Voting is open
Thats not a no... hrmm
That is a "we have no idea." Which is the honest answer. The problem is that even if Dazarel were locked inside our head, it would be very hard if not impossible for us to get answers to that question which we could trust.

I mean, look at it from Dazarel's point of view. You're the sealed monstrosity with incredible psychic mind powers. The young woman who's acting as seal to keep you bodiless and imprisoned asks you "can you teach me psychic powers through mental contact with me?"

Of course you're going to answer "yes, child, I can, just open up this seal a little and let me..." What other possible answer could you sanely give in that situation?

I won't vote for any plan that doesn't have a dragon action. Since we didn't stuff him in our head we've gotta actively spend time with him to reform him, and we will. Kakara needs to take responsibility for her actions and the OPSEC hole that is Dazarel. Making nice with him is the best way to do that, since I doubt he'll care otherwise if we kill him.
I'm not at all confident that we would have been able to reform him 'for free' in terms of actions expended in any case.

If I were running the quest, I wouldn't create a situation where you can get a 'free' powerful ally without spending actions to earn him. Either I'd make the players actively invest actions to reform their potential dragon ally, or I'd have dealing with the dragon be a distraction that reduced the available action budget for other activities, because Kakara has trouble achieving the same level of focus and precisely scheduled activity with a dragon nattering at her in her head all the time. Which would, in effect, be equivalent to locking in "deal with your head-dragon" as a mandatory action choice every year.

I don't know where people got the idea that "head-dragon" was a way to make Poptart give us something for nothing. Why would Poptart give us something for nothing? They're Poptart.
 
I don't know where people got the idea that "head-dragon" was a way to make Poptart give us something for nothing. Why would Poptart give us something for nothing? They're Poptart.

That would depend entirely on what the "something" is. I'm entirely willing to believe they'd give us "problems that take actions to deal with" for nothing.
 
I don't see why he should have priority our other friends. You know the people we actually like.

I guess we might use him as a mind delve test subject.
We automatically spend enough time with our friends to maintain social links - spending actions on them means going above and beyond a healthy enough social life to remain a Dependable or Strong Ally. Teaching/training our friends almost certainly counts as a social-y action with all of them, so we aren't going to be lacking time spent with them, so I'm not really looking to spend even more actions on them. Maybe we can invite them along to Drama Club? (Is Drama Club even still going to be viable, given our new status as The Most Famous Girl In The World?)

We should really spend an action on Dazzy though, regardless of the [CHIBI] vote - even if he's talking to other Saiyans, it's important to take an active role in guiding his development, since I doubt the other Exiles are likely to be as forgiving as we are - at least at first.
 
Again, I very much want us to remember that just because we forced Dazarel into a cute little body, he did NOT become an innocent little baby dragon.

I support the plan of socializing Dazarel over time and reforming him in this way, but we really should be balancing that against the danger that in the here and now, his un-reformed self will keep trying to find ways to screw us over.
 
@PoptartProdigy : I really don't see how we could have beaten the dragon without the Genki Dama. Even the fact that all the royals were GO is thanks to us. How would they have managed without GO?
Who said anything about beating him without golden oozaru?
If I had to guess, it would have ended up being a much harder won victory with actual deaths and crippling injuries having been involved. With probably at least one of the other golden ozaru being counted amongst the deceased, and possibly with Kakara herself crippled in some way. And possibly with Kakara having to compromise on her no killing rule just because there wouldn't have been any other way to really make Dazreal into a non threat.

Though peaking of crippling, anyone else wonder how long it is going to take Kakara to remember that she lost her tail? Cause I know I literally forgot until i was thinking about this quest and the term 'crippling' in the same sentence.
I rolled out the rest of the combat, assuming no outside intervention, as a thought exercise. Apra killed herself with overdriven, Kaio-Ken Shin Kikohos. This succeeded in weakening Dazarel to the point that Yammar was able to hold the dragon in place. You and Berra then battered Dazarel into the ground, and you then would have had the chance to convince your Dad not to execute the dragon. Not much of a chance, at that point, but a chance. If you wanted it.
Okay, clearly true, but also clearly not what I meant.

Obviously Poptart will not hesitate to heap all manner of crises and disasters on our heads, free of charge.
I am a kind and generous QM. :D
 
My apologies, but RL issues are restricting my computer access. So there will be long silences for the next couple days, I think.
No, there's an easy way to escalate.
Which does a lot for demonstrating dominance, sure, but zero for reform efforts, which was the whole point of leaving him alive.

I don't expect Dazarael to change overnight. But it is demonstrable fact that if you treat prisoners with dignity, you get better results.
The whole stripsearch maximum paranoia mindset may be politically popular with some civilians, and may feel good, but doesn't actually produce the results one would hope for.

Furthermore, as a motivator, abstract explanation of future benefits of good behavior never work as well as actual experience of rewards.
And people will go to greater lengths to avoid losing stuff they already have than to get new stuff; that's the whole explanation behind risk aversion.
Of course, I'm assuming Dazarael has roughly human/saiyan psychology.
Juvenile detention centers are also trying to reform possibly useful members of society.
Juvienile detention as implemented in most countries has a disproportionately poor rate of success, because it's aimed at deterrence, punishment and confinement, not reform. Norway, which I was pointing out, doesn't actually have a juvenile justice system. Age of criminal responsibility is 15, and they tend to put young offenders into social welfare programs, not prison.

This is of a piece with much of their criminal justice system, and they have some of the lowest recidivism rates in the world.
It works with them. I see no reason for it not to work with him.
At worst, Berra can have one saiyan keeping an eye on him from a distance but taking no actions otherwise as long as no one is in danger.

And you play on his pride, of which he has a lot.
The strongest chains are invisible.
Do you have any strong reason to believe that at present he values his chibi-fied life highly enough to care?
YES.
The guy backed down when we yelled in his face.

No evidence one way or the other, and until we can do a Mind Delve on him, I don't want to take chances.
I disagree.
There is sufficient evidence that if he knew, say, about the conspiracy, he would have attempted to use it to distract us to prevent the Sealing.

Yes, in the short term it cuts that down.
Also in the mediumterm. And the longterm. We do not have infinite time to work with.
And events seem to be accelerating.
 
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Which does a lot for demonstrating dominance, sure, but zero for reform efforts, which was the whole point of leaving him alive.

I don't expect Dazarael to change overnight. But it is demonstrable fact that if you treat prisoners with dignity, you get better results.
The whole stripsearch maximum paranoia mindset may be politically popular with some civilians, and may feel good, but doesn't actually produce the results one would hope for.

Furthermore, as a motivator, abstract explanation of future benefits of good behavior never work as well as actual experience of rewards.
And people will go to greater lengths to avoid losing stuff they already have than to get new stuff; that's the whole explanation behind risk aversion.
Of course, I'm assuming Dazarael has roughly human/saiyan psychology.
But we aren't discussing strip-searching him or treating him in a humiliating fashion, so "treating him with dignity" doesn't come into it. In fact, from his perspective, that ship probably sailed when he went from being the size of a mountain to the size of a housecat.

Similarly, he won't be "experiencing" any rewards if we start him off with looser restrictions, because all 3 options are still a monumental step down from what he had before. In fact, the only way he might feasibly ever perceive it as a reward to be cherished is if he doesn't originally have it. Meanwhile, risk aversion would be a great deal more obvious if we can immediately say he doesn't get to accompany us on his next scheduled excursion, as that's on a much smaller scale than going from "can talk to other people without us" to "can't talk to other people without us".

Overall, you seem to be advocating for an option that makes it harder for us to handle/reform him because you don't want to be mean to him (seriously, comparing it to deliberate humiliation?) when he has in no way earned any trust or leniency yet. He's a proud destroyer of worlds, and just tried to kill everyone on Garenhuld - laying down the law is also in some ways establishing dominance, in that we already look crushingly naive for going this route and have to make up for lost ground.
 
[X][CHIBI] He can be out in front of saiyans, and reveal himself only to humans you personally approve. Garenhulders are easy to convince about new things being old, but you don't want to have to en masse, and if the scouts pick up a TV broadcast where the insolent lizard showed his face, and broadcast it to the wrong person...

Seems a good starting point to me tbh. Can't be in front of humans en masse because of blabbing the whole Saiyan thing, but beyond that he's basically harmless.

Plus I honestly think he'll be easier to deal with with a broader interaction base than one more tightly managed by Kakara. This way the cool old Gokun granny Sorceror can keep flicking him on the nose :p
 
Just remember everyone, the way the "harsh option" is worded now, we're not just vetting who he has or doesn't have permission to talk to, we're vetting every conversation he has. That's a lot more work than I want to put on our already overworked saiyan scion.

What's more, the way that it's written makes me think said option might not be in our best interests if we truly are trying to break him of his " might makes right" mindset. I mean: his ability to talk to people exists "at our sufferance"? Sure, best way to start would definitely be to imply: "yeah, I beat you so now I have control over who, when, and where you can even talk to people." I mean, sure, that's not what we would actually be saying, but I'm not sure that it isn't what Daz would infer from us cracking down on him from the get-go.

To be honest, I'd be much more willing to vote for a harsh crack down on Daz's socialization if WE weren't the ones doing it.
 
Just remember everyone, the way the "harsh option" is worded now, we're not just vetting who he has or doesn't have permission to talk to, we're vetting every conversation he has. That's a lot more work than I want to put on our already overworked saiyan scion.

What's more, the way that it's written makes me think said option might not be in our best interests if we truly are trying to break him of his " might makes right" mindset. I mean: his ability to talk to people exists "at our sufferance"? Sure, best way to start would definitely be to imply: "yeah, I beat you so now I have control over who, when, and where you can even talk to people." I mean, sure, that's not what we would actually be saying, but I'm not sure that it isn't what Daz would infer from us cracking down on him from the get-go.

To be honest, I'd be much more willing to vote for a harsh crack down on Daz's socialization if WE weren't the ones doing it.
You can write that in. Thanks to approval voting, you can even vote for it in addition to another option without either suffering by it.
 
[X][CHIBI] He can be out in front of saiyans, and reveal himself only to humans you personally approve. Garenhulders are easy to convince about new things being old, but you don't want to have to en masse, and if the scouts pick up a TV broadcast where the insolent lizard showed his face, and broadcast it to the wrong person...
 
Just remember everyone, the way the "harsh option" is worded now, we're not just vetting who he has or doesn't have permission to talk to, we're vetting every conversation he has. That's a lot more work than I want to put on our already overworked saiyan scion.

What's more, the way that it's written makes me think said option might not be in our best interests if we truly are trying to break him of his " might makes right" mindset. I mean: his ability to talk to people exists "at our sufferance"? Sure, best way to start would definitely be to imply: "yeah, I beat you so now I have control over who, when, and where you can even talk to people." I mean, sure, that's not what we would actually be saying, but I'm not sure that it isn't what Daz would infer from us cracking down on him from the get-go.

To be honest, I'd be much more willing to vote for a harsh crack down on Daz's socialization if WE weren't the ones doing it.
Personally, I'd rather she put in effort with him. Mission accomplished.
 
In the long run I, too, want the process of Dazarel's socialization to proceed to completion without our having to work on it very hard.

In the short run, I want to make sure Dazarel has a solid sense of pecking order before he gets a chance to figure out the lay of the political land and spend a week figuring out how to make our life a living hell.
 
Personally, I'd rather she put in effort with him. Mission accomplished.
In the long run I, too, want the process of Dazarel's socialization to proceed to completion without our having to work on it very hard.

Please, can we not do this? Us deciding whether or not to micromanage Dazarel's social calendar is NOT the same as deciding whether or not to put in the effort into redeeming him. We CAN vote to let him talk to saiyans and still work at redeeming him. Likewise, we can also vote to micromanage his socialization and then end up abrogating our responsibility as other things come up and it slips our mind. Deciding what position to play is not the same as deciding how much effort we are willing to put into playing.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind putting in decent effort for this... assuming we are actually putting the effort into utilizing our social abilities to help Daz. But I also believe that we ARE overworking ourself, and ensuring that we are wasting our time supervising every single social interaction in addition to the other million things we have to do next year seems like it would be a bit more than I'm willing to ask of Kakara.

In the short run, I want to make sure Dazarel has a solid sense of pecking order before he gets a chance to figure out the lay of the political land and spend a week figuring out how to make our life a living hell.

Fair enough, though I would move that starting off this relationship by "teaching him the pecking order" would be a huge detriment to our goal of "breaking him of his might makes right mentality."
 
Please, can we not do this? Us deciding whether or not to micromanage Dazarel's social calendar is NOT the same as deciding whether or not to put in the effort into redeeming him. We CAN vote to let him talk to saiyans and still work at redeeming him. Likewise, we can also vote to micromanage his socialization and then end up abrogating our responsibility as other things come up and it slips our mind. Deciding what position to play is not the same as deciding how much effort we are willing to put into playing.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind putting in decent effort for this... assuming we are actually putting the effort into utilizing our social abilities to help Daz. But I also believe that we ARE overworking ourself, and ensuring that we are wasting our time supervising every single social interaction in addition to the other million things we have to do next year seems like it would be a bit more than I'm willing to ask of Kakara.
Sure. But I'm perfectly willing to go with the "She has to put in effort with him" option rather than leaving it to a second vote.
 
Please, can we not do this? Us deciding whether or not to micromanage Dazarel's social calendar is NOT the same as deciding whether or not to put in the effort into redeeming him. We CAN vote to let him talk to saiyans and still work at redeeming him. Likewise, we can also vote to micromanage his socialization and then end up abrogating our responsibility as other things come up and it slips our mind. Deciding what position to play is not the same as deciding how much effort we are willing to put into playing.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind putting in decent effort for this... assuming we are actually putting the effort into utilizing our social abilities to help Daz. But I also believe that we ARE overworking ourself, and ensuring that we are wasting our time supervising every single social interaction in addition to the other million things we have to do next year seems like it would be a bit more than I'm willing to ask of Kakara.
He's not arguing that this is a deciding factor in how much effort we put in this turn, it's a factor in how much effort ends up being needed in the long run - breaking him of his "might makes right mentality" is a good but secondary goal to breaking him of wanting to make trouble or act out, given that "might makes right" currently puts him squarely at the bottom of the food chain.
 
Please, can we not do this? Us deciding whether or not to micromanage Dazarel's social calendar is NOT the same as deciding whether or not to put in the effort into redeeming him. We CAN vote to let him talk to saiyans and still work at redeeming him. Likewise, we can also vote to micromanage his socialization and then end up abrogating our responsibility as other things come up and it slips our mind.
That's not how it works. Kakara, in-character, has the micromanagement authority. Kakara is intensely organized and disciplined. She's not going to forget to do a thing she's resolved to do, not when it's this important.

We the posters may 'forget it,' but the bare fact of giving Kakara micromanagement authority doesn't automatically mean the subject gets forgotten because we the posters aren't constantly weighing in on it.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind putting in decent effort for this... assuming we are actually putting the effort into utilizing our social abilities to help Daz. But I also believe that we ARE overworking ourself, and ensuring that we are wasting our time supervising every single social interaction in addition to the other million things we have to do next year seems like it would be a bit more than I'm willing to ask of Kakara.
The question is, stipulating that Kakara is overworked, we do still have to prioritize Kakara's limited time on the most important tasks. Is convincing Dazarel to be decent one of those tasks? If so, it should be promoted to our attention, and OTHER tasks should be dropped so she can catch her breath.

Fair enough, though I would move that starting off this relationship by "teaching him the pecking order" would be a huge detriment to our goal of "breaking him of his might makes right mentality."
I disagree. The first step to convincing him that might does not make right is to make it clear to him that he has no might anymore- so that if he insists on might making right, he'll lose every time.

Once he has to live life from the point of a being who doesn't have the power to dictate terms to 'lesser beings,' it is far more likely that he will "suddenly" discover concepts such as 'fairness' that he never used to care about when he was strong enough to ignore them.

That's the entire point of chibifying him in the first place, as opposed to just leaving him the size of a mountain.

He's not arguing that this is a deciding factor in how much effort we put in this turn, it's a factor in how much effort ends up being needed in the long run - breaking him of his "might makes right mentality" is a good but secondary goal to breaking him of wanting to make trouble or act out, given that "might makes right" currently puts him squarely at the bottom of the food chain.
Yeah. Basically, we will potentially save ourselves a LOT of trouble by:

1) Prioritizing the idea that getting Dazarel is under control right the hell now, and:

2) Minimizing any harm that Dazarel can do in the immediate future, while he is still unaccustomed to his current situation and likely to be specifically looking for revenge. When he's had a few months to get used to the situation, and to come to value interaction with other beings he would have dismissed as irrelevant monkeys in his earlier life... then we can reward him for compliance with increased freedom of action.

We're on track for (1). (2) is more of a problem, because if he has freedom to talk to any saiyan he wants to, it is quite possible that he'll do something we'll regret.
 
That's not how it works. Kakara, in-character, has the micromanagement authority. Kakara is intensely organized and disciplined. She's not going to forget to do a thing she's resolved to do, not when it's this important.

We the posters may 'forget it,' but the bare fact of giving Kakara micromanagement authority doesn't automatically mean the subject gets forgotten because we the posters aren't constantly weighing in on it.

Ah, you misunderstand me. I'm not saying that we the players would forget to deal with Daz. I'm saying that Kakara might get caught up in everything life has to throw at her and just not have enough time to worry about a mostly defanged threat. Not saying it will happen, just that it might as every year we have had more and more happen, and we (that is to say Kakara) has been busier and busier to the point where I'm actually getting concerned that we're going to hit burn out within the next few years if we don't take steps to lighten our workload. Speaking of which:

The question is, stipulating that Kakara is overworked, we do still have to prioritize Kakara's limited time on the most important tasks. Is convincing Dazarel to be decent one of those tasks? If so, it should be promoted to our attention, and OTHER tasks should be dropped so she can catch her breath.

Once again I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying that spending even quite a bit of time convincing Dazarel isn't a worthy goal or deserving of our time. I'm saying that there is a big difference between "taking the time to help him and letting others do the same" and "literally sitting in on every conversation he has to vet it." I honestly believe that to socialize our pet lizard-with-wings, we're going to need to socialize him with a bunch of different people... the more the better, in my opinion, as multiple different interactions will be a good way to teach him how to deal with people in a variety of situations and social strata. But if we're stuck being there at all of them? I doubt we'll get nearly as much socialization for our dainty dragon. Remember that one of the reasons we didn't just stick him into our head was so that he would be able to communicate on his own, and not have to communicate through us. So to turn that around and say that we have to be there to vet every conversation that he has, well, it seems like a step backwards, to me... a step that would seem to take up a LOT of time, time that we could NOT abrogate our responsibilities of if we are in any way serious about socializing Daz at all. But if others were there to take up the slack, then if it came down to the difference between Dazzie's socialization and not having a nervous breakdown from overwork... well, we wouldn't have to choose.

I disagree. The first step to convincing him that might does not make right is to make it clear to him that he has no might anymore- so that if he insists on might making right, he'll lose every time.

Once he has to live life from the point of a being who doesn't have the power to dictate terms to 'lesser beings,' it is far more likely that he will "suddenly" discover concepts such as 'fairness' that he never used to care about when he was strong enough to ignore them.

That's the entire point of chibifying him in the first place, as opposed to just leaving him the size of a mountain.

And that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I, on the other hand, have a different one.

I see Daz as being a little more immature. To be honest, after what we've seen of him, my mental model of him is somewhere around "eternal petulant edgy teenager". And from that, I see him taking the whole "welcome to Oz Garenhuld, I now own you" message to heart if we start this relationship with a show of dominance. What's more, it actually enforces his "might is right" mindset, as we were mightier than him and it not only allowed us to heap this humiliation on him, but also allowed us to dictate even the minutia of his social calendar... in essence, our power allowed us to gain (almost) complete control over him. And while yes, on one hand having very little power could force him to start empathizing with those who are weak, on the other hand it might also just convince him to do everything he can to regain power so that HE would be the one who would have this level of control.

What's more, once the reinforcement of that mindset happens, it'll be just that much hard to get rid of. Once he equates our victory over him to our control of his current circumstances, he can take a self-righteous, almost perverse pleasure in using that to "prove his point." And from then on, we can tell him all we want that might doesn't equal right, but he can just fall back on the standby of "how can you say that, when literally the only reason you're getting what you want is that you were mightier than me? Can you tell me that if you hadn't beaten me in a fight, I still wouldn't have killed you? Let's face it: the only reason that you have the right to tell me what to do is that you were just stronger than me. I mean, look at your own society: the only reason that your rulers stay in control is that they maintain a monopoly on the super saiyan transformation. If your right to rule doesn't rely on your monopoly of power, then why not let the others of your race attempt to transform?" Okay, that thought kinda got out of hand, but honestly, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that we're going to have a devil of a time trying to convince him that might doesn't make right when our own society hoards all the power in the hands of the nobility. We don't need another difficulty in that regard.

Also, just as another thought: If we are the ones who say who he can and can't talk to, it undermines the ability for others to make meaningful points to help change his mind. He can never be truly sure that people are telling him the truth when they try to convince him that might doesn't make right, because he can never be sure we're not just sending people in to say what we want. It's one thing to say "hey, take a look at our society, and you'll see that the strong don't have to prey on the weak" and it's another to say "hey, the strong don't have to prey on the weak, and I'm going to keep you isolated from the rest of my society and will bring in people to tell you that what I just said is the truth." Even if we give him total freedom after only a week, the thought of "why did she need the week? Was she using this time to tell everyone how to act around me to convince me of her point?" will still be a totally logical thing to go through his head. Because remember, he just lost the ability to casually read peoples' minds, something he took for granted before. He's likely to be VERY paranoid about people lying to him, now that he can't just double check their truthfulness by dropping into their heads.

And I also disagree to your idea of what the "point" of chibi-fying him versus leaving him the same size. I believe it was because he would be much less able to cause any trouble if he wasn't able to physically topple buildings even without ki. In my opinion, we didn't shrink him to teach him a lesson... we shrunk him to make him much easier to handle if he decided to cause trouble.

Or at least, that's how I see it.
 
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Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 1012 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 25289-25438]
##### NetTally 1.9.8

Task: AFTER

[X][AFTER] Lay down some ground rules with Dazarel about what does and does not constitute proper behavior.
No. of Votes: 27

[X][AFTER] Go visit the Misfits. You need to tell your other friends what's going on.
No. of Votes: 18

[X][AFTER] Go to your people. They will want to see you, right now.
No. of Votes: 12

[X][AFTER] Follow up with the people of Garenhuld regarding what just happened.
No. of Votes: 9

[X][AFTER] Visit Sensei. Dad said he checked in, and Sensei was doing alright, but you're still worried.
No. of Votes: 4

[X][AFTER] Write-in: Inform Apra with telepathy that you're worried that Dandeer may have sensed Jaffur donating energy through the Seal, and ask her if she can check up to make sure Jaron/Jaffur are okay. Then, lay down some ground rules with Dazarel about what does and does not constitute proper behavior.
No. of Votes: 4

[X][AFTER] Find an isolated spot and visit Jaffur to update him on what just happened.
No. of Votes: 2

[X][AFTER] Go home to your family and reassure them that you're alright.
No. of Votes: 1


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: CHIBI

[X][CHIBI] He can be out in front of saiyans, and reveal himself only to humans you personally approve. Garenhulders are easy to convince about new things being old, but you don't want to have to en masse, and if the scouts pick up a TV broadcast where the insolent lizard showed his face, and broadcast it to the wrong person...
No. of Votes: 21

[X][CHIBI] He is to be refused all contact with people save on your sufferance. You're not going to refuse to give him any contact -- assuming solitary confinement even works on him like it does on saiyans or humans -- but you're going to personally vet each and every conversation he has.
No. of Votes: 18

[X][CHIBI] He can be out in front of humans. Garenhulders are scared of innovation and the unknown, but for whatever reason they're really easily convinced that new things are in fact old things of which they have simply been previously unaware. You can easily come up with an excuse which they will buy.
No. of Votes: 2

Total No. of Voters: 40

[X][AFTER] Lay down some ground rules with Dazarel about what does and does not constitute proper behavior.
[X][CHIBI] He can be out in front of saiyans, and reveal himself only to humans you personally approve. Garenhulders are easy to convince about new things being old, but you don't want to have to en masse, and if the scouts pick up a TV broadcast where the insolent lizard showed his face, and broadcast it to the wrong person...

Seems definitive, and votes and even discussion have died down. Vote closed.
 
I doubt we are, and frankly Dazarel's social skills are almost certainly terrible since he's a member of a relatively solitary species who tends to eat people rather than talk to them. So with luck, he won't figure it out.

His one ace in the hole is that he may remember secrets read out of our mind. Still worrying about that. Would be happier doing this if we could Mind Delve him to check.
 
And, as pointed out a while ago (by me!) We are far, far more credible than he is.

It'd be like a Roman soldier attacking Jesus, being chastised for it but let go; And then that soldier went around trying to tell everybody that Jesus is eating babies... while everyone knows he was the guy that tried to stab Jesus.

We are literally space monkey Jesus to our people right now.
 
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