- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Poptart did say graditions of 20, so they could work with 40, or 60 for limited periods of time.
Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Australia
Ok, that sounds a lot better. Thanks. Still, x20 being practically nothing is scary. x40 might end up with some strain but that's over the cap of a Super Saiyan.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Remember, the ones who know that are base Saiyans, and thus would instead hit 600 million (30 mil x 20 = 30 mil x 10 x 2; 30 mil x 10 = 300 mil; 300 mil x 2 = 600 mil. Still curb-stompable, at least individually. And for the one at 2.8 billion...I'm actually confused there. That would have the Oozaru at 140,000,000. That's the base power cap of a standard Super Saiyan as an Oozaru, and none of those have existed since the Clan system was formalized -- they get trained to mastery literally immediately. Plus, those aren't the ones you need to watch anyway. But, if somebody rebelled by going Super Saiyan, trained their base to 70 mil, turned Oozaru, and used the Kaio-Ken...their effective strength would still only be 1.4 billion, which a Super Saiyan 2 would effortlessly evade and a FPSSJ could get around as well if they knew the Kaio-Ken (that's your Dad's job at the moment, by the way. In the system of Lords, he is the designated Oozaru Suppression System). That said, if a fight that bad breaks out, the Masquerade has fallen, an Oozaru is splashing its presence all over the neighboring star clusters, and every Super Saiyan on Garenhuld is straining to reach SSJ2 anyway, because their cover is blown.
So yeah. Oozarus with Kaio-Ken training? Carefully watched.
- Location
- Australia
Misread some stuff.
From what I've gathered reading this thread, isn't using Kaioken and Super Saiyan at the same time basically murder on the body?
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
How would it compare to Kakara's Golden Oozaru?
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
- Location
- Ontario
I really want to learn Kaioken now.
Let's see if we can go Golden Oozaru Kaioken x20! Nothing can go wrong!
So how many people would freak out if we learn the Kaioken?
Let's see if we can go Golden Oozaru Kaioken x20! Nothing can go wrong!
So how many people would freak out if we learn the Kaioken?
Yes, but. A 'mere' 10% greater power level is generally considered sufficient to defeat an opponent if it's kept constantly. Go to three or four times you're opponents level, and go all out, and they tend to be dead within seconds.
...Then you stay in the hospital for months, even with Senzu Beans helping, because you just used SSJ and Kaioken at the same time.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Jaffur went to about 2 billion, right? And that was enough to destroy Berra at full force, if he was really trying, I don't doubt that he could have killed him, thus, if Berra could use Kaio-Ken while in his mastered SS form, even a *2 would be enough to take out this hypothetical monster.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If done very carefully, by somebody who has absolutely mastered the transformation, it can work. Dad has trained with excruciating caution, and can safely take the Kaio-Ken to x2 as a Super Saiyan (2.25 Billion). He's only trained that while suppressing his SSJ energy so as not to snap the wards, though, and thus knows that in reality it'll be a bigger strain. He is prepared to accept the consequences.
Golden Oozaru max power: 1.5 billion, perfectly sustainably. So the theoretical rebel would outstrip Kakara by a wide margin as she currently stands at her strongest.
Now you're just teasing them.
For now, keep it down; here, at least. Your own thread is your business. They don't know it IC, and it's a fairly big spoiler about the cosmology. Sorry, folks!I really want to learn Kaioken now.
Let's see if we can go Golden Oozaru Kaioken x20! Nothing can go wrong!
So how many people would freak out if we learn the Kaioken?
Nobody would care. You're a Scion, you're not going to rebel.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Sounds like we should invest in Kaio-Ken. Gold Oozaru with Kaio-Ken would probably be less wrecked than SSJ with Kaio-Ken.
Also, I am confused by this "Effective Power Level" thing.
- Location
- Australia
Senzu beans "helping"? Don't they heal any and all wounds instantly? The only time it didn't work was with Goku when he had his heart virus and that was because the virus was continuously attacking him.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I note on the character sheet that your speed is half what your power level would suggest as an Oozaru, and your general physicality is half again.
- Location
- Australia
@Nathaniel Wolff, please keep your god damn spoilers out of this thread. Now I'm going to have that knowledge for as long as the thread lasts whether I want to or not.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I will second this.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Right, but that puts us at what effective PL?
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy, if the Masquerade breaks, why would all the Super Saiyans try reaching for Super Saiyan 2? Aren't there enough righteous Saiyans to turn someone into a Saiyan God?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Still the listed power level (1.5 billion at your personal strongest) but a really wonky one that demonstrates that power levels aren't absolutes.
Ran the numbers on the "theoretical" Golden Oozaru Kaioken x20 and I want it!
Speed is at 15 Billion
Strength and Durability is at 45 Billion
If I did not get this wrong (Hope I didn't.) we should so get this! I feel like a little kid now.
Bear in mind, the SSJ boost in the mix would be quite the monkey wrench. It would be more difficult to multiply, and definitely keep you away from a x20.
They do have enough, but at some point over the centuries the knowledge of the ritual got lost in the shuffle. This is the Dark Ages for these Exiles, remember. Knowledge getting lost everywhere.
- Location
- USA
Wait so Kaioken multiplies power levels in this quest but Super Saiyan is just an added reserve? And Oozaru can handle the strain much easier than our base form (Which makes a lot of sense with the far stronger body)? So Great Golden Ape + Kaioken is the optimal path to power?
With the mechanics here SSJ seems far less useful the the Kaioken + Oozaru combo aside from raising the base power level cap.
Too bad we can't train it since at all since it would blow our cover. We're pushing the limit on the wards as it is.
With the mechanics here SSJ seems far less useful the the Kaioken + Oozaru combo aside from raising the base power level cap.
Ran the numbers on the "theoretical" Golden Oozaru Kaioken x20 and I want it!
Speed is at 15 Billion
Strength and Durability is at 45 Billion
If I did not get this wrong (Hope I didn't.) we should so get this! I feel like a little kid now.
Too bad we can't train it since at all since it would blow our cover. We're pushing the limit on the wards as it is.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Not necessarily. Kaio-Ken gets harder the more power you're working with, and Golden Oozaru still has the SSJ boost in the mix, mucking things up. Beyond that, remember that Oozaru in this case comes with hefty speed penalties. Kaio-Ken is something you can use, but trust that I'm balancing the system to account for it and not make it broken.
- Location
- Australia
They remembered that Vegeta slaughtered a Namekian village once but not the god ritual? I think the only Z Figher-related person to not see it was Mr. Satan.
- Location
- USA
While the boost in GGA form with Kaioken we might not be as fast as a SSJ using Kaioken with a x20 boost but it would still be much faster than just using SSJ (who wouldn't be able to handle the Kaioken boost as easily anyway). Remember Goku was surprised at how fast Vegeta was in Oozaru form despite the increase in mass. Vegeta DID catch him after all. Giant monkey form is not slow.
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- Location
- Australia
Kaioken needs to be sustainable at x10 when doing Golden Ape just to match Kaioken x20 Great Ape.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
They know it exists, but none of the Z Fighters thought to write it down. Just an oversight that bit back hard when everybody who knew the mechanics of it died on the day of the Enemy coming to Earth.
Not slow, no, but still only half its nominal power level. I'm trying to balance things, and making it slower while not being useless is a part of that. Going GGA with Kaio-Ken shouldn't be an "I win" button -- as a general rule, nothing should, or we're playing a boring quest.
And that will be possible. But very difficult.
Now, everybody, I appreciate the interest, but I'm spending more time answering questions than I am working on the updates. I'll need to step back from the Q&A's for a little bit.