete halt? I want to see if we can make her choke on a low flying migratory bird...
 
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You know, the more I think about this, the more it sounds just plain reckless and irresponsible to say "grab Dandeer and use her as a human shield who will still be alive and healthy if Berra Solar Flares us or something" as opposed to just "knock out Dandeer with your super-saiyan might." Berra is proving way too good a tactician for us to rely on such gimmicks to defeat him directly.

Plus, y'know, Jaffur needs medical attention. :p

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.
 
You know, the more I think about this, the more it sounds just plain reckless and irresponsible to say "grab Dandeer and use her as a human shield who will still be alive and healthy if Berra Solar Flares us or something" as opposed to just "knock out Dandeer with your super-saiyan might." Berra is proving way too good a tactician for us to rely on such gimmicks to defeat him directly.

Plus, y'know, Jaffur needs medical attention. :p

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Keep going after Dandeer, in conjunction with Dandelor. She is as distracted as she is ever going to get. It'll mean getting past your father to do it, but you have the edge in speed; it should be doable.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] The Senzus can't reach Jaffur right now without turning into collateral damage. Focus on getting him to them for healing.

[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Try to get around your father and take down Vegeta before he returns to base form. If you can even the numbers, you can still salvage this.
I mean, honestly, I mostly put that thing up there together to object specifically to doing anything that doesn't take Berra's full attention; that'd leave Dandleor vulnerable. So, going after Vegeta or Jaffur means we lose our magic support.
 
[X] Fight on. You can still win this.
-[X] Go for Dandeer's tail, using her as a flail to keep Berra at bay while Dandelor breaks the mind control.

Pros:
  • The clear best option.
  • Unexpected, gets Oddball bonus
  • Can use Dandeer to keep Berra from targetting Kakara
  • Humiliation points.
  • Gives Dandelor a likely-substantial bonus to breaking mind control if successful
  • Is my vote. A vote for my vote is a vote for my vote.
Cons:
  • Berra may intercept Kakara before she gets the chance to
  • Dandeer may have done tail training like Kakara did, lessening its effect
  • Dandeer may have additional magical protections in place

Additional Cons:
  • In exchange for avoiding hypothetical KO deadman switches, we face a still awake Dandeer who despite being in a lot of pain is going to be very close to Kakara for quite a long time.
  • Plans with multiple steps can fail at any of them, see Meerak encounter. This is a multi-step process that is more complicated than Punch Her Lights Out And End Her Magical Struggles.
Honestly, I really don't know with this vote. The Flail might be a really good shot to turn the tide in our favor, but if we get that close we can just end her part in the fight if we get a punch in. When we do start swinging, I don't suppose smashing her into the floor as part of our swings is a potential addendum? That would be even more disruptive to both her concentration and her physical efforts to attack Kakara.
 
I mean, honestly, I mostly put that thing up there together to object specifically to doing anything that doesn't take Berra's full attention; that'd leave Dandleor vulnerable. So, going after Vegeta or Jaffur means we lose our magic support.
And your opinion of 'my' write-in; the IT-Solar Flare fakeout?
(I formalized the clever thing someone else suggested. I don't recall who.)
 
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