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Dragon Ball: After the End

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[X] Take these last moments to do something before proceeding to the plan as established.
-[X] Get a feel for Jaffur's present state of mind.
-[X] "Wait, where's Jaron?"
 
Why can't we just do something like
[] IT to your father
-[] "Hi dad! I just wanted you to know, Dandeer is a lying bitch"
--[] Give him the memory where she tortures herself while saying her son did it.
---[] IT back to the Senzu compound

Problem #37 solved.
 
We can't? I was assuming we would do something like that. I mean, sure, it is a bit cruel but it is also a sure way to get the point across and the impact would stun him enough that he would be more likely to cooperate.

As for the IT bit, we want his cooperation and we have to see that he doesn't interrupt Dandeer's arrest so we must stay to see the fallout.
 
Andres110 said:
Look at our techniques list. None of them let us do that. Closest is telepathy but that's just speech.
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i'm pretty sure we transferred memories/images with it once.
The thing we can't technically do is IT to him, because he's in the hall and we can't sense him from the outside, but that would just slow us by a few minutes at most.
 
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I think we can transmit memories.

I stopped and thought for a minute, and the only reason I could think of that we might be unable to transmit this particular memory is that it's limited only to members of the Vegetan royal family... but then, Berra's the guy we got that Vegetan ancestry from in the first place, so that isn't a problem.
 
Can't remember if anyone ever brought this up, but does anyone recall how Vegeta Vegeta and Berra used to be best buddies? Like brothers, to the point where IIRC Grandma noted they were closer to each other than to their wives?

Recent information about Dandeer really throws that whole sudden-out-of-nowhere fight and resulting hatred for each other in a new light, doesn't it? It might be that all of Dandeer's problems are ones she's made herself.
 
Hell, I have to wonder if even some of her own mental problems are caused by her own magics. If you erect and reinforce false memories, mental blocks, seemings... at some point even you might be operating on broken views of the world. She might have always been a monster, but not necessarily the same monster.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Can't remember if anyone ever brought this up, but does anyone recall how Vegeta Vegeta and Berra used to be best buddies? Like brothers, to the point where IIRC Grandma noted they were closer to each other than to their wives?

Recent information about Dandeer really throws that whole sudden-out-of-nowhere fight and resulting hatred for each other in a new light, doesn't it? It might be that all of Dandeer's problems are ones she's made herself.
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Acording to Apra, Berra seemed to think less of Vegeta ever since the Talt rebellion. I mean, I guess it could be possible for her to incite the final confrontation but the seeds for the sundering were already there.
 
Alternatively, it could be both.

I mean, Berra could have been quietly and irrationally angry at Vegeta ever since the suppressing of House Talt, AND this could have all boiled over in the wake of the enormous stresses that both Berra and Vegeta must have faced as newly ascended Lords, dealing with the enormous chaos that the loss of the Vegetan sorcerors would have put on both clans. For that matter, those stresses would have been even worse because the principals involved (Berra and Vegeta) couldn't admit or even comprehend what they were actually being upset by and upset about. Berra's Gokun sorcerors would be frantically trying to keep up a double workload of Masqueing and warding and whatnot, in the middle of a population boom brought on by the policies both Lords inherited from Apra and Yammar. And he can't really do more than dance around the issue, because... don't think about it too much.

Vegeta wouldn't be able to explain or even understand why his clan couldn't carry its share of the load, it was... just the way things were, don't think about it too much. Vegeta would be dealing with the mysterious swept-under-rug disappearance of many people he'd known all his life, whom he still remembered, but... don't think about it too much. He won't talk about it, can't talk about it, and his pride eventually leads him to increasingly think of himself as not answerable to Berra, who keeps pestering him over issues that he shouldn't think about it too much. When even Berra himself knows this is just how things are, there are over nine thousand Gokun sorcerors and only two Vegetan sorcerors, his wife and his cousin-in-law. Don't think about it too much.

And yet, they're tense, they're stressed. It's like what's happened to Jaron; having thoughts persistently scrubbed from your mind by magic whenever they naturally arise leaves emotional distress even if you can't put your finger on it.

And all this tension could easily find expression through any, ANY channel the Lords weren't magically blocked from thinking about, including dark or irrational suspicions. Suspicions or latent resentment, negative feelings that Berra would never have found himself dwelling on so much if he didn't already have some other reason to be angry at Vegeta, angry at the world, one that he couldn't really understand or admit even to himself, and to which Vegeta could never admit or apologize for.

@PoptartProdigy ... did the Sundering take place before or after the massacre of the Vegetan sorcerers, and how much before or after? Or does Kakara know?
 
Simon_Jester said:
this could have all boiled over in the wake of the enormous stresses that both Berra and Vegeta must have faced as newly ascended Lords
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And new fathers!

Because I've always wondered how the thread has persistently let that little inefficiency go without challenge for the two years this quest has been running...
Simon_Jester said:
@PoptartProdigy ... did the Sundering take place before or after the massacre of the Vegetan sorcerers, and how much before or after? Or does Kakara know?
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Understandably, Kakara doesn't think about it too much. More seriously, combining everything she has at any point known, it's a little hard to pin down, because Dandelor never actually talked dates. It must have been after Jaron's birth, because Dandeer was Lady, not wife-of-the-Scion. It presumably wasn't that much after, because the Sundering is widely acknowledged as the turning point for Vegeta's mental health, and Massacre!Dandeer lacked the certain reflexive cringe that Current!Dandeer possesses. Thus, if we accept those premises, the massacre occurred presumably between the time Jaffur was born (roughly half a year prior to Kakara) and between the time Kakara turned three years old (the Sundering having occurred within a month of that).

But more exactly, Kakara doesn't know, and has never had enough information to know.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
"Don't they just?" he murmurs, scowling. "And...hm, for you it would be two. How many were there when you were two?"

"Eight thousand, eight hundred and thirty-four," you reply, frowning. "Can we please not get distracted? I asked you something."
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Presumably Dandelor didn't pull that number out of a hat. That lines up troublingly well with a Sundering at age three.
 
Akiri said:
Presumably Dandelor didn't pull that number out of a hat. That lines up troublingly well with a Sundering at age three.
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Not a hat, no. Quite the other end of his body. ;)

By which I mean he said it off-hand, and wasn't thinking too hard. He doesn't actually remember how old Kakara currently is when asked, half the time. Outside of his immediate area of specialty, Dandelor is not a reliable source.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Not a hat, no. Quite the other end of his body. ;)

By which I mean he said it off-hand, and wasn't thinking too hard. He doesn't actually remember how old Kakara currently is when asked, half the time. Outside of his immediate area of specialty, Dandelor is not a reliable source.
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I mean, we shouldn't just assume it happened between Kakara's second and third birthdays on the strength

But Kakara knows there were X Vegetan sorcerors at one point in time, and two at another point not long after. Even without the spell breaking, she knew that, she just didn't think about it.

It shouldn't be hard, post-Sealing, to at least nail this down in the timeline as happening months before, a few weeks before, or shortly after, the Sundering.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Because I've always wondered how the thread has persistently let that little inefficiency go without challenge for the two years this quest has been running...
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To clarify, is the inefficiency in question the fact that new Lords/Ladies must adapt to parenthood & rulership simultaneously? Or are you alluding to something else that I, at least, am missing?
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Recent information about Dandeer really throws that whole sudden-out-of-nowhere fight and resulting hatred for each other in a new light, doesn't it? It might be that all of Dandeer's problems are ones she's made herself.
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Modus_Tollens said:
Hell, I have to wonder if even some of her own mental problems are caused by her own magics. If you erect and reinforce false memories, mental blocks, seemings... at some point even you might be operating on broken views of the world. She might have always been a monster, but not necessarily the same monster.
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It's possible.
We've known that use of psychoactive drugs IRL are a stressor for triggering mental illness; shit like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.
Using magic to.....touch up a person's mental state might well have the same effect, especially in the absence of any followup treatment.

Might even account for why so many old-style Saiyans were so....homicidally psychotic; if they got nudged by other Saiyans with ki or magic powers, some might never regain stability unaided.
PoptartProdigy said:
And new fathers!
Because I've always wondered how the thread has persistently let that little inefficiency go without challenge for the two years this quest has been running...
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The Saiyans are characterized more as African-style extended families than the hyper-segregated nuclear families popular in the West, and distance is not really a problem for family to help each other when the average adult is capable of unaided supersonic flight profiles. Young parents get a lot more support/interference under that system, with female relatives sometimes moving in for months at a time to aid the new parents.

Granny Apra is alive and healthy, and was available to help new parents ground themselves.
I'm assuming Kakara's maternal grandmother is still alive and kicking somewhere as well, even assuming that her mother is an only child.
V.Vegeta's mother seems to be dead, but Dandeer had a mother of her own.
 
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Alright!

Vote Tally : Dragon Ball: After the End - Sci-Fi | Page 1138 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 28433-28501]
##### NetTally 1.9.8

[x] Take these last moments to do something before proceeding to the plan as established.
-[x] "Wait, where's Jaron?"
No. of Votes: 17
redzonejoe
Andres110
Aranfan
Bommelom
CaesriusPolybius
chryssalideater
Deathbybunnies
Frvborg
Grigori
KaintukeeBob
Karnax626
LeMat
Simon_Jester
SurpriseMe
thamuzz
veekie
Zero4Ever

[X] Take these last moments to do something before proceeding to the plan as established.
-[X] Get a feel for Jaffur's present state of mind.
-[X] "Wait, where's Jaron?"
No. of Votes: 14
gamer50018
Bakkasama
Blonddude42
Cadis
CaesriusPolybius
Frvborg
Ilamatecuhtli
KaintukeeBob
KnightDisciple
LucidityWaver
Ridiculously Average Guy
Simon_Jester
thamuzz
WadeSwiftly

[X] Take these last moments to do something before proceeding to the plan as established.
-[X] Get a feel for Jaffur's present state of mind.
-[X] "Wait, where's Jaron?"
-[x] Start forming the Genki Dama. Just do passive drawing and contacting those within the Senzu's wards for now.
No. of Votes: 7
Bakkasama
Bommelom
Cariyaga
Gore17
LucidityWaver
Pittauro
spiritualatheist

[x] Proceed directly to the plan as established. Confront your father with the truth of Jaffur's situation, and secure your father's cooperation in removing Dandeer. Following that, bring him to Dandeer and use your assembled might, along with the loss of your father's support, to coerce her into standing down and accepting her arrest. If your father cannot be convinced, the plan becomes a coup, with you taking advantage of the chance of getting your father alone to incapacitate and arrest him before proceeding to Dandeer and doing the same to her, skipping negotiations. If he can be convinced but Dandeer cannot, you put her down by whatever means prove necessary.
No. of Votes: 5
fictionfan
ElleonXan
SurpriseMe
Tarantio
Unearthly Sight

[X] Use a Multiform
- [X] Keep one with Jaron and Jaffur
-- [X] Get a feel for Jaffur's present state of mind.
-- [X] "Wait, where's Jaron?"
- [X] Have one clone track down Fren in order to prepare to get the truth out
- [X] Have one clone meet up with Yammer and grandma in order to prepare for a worst case scenario
- [X] Go to dad and finally have it out with him.
No. of Votes: 1
Tylonius

[x] Take these last moments to do something before proceeding to the plan as established.
-[x] Get a feel for Jaffur's present state of mind.
-[x] "Wait, where's Jaron?"
-[x] Contact Jii-chan through vision. Ask for any last minute advice. If he doesn't have any, let's not waste the visit and ask for any information/tip about lost techniques he might want to share, or a way to cope with feeling everything's death through ki sense. Or why he and all the z-fighters can't/don't contact the living through telepathy like they did in the past.
-[x] Start forming the Genki Dama. Just do passive drawing and contacting those within the Senzu's wards for now.
No. of Votes: 1
Pittauro

Total No. of Voters: 35

We are closed! Your winner:

[x] Take these last moments to do something before proceeding to the plan as established.
-[x] "Wait, where's Jaron?"
Wiadi said:
To clarify, is the inefficiency in question the fact that new Lords/Ladies must adapt to parenthood & rulership simultaneously? Or are you alluding to something else that I, at least, am missing?
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I am referring to that problem, yes.
uju32 said:
The Saiyans are characterized more as African-style extended families than the hyper-segregated nuclear families popular in the West, and distance is not really a problem for family to help each other when the average adult is capable of unaided supersonic flight profiles. Young parents get a lot more support/interference under that system, with female relatives sometimes moving in for months at a time to aid the new parents.

Granny Apra is alive and healthy, and was available to help new parents ground themselves.
I'm assuming Kakara's maternal grandmother is still alive and kicking somewhere as well, even assuming that her mother is an only child.
V.Vegeta's mother seems to be dead, but Dandeer had a mother of her own.
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In general, this is true! Clan structures have their flaws -- all societal structures do -- but their strength is in providing support to family members. Especially in Exile culture, when there's a social position specifically for, "Help the new Lord/Lady when he/she needs it," that means new Lords have a lot of resources on which to call-

-in general. There are a couple factors meaning that Lords and Ladies in general, and Berra and Vegeta in particular, aren't and weren't fully able to leverage these resources. First off: raising Scions has always been a matter for Lords and Ladies in particular. Matriarchs and Patriarchs are expected to assist, but only if their replacement is well and truly in over their heads. They're supposed to butt out of it once things are functional. Functional is good, but it doesn't mean, "stress-free." Outside of the Matriarchs and Patriarchs, people are meant to stay out of the matter insofar as it's possible.

Then we come to the reason why Berra and Vegeta in particular had issues. First of all: Kakara was very much herself, and it became swiftly apparent that she wasn't quite like other saiyan kids. Other kids are thrashing about from day one, trying to hit things. Kakara, on the other hand, cried at loud noises. It was early days yet, but this started the trend of scorn we witnessed during the early days of the quest, particularly when contrasted against Jaffur's far more normal behavior. Second of all: Vegeta was so fanatically determined to give Yammar no part of Jaffur's raising that Yammar barely ever saw his grandson.

Add in to all of this the fact that, support or no, a new child is still an inherently stressful thing even for veteran parents, and you have quite a bit of stress laying on those two men.
 
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