- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
...wait, really? I thought it was just a fan-theory that I thought about and decided made sense! Your omake being one case of such, actually.
Dragon Ball: After the End
...wait, really? I thought it was just a fan-theory that I thought about and decided made sense! Your omake being one case of such, actually.
- Location
- Australia
Yes, really. You should be proud to have correctly worked out the mechanics of such a core but never explicitly stated part of Dragon Ball with nothing but your own intellect and observations. Congratulations.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
- Location
- Australia
I'm not, it's genuine praise....I don't think you're being sarcastic...
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Thank you. That's very sweet.
But yeah, I'd seen fans such as yourself discussing it, but that particular word of god had slipped me by. So...not so much that I worked it all out myself so much as I traced it back to real-life facts I already knew and articulated the connections. Much as I'd like to take all the credit.
- Location
- Australia
I need some more help understanding this quote. As I understand it, if a master of Goku Style with Exceptional Kamehameha went up against a non-style using opponent who had Legendary Kamehameha, two ranks be cancelled out so the opponent would effectively only have Exceptional Kamehameha. Is this correct?
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It is correct if the Stylist has been using the Goku style previously. Not for the whole fight, but for long enough to actually be recognizably using the form. If they've been in Vegeta style for the whole fight and switch to Goku for the final blast, they're just firing a Kamehameha. Styles are a matter of unifying disparate techniques into a cohesive whole, and the Kamehameha is a finishing move in that style; its use involves very particular interactions with the rest of the style's movesets, and thus the benefit gained from it is gained by using it in concert with the rest of it. In fluff terms, you fire it at precisely the right moment to take your opponent off-guard, having driven open their guard with your attacks and then taking the moment to drive home a finishing strike. This is something that doesn't work with another style because at levels of mastery that kind of timing is really finicky, and different techniques not only function differently but do different things.
In mechanical terms, you get bonuses on the opposed roll that equate to what two skill ranks give you in terms of roll bonuses. Your opponent isn't penalized; you're boosted. The boost equates to two skill ranks, at master level, but isn't actually boosting your skill. The distinction is important because Elite+ skill ranks come with bonus effects beyond, "your boost gets bigger," to represent that they are truly transcendent forms of mastery over the covered skill. Think, "I am a diligent and intelligent scientist who will do research, some groundbreaking, and contribute to the field and academics in an exceptional but ultimately within-overall-expectations way," versus, "I am Nikola Tesla." Or, another way, "on the impressive end of the peak of the bell curve," versus, "hanging off the right edge of the graph." There is also the fact that a Legendary Kamehameha user who is also a Master Goku stylist needs to have somewhere further up to go.
Are you taking about the Spirit Bomb or the
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While I love the idea of Kakara the Good making her signature move just about the most evil thing in the setting, Spirit Bomb and derivatives are probably more feasible.
I don't think it has to do with Ginyu being worse at bringing out power than Goku, since Goku noted he couldn't properly use Ginyu's power/body too and could barely sense ki in it, so either this is just because they were just adjusting (unlikely, because then Ginyu would have expected it), because the difference between Ginyu's body and Goku's body was very big (possible) or because they use very different methods of drawing out their power and their bodies aren't suited for the other's method because it doesn't have any "muscle memory" with it.
Wait, when did Roshi block someone's ki?
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- Location
- Australia
The Spirit Bomb is only harmless to those pure of heart. Throw it at a saintly child who carries only the smallest, barest shred of evil in them and they'll blow up as easy as anyone else. Furthermore, you need to be pure of heart to form the Spirit Bomb and Kakara isn't, at least to my knowledge.
When he was fighting that wolfman in the World Martial Arts Tournament.
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The Spirit Bomb isn't harmless to everyone but those with the purest of pure hearts, its harmless to everyone except evil people. Krillin was able to touch it just fine in the fight against Vegeta, after all, and he couldn't ride the Flying Nimbus, and so was Gohan, who shouldn't be any more or less evil than Kakara. Heck, as Krillin could even form a spirit bomb when he got the ki from Goku, it seems that you just need to be a good person who's willing to risk your life to save/help others to use it, not meet some ridiculous purity standards.
Actually, that wasn't Ki Blocking, it was a pressure point, and it didn't just prevent Wolfman from accessing his ki, but completely prevented him from moving. I don't see why anyone shouldn't be able to learn that (though Roshi did have over a century to learn how to find people's pressure points), but it'd presumeably be a lot harder to use against a peer opponent who's actually on their guard, given that Roshi never tried it against Goku or Tenshinhan. Honestly, I think we might actually be underestimating how hard it is to Ki Block in combat too, given that Sensei only managed to use it on us in what was essentially a surprise attack, because it'd probably require a lot of concentration that's easily broken by an enemy combatant.
- Location
- Australia
You don't need a pure heart to throw the Spirit Bomb, but you do need a pure heart to form it and to not get damaged by it. I'm pretty sure Kakara has some evil in her, even if only a tiny amount. The odds of her being completely pure are low.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I don't recall that being ever mentioned in the series though.
- Location
- Australia
On the part about purity being a requirement to form it, I remember that someone said it at some point but I can't remember who or when specifically. Krillin wasn't pure of heart so it's rather obvious that you don't need to be pure to throw it. When Goku was telling Gohan to bounce it back, his words were "So long as you don't have any evil in you, you'll be ok."
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
I think it's just that some bodies simply work the best in certain ways. Goku has been training his body for a while, and is experienced in getting the best use out of it. Ginyu isn't, and neither is Goku for Ginyu's body.
I'd like to point to the latest point episode for this where they confirm that Black is Zamasu in Goku's body. Black explicitly says that fighting Goku and copying his fighting style made him stronger.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
...
I prefer Evil Goku forged from the dragonballs rather then Zamasu Mk3!
I prefer Evil Goku forged from the dragonballs rather then Zamasu Mk3!
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Basically Zamasu really liked Goku's body, and used his super dragonballs to steal it. Then he killed the Goku with Zamasu's body. Though they actually met I don't know, when Future Goku died naturally with post frieza power levels and Future Zamasu was in another universe.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Yes, I know.
I just like the idea of Black being his own thing, created with the dragonballs rather then another Iteration of Zamasu. Them being 'partners and comrades' seemed more interesting then simply working together because they are the same person. Though for all we know Black Zamasu could be from another timeline altogether
I just like the idea of Black being his own thing, created with the dragonballs rather then another Iteration of Zamasu. Them being 'partners and comrades' seemed more interesting then simply working together because they are the same person. Though for all we know Black Zamasu could be from another timeline altogether
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
So in this case the cap of 15Mil is based on full utilization, rather than just raw power? And a pre-earth saiyan wouldn't be able to get nearly as much out of training and would have a much lower (effective) cap?
Makes sense.
- Location
- Australia
So I just finished watching the One Minute Melee between Hulk and Broly. Aside from reminding me about the single redeeming quality of the Broly movie (the pants-shittingly terrifying ruthlessness of the titular character when he's fighting), it's also reminded me of a similarly distinct fighting style in DBZ.
Twin Android Style: This style represents the fighting abilities programmed into Androids 17 and 18 for the sole purpose of killing Son Goku. This style places an extreme reliance on closely coordinating with another user of the style. The style emphasises disrupting the enemy's momentum and needs high efficiency of ki and stamina usage to maintain the constant pressure required. A user's duelling ability is adequate in case they're temporarily cut off from their partner and while the style uses ki techniques often, it sticks exclusively to the basics. The style does very well against Goku Style, unsurprisingly, and rather poorly against Trunks Style, also unsurprisingly. Involved techniques: Hand-to-Hand [Team Fighting, Twin Android partner required, Extreme], Ki Control, Ki Projection [Basic Attacks]. Penalised techniques: Hand-to-Hand [Crowd Fighting], Ki Projection [All save Basic Attacks, cripplingly so], Ki Sense.
@PoptartProdigy
Considering the Power Pole is indestructible in the absolute meaning of the word, is it possible that it's still floating around somewhere out there in space?
According to the OP, the threat of Goku and Vegeta prevented many galactic villains from threatening Earth which implies that both they and Earth were known in the galactic community. That said, does the galactic community know or at least have rumours of a few Earthlings or Saiyans making it out alive?
If it's not too much to ask, do you know anything about planet Tech-Tech and its inhabitants as they were in canon? Information is rather scarce on that front.
Twin Android Style: This style represents the fighting abilities programmed into Androids 17 and 18 for the sole purpose of killing Son Goku. This style places an extreme reliance on closely coordinating with another user of the style. The style emphasises disrupting the enemy's momentum and needs high efficiency of ki and stamina usage to maintain the constant pressure required. A user's duelling ability is adequate in case they're temporarily cut off from their partner and while the style uses ki techniques often, it sticks exclusively to the basics. The style does very well against Goku Style, unsurprisingly, and rather poorly against Trunks Style, also unsurprisingly. Involved techniques: Hand-to-Hand [Team Fighting, Twin Android partner required, Extreme], Ki Control, Ki Projection [Basic Attacks]. Penalised techniques: Hand-to-Hand [Crowd Fighting], Ki Projection [All save Basic Attacks, cripplingly so], Ki Sense.
@PoptartProdigy
Considering the Power Pole is indestructible in the absolute meaning of the word, is it possible that it's still floating around somewhere out there in space?
According to the OP, the threat of Goku and Vegeta prevented many galactic villains from threatening Earth which implies that both they and Earth were known in the galactic community. That said, does the galactic community know or at least have rumours of a few Earthlings or Saiyans making it out alive?
If it's not too much to ask, do you know anything about planet Tech-Tech and its inhabitants as they were in canon? Information is rather scarce on that front.
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Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
We will likely run into it at the worst possible time, when we are on the grasp of victory and about to deliver the final bl
*CLANG!*
WHAT THE F*** WAS THAT?
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
You might want to rephrase this part. As it is, it sounds like the style is very efficient in using ki and stamina when the advantage of the androids was that they didn't get tired or ran out of ki so they didn't need to be efficient and could fight at 100% for the entire fight if they so wished.