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Firstly, she may consider the situation to not be an immediate threat and still consider it a problem. Given that Garenhulder mages think a seal like the one on Dazarel is 'straightforward,' but that the seal on Jaffur is apparently a complicated one only a master sorceress like Dandeer could create... Dandeer may think the seal just needs a tune-up or something.

Or she may notice something after she gets home. Or... we don't know.

But this is legitimately one of the few time-critical problems we have right now, and it's one where prompt action might avert some kind of disaster, albeit perhaps an unlikely disaster. So I think it's reasonable to support trying to do something about it.
Though there might be some evidence that she can't easily check it. She didn't seem to check it when she first saw us practicing ki concentration and thought Jaffur taught us and there was no consecuence of Jaron's flare of sorcery when the scouts attacked the school, even though Berra knows it came from him.
 
Possible. On the other hand, feeling a super-saiyan sized flare of energy that 'smells' like Jaron/Jaffur, or feeling something that overtly opened a big enough breach in the Seal to let said amount of power through, might well have tripped an alarm that would not otherwise be tripped.

Furthermore, it's possible that Dandeer DID run diagnostics of some kind of the Seal, but not diagnostics of the kind that would reveal what is going on.

I'm not saying this IS what happened. I'm saying that the probability of this being an issue is at least relevant to our calculations in terms of "what things do we need to deal with urgently right now." Even if there's only a 5% chance that Dandeer detected Jaffur's power and is going to act on it, that is by far the greatest risk of disaster we presently face, except possibly for the risk of Dazarel somehow acting to throw a monkey wrench into things at some later time if we don't put a boot on his antics.
 
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Impossible to fuck up-"

You Dad coughs meaningfully.

The sorcerer wilts. "Er, sorry sir. Anyway, Scion, it's impossible to mess this up
That feel when, your kids defeating global threats make people think it's okay to expose them to bad language :(

Turned out awesomely though. Kakara was awesome, as were our magic peeps. Dragon's chibi and safe (though with a somewhat venomous tongue). And Maya snorted. I think we can consider this battle an overwhelming success.
 
For what is worth, I doubt either of those things happened.
On the other hand, feeling a super-saiyan sized flare of energy that 'smells' like Jaron/Jaffur
This would require her to have extremely good ki sense given the amount of energy involved and that doesn't seem like her area of expertise.

feeling something that overtly opened a big enough breach in the Seal to let said amount of power through, might well have tripped an alarm that would not otherwise be tripped.


"Beautiful," you whisper. You flare your unpracticed gifts and weave a web, inspired for just an instant into glorious, sublime simplicity. You are so captivated by what you see and feel that you don't even take pride in what you know to be a flawless working.

And, through the temporary hole in your prison, your ki flows out and along Jaron's arms, unnoticed by the world in the glorious symphony playing outside.

Putting aside that it says his ki goes unnoticed amid the symphony, the hole was a flawless temporary work. I also doubt there was an alarm in place because of several reasons. For one, this is not the first time Jaffur punches a hole through it, if there was an alarm then Dandeer would have noticed whenever Jaffur took over Jaron to talk to us or to let his power out. For the second, sorcery works by concepts made real in their relation to sealing and such an alarm doesn't sound that easy to conceptualize in that context.

Edit: I also doubt giving ground rules to Dazzarel is that urgent. There are four royals here, they are not going to leave him unguarded while we do other things.
 
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Someone probably already pointed this out but

He grunts under the blow, and in a moment lines of light spring out from him, connecting to every sorcerer in the crowd. Then he focuses, staring down at Dazarel.
Supercharged Magic (DC: Haha, when they said that this was foolproof they meant it): 1,472.
Slowly, the psychic thrashing grows weaker, and Dazarel's voice picks up a thready quality. You deflect probe after probe, feeling the race in between your weakening abilities and his.

Pffffffthahaha, nice
 
For what is worth, I doubt either of those things happened.

This would require her to have extremely good ki sense given the amount of energy involved and that doesn't seem like her area of expertise.
On the other hand, the ki in question is that of her own son, which she might be predisposed to recognize. And we don't actually know how good Dandeer's ki sense is. Remember that she somehow realized we were at her house talking to Valentine about training Jaron and came running. Either she sensed our ki from a goodly distance away, or she had magical alarms rigged to tell us about such things, or something.

Dandeer is old and experienced compared to us; it is not safe or wise for us to make a lot of assumptions about what she can and cannot perceive. She's obviously not omniscient, but we shouldn't assume we're safe just because she (or her magic) are "blind" to our actions.

Putting aside that it says his ki goes unnoticed amid the symphony, the hole was a flawless temporary work.
"Flawless" means it did exactly what it was supposed to. Jaffur, whose knowledge of sorcery is all the result of secondhand information and experimentation under unfavorable circumstances, may not have known all the possible consequences of his action. Jaffur's ki may have gone unnoticed by some but not others, or may have gone unnoticed while the energy was being released but been noticed at some point of time during the hour or so that we were using the Spirit Bomb power boost to fight and subdue Dazarel.

Is this a thing that absolutely certainly happened? No, clearly not.

Is it a thing that couldn't have happened? No, it could reasonably have happened.

I also doubt there was an alarm in place because of several reasons. For one, this is not the first time Jaffur punches a hole through it, if there was an alarm then Dandeer would have noticed whenever Jaffur took over Jaron to talk to us or to let his power out
The alarm might be sensitive to very large breaches (like Jaffur roaring 'out' of the seal with his full power) but not small ones (like Jaffur letting a few hundred thousand units of power through, or taking momentary control). Or the spells Jaffur used from inside the seal to provide Jaron with power or ASSUME CONTROL may have been the result of months of careful effort on his part to find a way to bypass alarms and wards that were in place, and he may have tripped an alarm this time because he had no time to do anything about it.

I'm not saying this MUST be what happened. I'm saying it could, I'm saying it's at least a believable and plausible danger that we might want to guard against, as opposed to being a laughable and ridiculous notion that we should entirely ignore.

Can you at least grant me that much?

For the second, sorcery works by concepts made real in their relation to sealing and such an alarm doesn't sound that easy to conceptualize in that context.
Very simple sorcery works in simple ways. Advanced sorcery, such as only a handful of magicians can accomplish, may be capable of rather more things, or be adapted to do different things. Let's not assume that just because we heard one explanation of how Exile magic works, a hurried one given under battlefield conditions, that suddenly we know everything.

Edit: I also doubt giving ground rules to Dazzarel is that urgent. There are four royals here, they are not going to leave him unguarded while we do other things.
I don't think you understand why I call this important/urgent. The danger isn't that Dazarel will do something damaging right now. The danger is that if Dazarel has time to grow accustomed to the idea that he can interfere with us freely and without consequence, as he did with Maya... We are going to have to exert far more effort later to convince him otherwise. I'm bringing this up specifically because of my experience dealing with unruly little shits; you really want to start that process of establishing discipline and ground rules as early as possible. Because the amount of effort required grows exponentially as a function of the time invested. People are much more amenable to discipline immedately after their situation changes than after they've had time to grow accustomed to being free of any disciplinary constraints in their new situation.
 
So, Dragon is done. Aliens are next I guess. But, more importantly! Jaffur.

I want to try to teach him Genki Dama. I doubt he'll be able to use it from within the seal, but he can also teach Jaron for emergencies. They don't need to draw from the whole world (and they probably aren't going to be able to) but I can see this being used for the to draw ki from each other. So instead of forcing it the way Jaffur is when he's giving Jaron a shot of ki, they can draw more naturally and fully from each other.

Best case scenario, once the aliens come calling Jaron can draw on both his Ki and the ki of a Super Saiyan (or more if Jaffur manages to figure out SS2 in his off time) going full blast.
 
I want to try to teach him Genki Dama. I doubt he'll be able to use it from within the seal, but he can also teach Jaron for emergencies. They don't need to draw from the whole world (and they probably aren't going to be able to) but I can see this being used for the to draw ki from each other. So instead of forcing it the way Jaffur is when he's giving Jaron a shot of ki, they can draw more naturally and fully from each other.

I don't think either of them are capable of using the Genki Dama.

Not as they are now, and probably not for quite a while.

I think they need to be free and have had a chance to work past the pain of their lives and what was done to them before they could begin to approach the mindset necessary for the Genki Dama.
 
...wait.

Haaaaang on a sec. Taking a left turn out of current circumstances and driving directly into the ditch of wild speculation, uhhhhh

Lemme just check the original airdate of that character ... uh huh ... April 2016 ... June in the manga ...

... aaaaand lemme check the date this topic was originally posted on ... mm hmm, mm hmm ... August 2016 ...

...

Is the Enemy the Anti-Omni King? Or, less obliquely, an evil and evidently more powerful member of whatever race of being Zeno is? He's short enough!
 
...wait.

Haaaaang on a sec. Taking a left turn out of current circumstances and driving directly into the ditch of wild speculation, uhhhhh

Lemme just check the original airdate of that character ... uh huh ... April 2016 ... June in the manga ...

... aaaaand lemme check the date this topic was originally posted on ... mm hmm, mm hmm ... August 2016 ...

...

Is the Enemy the Anti-Omni King? Or, less obliquely, an evil and evidently more powerful member of whatever race of being Zeno is? He's short enough!
Zen-oh is Zen-oh. There is no other being like Zen-oh in these twelve universes, and the only other beings like Zen-oh in the timelines are Zen-oh.
 
I'm of the opinion that if Dandeer had detected the hole in the seal, or Jaffur's Ki among the Genki Dama, she wouldn't have waited till the end of the fight to slowly fly off in a bad mood. She would have dropped what she was doing right then and shot off home. Considering her mental state, it would have been the only thing she could have done, and damn everything else. The fact that she didn't, combined with the fact that the actual text itself told us that no one noticed his Ki among everyone else, except us, means she almost certainly didn't detect him making the hole.

And even if she does decide to check the seal when she gets home, I doubt she's going to find anything. Jaffer's breach was a perfect working, which means that it almost certainly perfectly sealed itself after it closed. He knows the dangers involved, and wouldn't leave a hole open.

Checking on Jaron and Jaffur first thing is nothing more than allowing paranoia to get in the way of things that are actually urgent.
 
...wait.

Haaaaang on a sec. Taking a left turn out of current circumstances and driving directly into the ditch of wild speculation, uhhhhh

Lemme just check the original airdate of that character ... uh huh ... April 2016 ... June in the manga ...

... aaaaand lemme check the date this topic was originally posted on ... mm hmm, mm hmm ... August 2016 ...

...

Is the Enemy the Anti-Omni King? Or, less obliquely, an evil and evidently more powerful member of whatever race of being Zeno is? He's short enough!
Actually, the Enemy is:
El Grande Padre
 
Completely Without Consequence
The complete lack of drama with regards to the sealing was amusing to read.
Even funnier was the teasing Kakara took from her family after everything. And I will point out that Maya saw the adults teasing Kakara to blushpoint right after she kicked the ever-loving shit out of Daz, which must have been one hell of a whiplash moment.

With a thready, high-pitched screech, the dragon lunges forward out of your hands towards your face. Startled, your hands phase into place, catching him by the neck and dragging him back out to arms reach.
LOOK AT WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO ME!
You blink. Despite the size change, his mental voice is no less impressive -- a booming, raspy baritone in your head. You shake your head and scowl. "Don't do that again."He makes a reedy noise and belches a tiny fireball into your face. You power up just as it bursts on your face. The smoke clears. You run your thumb along your cheek. It comes away black with soot.
You let out a shuddering breath and hold her tight, as Dazarel snorts in disgust at the display and flaps off, into the distance.
This was everything I wanted out of this vote.
Thank you.

Whereas if Dandeer noticed Jaffur punching a hole in the Seal and headed away to do something about that, we may need to shut that shit down fast. Dazarel being an unruly little shit is something we need to deal with promptly, second in priority only to making sure Dandeer doesn't mess up Jaffur/Jaron while we're otherwise occupied.
Jaron is now a member of the Misfits. Remember?
Voting to meet with the Misfits means voting to talk to Jaron. Jaffur can wait until we have everything else in order, including our Sight; he'll understand what it means that we're literally exhausted.


VOTE
[X][AFTER] Go visit the Misfits. You need to tell your other friends what's going on.
[X][CHIBI] He can be out in front of saiyans, and reveal himself only to humans you personally approve. Garenhulders are easy to convince about new things being old, but you don't want to have to en masse, and if the scouts pick up a TV broadcast where the insolent lizard showed his face, and broadcast it to the wrong person...

Misfits first because it's probably a good idea to firm up Kakara's friends and moral support first. Jaffur can listen in to the story we tell Jaron and the Misfits, which helps mitigate three problems with one stone.

We want to rehab Dazarel, which means reward for good behavior as well as punishment for bad behavior.
And I'm not sure pain is that much of a motivator anymore to someone who got punched by a Spirit Saiyan.

So he starts with a clean slate. If he's good, we eventually give him the freedom to expose himself to all Garenhulders. If he misbehaves, we can tighten the restrictions on his freedom of association; maybe send him to spend time with Yammar or Apra. So carrot and stick. It allows us to take advantage of the multiplicity of saiyans and trusted humans to socialize him while keeping an eye on his contacts until he establishes a measure of trust.

If nothing else, there are probably more therapist humans than there are saiyans, and Berra probably can vet a few.

Also, best to keep him off TV cameras until we deal with the alien invasion.
We don't know how well known dragons are in the wider galaxy, but I suspect even a hatchling might draw attention. Especially if he makes genocidal threats on TV.
 
Misfits first because it's probably a good idea to firm up Kakara's friends and moral support first. Jaffur can listen in to the story we tell Jaron and the Misfits, which helps mitigate three problems with one stone.
The main problem with going to our friends first, is what do we tell them? Remember, our deceit score is pretty weak, and they are going to pry with this one. We need to sit down with our dad and figure out the story to tell the world.
 
He is definitely an affable guy. Kakara just has to keep in mind that he is absolutely in favor of actions which she finds morally abhorrent. He's taken them willingly in the past, and has not shown (that we are aware of) any remorse or indication that he would do differently in the future.

You aren't wrong. People also find themselves liking Freddy Kruger. The problem happens when people conflate 'I enjoy this character' and 'this character is a good person'. It's a sadly common fallacy.

Look, I don't care. I could just as easily harp on The Sundering and shit when people compliment Berra. It would be assholery, just as it's assholery to shit on me for saying even vaguely positive things about Yammar by jumping all over how eeeeevil Yammar is as if I don't know the same shit about him the rest of the thread does. It's trying to deny me my opinion just because other people dislike him, with a logic that, on a basic level, can be applied to most of the known adult cast. Likewise, people don't jump on complimenting Appra, even though she pals around with Yammar, so by this 'obviously irrevocably tainted' logic people keep throwing at me, she also is tainted (by not judging him 'as he deserves'.)

Characters in this quest are complicated. Loads of them have done questionable things or made mistakes. Yet the faintest of praise for Yammar and only Yammar gets this abhorrently hostile reaction that tries to assert I have no right to an opinion or else that my opinion is objectively wrong and I have obviously foolishly forgotten what he did, here Terrabrand lemme correct your temporary insanity.

I am sick of it, and will stand for it no longer.
 
Look, I don't care. I could just as easily harp on The Sundering and shit when people compliment Berra. It would be assholery, just as it's assholery to shit on me for saying even vaguely positive things about Yammar by jumping all over how eeeeevil Yammar is as if I don't know the same shit about him the rest of the thread does. It's trying to deny me my opinion just because other people dislike him, with a logic that, on a basic level, can be applied to most of the known adult cast. Likewise, people don't jump on complimenting Appra, even though she pals around with Yammar, so by this 'obviously irrevocably tainted' logic people keep throwing at me, she also is tainted (by not judging him 'as he deserves'.)

Characters in this quest are complicated. Loads of them have done questionable things or made mistakes. Yet the faintest of praise for Yammar and only Yammar gets this abhorrently hostile reaction that tries to assert I have no right to an opinion or else that my opinion is objectively wrong and I have obviously foolishly forgotten what he did, here Terrabrand lemme correct your temporary insanity.

I am sick of it, and will stand for it no longer.
I wouldn't say only Yammar (glances at Dandeer), though I would agree with you for the most part.
 
The main problem with going to our friends first, is what do we tell them? Remember, our deceit score is pretty weak, and they are going to pry with this one. We need to sit down with our dad and figure out the story to tell the world.
The truth? Or as much of it as is safe for them to know.
They are strong enough to handle it, and neither Kakara nor Maya are especially good at lying.
Berra let her train the Misfits; they will have discussed eventualities for shit like this.

We already told the world that there was trouble incoming, like the invasion next year; some new threat fits right into that story.
A dragon showed up to eat the planet; any telescopes pointed at the sky noticed it dropping in, and everyone could feel the earth tremors.
We used an ancient family technique to make everyone help in defeating it. KISS.

Furthermore, we're voting for what we prioritize now, not what we do.
The GM said we get around to everything eventually. Most of those options can be handled or helped by others anyway; stuff like personal social is shit only Kakara can handle.

Which means the real priorities are between the Misfits, Jaffur and our family.
And with Kakara's exhaustion being bad enough to disable Multiform, I don't think straining our Seer ability right now is a good idea. And Berra is going home, and can stall the fam for a bit.

While talking to the Misfits just requires physical presence, and allows us to check on Jaron as well.
 
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Is the Enemy the Anti-Omni King? Or, less obliquely, an evil and evidently more powerful member of whatever race of being Zeno is? He's short enough!
I do not think the following comment is a spoiler since it reveals no knowledge unless you know who the first spoiler is talking about, but...
In addition to any other counter-arguments, the Omni-King has the power to obliterate universes by an act of will. The evidence suggests that the Enemy at least exerted himself overpowering the defenders of Earth, to the extent that the outcome of his battle against Gohan was at least uncertain enough for the likes of Fortuneteller Baba to not ensconce herself aboard the Exiles' spaceships as a commonsense precaution. Thus, he is so much less powerful than the Omni-King that there is no comparison, and is in no true sense an 'opposite' to that one.

Jaron is now a member of the Misfits. Remember?
Voting to meet with the Misfits means voting to talk to Jaron. Jaffur can wait until we have everything else in order, including our Sight; he'll understand what it means that we're literally exhausted.
Yes; I voted for that too.

The things I have voted for are:

1) Visiting the Misfits (with the ancillary goal of making sure Jaron, and by extension Jaffur, is safe from interference by Dandeer)
2) Laying down ground rules for Dazarel (which I consider to be pretty important; i I weren't worried about Jaffur this would be my top priority hands down), AND...

3) A write-in where we ask Apra to check and make sure Dandeer isn't up to mischief with Jaron/Jaffur while we take a moment to lay down ground rules or Dazarel.

I definitely did not vote for using the Sight to visit Jaffur directly, because that would place us at a grave disadvantage if Dandeer were in fact interfering with him. It might result in us falling into Dandeer's power, or at a bare minimum being unable to help Jaffur due to being at a huge power penalty due to being a projection.

We want to rehab Dazarel, which means reward for good behavior as well as punishment for bad behavior.
He hasn't started behaving well yet.

When dealing with a person who has trouble with 'sense of right and wrong,' you do not start out by giving them rewards and privileges in hopes that it will motivate good behavior. Because they don't have a fully functional sense of gratitude or reciprocity, they won't think the thought "I am being given things, so I should repay this person by giving them things back." They will instead think "I have a right to these things, and maybe more," and if you try to take the things away later they will be more likely to resent you.

We need to start with the minimum privileges, then lengthen his leash as he proves more capable of earning it.

Look, I don't care. I could just as easily harp on The Sundering and shit when people compliment Berra. It would be assholery, just as it's assholery to shit on me for saying even vaguely positive things about Yammar by jumping all over how eeeeevil Yammar is as if I don't know the same shit about him the rest of the thread does. It's trying to deny me my opinion just because other people dislike him, with a logic that, on a basic level, can be applied to most of the known adult cast. Likewise, people don't jump on complimenting Appra, even though she pals around with Yammar, so by this 'obviously irrevocably tainted' logic people keep throwing at me, she also is tainted (by not judging him 'as he deserves'.)

Characters in this quest are complicated. Loads of them have done questionable things or made mistakes. Yet the faintest of praise for Yammar and only Yammar gets this abhorrently hostile reaction that tries to assert I have no right to an opinion or else that my opinion is objectively wrong and I have obviously foolishly forgotten what he did, here Terrabrand lemme correct your temporary insanity.

I am sick of it, and will stand for it no longer.
Um... you seem super angry. I'm not sure who, or how many people, are acting this way to you, but I think most of us aren't and don't share this view that people are angry about.

You have the air about you of one who is digging in for a heroic last stand, and I'm... a bit surprised to be told you're under that level of attack. I think you're preparing for a last-ditch defense of your ability to like Yammar's snark, at a time when no one wants to take that right away from you or as such tell you you must be crazystupid for exercising that right.
 
[X][AFTER] Go visit the Misfits. You need to tell your other friends what's going on.
[X][AFTER] Lay down some ground rules with Dazarel about what does and does not constitute proper behavior.
[X][AFTER] Follow up with the people of Garenhuld regarding what just happened.
[x][AFTER] Go to your people. They will want to see you, right now.

[X][CHIBI] He is to be refused all contact with people save on your sufferance. You're not going to refuse to give him any contact -- assuming solitary confinement even works on him like it does on saiyans or humans -- but you're going to personally vet each and every conversation he has.

It's easier to relax restrictions than vice versa.
 
Um... you seem super angry. I'm not sure who, or how many people, are acting this way to you, but I think most of us aren't and don't share this view that people are angry about.

You have the air about you of one who is digging in for a heroic last stand, and I'm... a bit surprised to be told you're under that level of attack. I think you're preparing for a last-ditch defense of your ability to like Yammar's snark, at a time when no one wants to take that right away from you or as such tell you you must be crazystupid for exercising that right.
It doesn't have to be blatant for there to be an air of "you are wrong for liking this character and should feel bad about it."
 
The main problem with going to our friends first, is what do we tell them? Remember, our deceit score is pretty weak, and they are going to pry with this one. We need to sit down with our dad and figure out the story to tell the world.
Dragon came, we fought him and beat him with a technique that shares energy.

We already told them we would explain what happened to them so it is going to happen anyways. While it is true it might be better if we take our time so we have a story prepared... well, Maya is probably going home after this and the Misfits suspect she was with us. So either we tell them or we go with Maya's story later. Which, to be fair, will probably be that a dragon came, we fought him and beat him with a technique that shares energy. Also, magic is real and the dragon is now house cat sized.

The alarm might be sensitive to very large breaches (like Jaffur roaring 'out' of the seal with his full power) but not small ones (like Jaffur letting a few hundred thousand units of power through, or taking momentary control). Or the spells Jaffur used from inside the seal to provide Jaron with power or ASSUME CONTROL may have been the result of months of careful effort on his part to find a way to bypass alarms and wards that were in place, and he may have tripped an alarm this time because he had no time to do anything about it.

I'm not saying this MUST be what happened. I'm saying it could, I'm saying it's at least a believable and plausible danger that we might want to guard against, as opposed to being a laughable and ridiculous notion that we should entirely ignore.

Can you at least grant me that much?
I have no problem with that and think that checking just in case might be a good idea; I was the one who proposed we inform Apra and Yammar after all. I just don't like people voting misinformed. If they want to vote for it, then perfect. However, if I see a flawed argument about how likely it is, I think it is fair to them to point it out. If they vote for it, I would like it to be because of how disastrous it could be if something happened now that we don't have the seers as a safety net, not because they think the chance of it happening is higher than it is.
 
He hasn't started behaving well yet.
People start with a clean slate.
And if he doesn't have a taste of what he's missing, he has no incentive to act well.
When dealing with a person who has trouble with 'sense of right and wrong,' you do not start out by giving them rewards and privileges in hopes that it will motivate good behavior.
That's not how we treat children. Or puppies.
And children are the prototypical no sense of right and wrong specimen.

Because they don't have a fully functional sense of gratitude or reciprocity, they won't think the thought "I am being given things, so I should repay this person by giving them things back." They will instead think "I have a right to these things, and maybe more," and if you try to take the things away later they will be more likely to resent you.
We do this all the time with children.
We start them at a base level of responsibility and trust. If they act well, they get the keys to the car, longer curfew times, no formal checkups on their homework or computer time. If they act badly, they lose car privileges, the computer gets moved to the living room, et cetera.

Hell, the most successful prison rehabilitation schemes in the world are in Scandinavia, and they start out with a base level of privileges and the like, which are not taken away unless there is provable reason to do so. Anders Breivik, who massacred a bunch of kids, started with a TV and game console in his room, and that was considered normal.

Daz is not going to learn much very fast in isolation besides stewing in anger and resentment.
You need to expose him to what he could have, and as many people as possible, if you're trying to build empathy for people, instead of maybe attachment to one person.
 
You need to expose him to what he could have, and as many people as possible, if you're trying to build empathy for people, instead of maybe attachment to one person.
To be fair. Piccolo started his reformation with attachment to one person.

Then again, he also fused with the protector of Namek and later with God, but I think he was already mostly reformed when the second happened?
 
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