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- He/Him
Please don't just throw out half-made ideas without any thought on how to actually accomplish them. It actively reduces the quality of discussion.
DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest
- Thread starter Made in Heaven
- Start date
- Crossover
I mean, what's the point, though? Like, what is the practical benefit of owning our own nation?
Another important consideration: would it actually be good for Doof as a person to be a real dictator? Like, would that be a good thing for his mental health? Is that where his character arc is going?
I'm uncertain, but I don't think it is.
I'm uncertain, but I don't think it is.
Informatively ominous.
- Location
- The Z-Cave
I think Doof growing as a leader has been a very good thing for him but him wanting to be a dictator is not. The whole evil overlord shtick has always been born from Doof's massive insecurities and self-worth issues him not needing to constantly reinforce his authority and poor self-esteem would only be good for him.
- Location
- USA
I am so hyped for the next part of this.
It feels like something really, really significant is about to happen with doof and kitsune. Like a big character growth moment for both of them. He might make another genuine friend. I'm so excited.
Last time I felt like this was when we went in doofs mind.
It feels like something really, really significant is about to happen with doof and kitsune. Like a big character growth moment for both of them. He might make another genuine friend. I'm so excited.
Last time I felt like this was when we went in doofs mind.
Yep. The whole evil overlord bit, at heart, represents an unhealthy coping mechanism for Doof. He does it because he wants power and respect and he can only conceptualize that through the acquisition of a fancy title (like his brother had). The idea that Doof ALREADY HAS what he wants, that people DO like him and that he does have power over the world, or at least a Tri-State Area, hasn't really been internalized. I think what Doof really wants is to find even one person who doesn't mock him or reject him outright. That's part of why he liked Perry so much. Perry was the one person who willingly spent time in Doof's presence on a regular basis, and, by thwarting his evil schemes time after time, Perry validated that, yes, Doof mattered. If he didn't, Perry wouldn't bother to stop him, right? Doof NEEDS approval, but he's internalized his self-hatred so much he doesn't realize that he HAS approval, that the people love him, probably more then they ever loved his brother. It says something that, despite all his many schemes to somehow become mayor through some overly-convoluted device, Doof never once tried just...Running for mayor, legitimately. He can't conceptualize that anyone COULD like him. That's probably why he defines himself as evil, despite rarely rising above the level of vandalism. Because being evil is a way of owning the fact that society has rejected him. A villain is SUPPOSED to be hated. If everyone hates him anyway, he might as well lean in and be a villain. Not like he could do anything else.
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- Location
- Everywhere
I'll be transparent, the practical benefit is very secondary to me at most. I want it because I want it. I'm certain there are real benefits, of course, but it's 1:30 AM and I'm not running on enough brain power to explain them coherently
KnownParadox
Not a sphere
- Location
- Canada
All this talk of government and seeking independence or rejoining officially...
What if we just became President? You know, become overlord legally. We were a major part in solving the food crisis, we can start our campaign with that and promise to do even more.
Then again, being President probably restricts us as well.
What if we just became President? You know, become overlord legally. We were a major part in solving the food crisis, we can start our campaign with that and promise to do even more.
Then again, being President probably restricts us as well.
- Location
- Everywhere
See I'd be all for that…if Doof was an American born citizen.
We are not a natural born citizen, and we aren't actually that well-liked outside the Tri-State itself.
- Location
- Somewhere nearby.
I've said it before, we just need to advance AI rights and have Norm become president. He was made in the USA after all.
- Location
- Everywhere
Okay well, I'm reading through the thread and catching up, and look what I just spotted in the Objectives post
Judging by the similarity of name to a certain Disney show, it seems the QMs might actually believe we have a sliver of a chance to succeed in politik.
Judging by the similarity of name to a certain Disney show, it seems the QMs might actually believe we have a sliver of a chance to succeed in politik.
AProcrastinator
You can Certainly Try
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That's... hugely reductive, and a major leap in logic. I say that I don't want to hand the Tri-State back to the government because I think we're doing a better job, and you immediately presume I want to completely wipe the government off the face of the Earth? That's... I've never said anything like that!
It's a foothold. Or, to put it the other way, it's the first step to TAKING OVER THE WORLD!
...ah, wait, I see the problem now. Yeah, okay, I get where you guys are coming from.
...okay, okay, but being serious:
I see now. Hence why the government has arrived at the state they have: they're angry about Doofenschmirtz seceding, but they don't have the resources to get him to loosen his grip, and also, he's kind of taking the pressure off, as reluctant as they are to admit? It makes sense.
But then my viewpoint shifts slightly into a criticism: we do not have any options to work with the government to keep the charade going. We do not have any options to slowly expand our influence until we can cover some or all of what the government does. We do not have any options to pull-a-sneaky, handing the reigns back over but calling ourselves "Doofania" in private and our company memos.
We just have characters telling Doof how dumb and crazy he is, how his goals and ambitions are stupid, meta-commentary from the GMs telling us over and over and over that we should just hurry up and rejoin already, and...
...as Nystical has just inadvertently pointed out...
...an action whose stated rewards seem less like rewards and more like the GMs rolling their eyes at me for wanting to do something so dumb and delusional. A reductive thing, not willing to listen to argument. Something which is designed to shut down opposing viewpoints.
Like, Technor is a supervillain. Himself. And he approves of people being villainous if that's what they want to do, see: the interlude with Lizzy joining up. He's a big fan of property damage and egotism and the betterance of the evil self.
And yet.
Doofenschmirtz, who has arguably further along than Technor, Lizzy, or any of his other employees at his villainous goals, has been told by Technor that his supervillain instincts are rooted in psychosis, trauma and a need for attention, and has strongly hinted that he needs to overcome them.
And I can easily see how, no, I'm misinterpreting, and Technor's advice isn't to stop being a supervillain, it's to change up the motive, just like he did for Lizzy; beforehand, she was obsessed with Stanley and that drove her, now she's in healthier place in her lawbreaking. That would make sense. The thing is -
- we don't have any options to change up our motives, but continue our supervillainy?
All we have is a steadily declining DC on a specific action that the GMs have repeatedly hinted, nudged, and directly stated is the only correct one, shutting down any discussion that "Well, actually, maybe there's another way -" or "Well, from certain philosophical points of view, Doof is actually sort of right -" the very moment it happens.
It's hand the reigns back to the government in name as well as in deed, "keep being delusional", or... destroy everything, causing untold destruction and the death and suffering of millions for the sake of being petty. Maybe annex Drusselstein, ha ha ha. According to the options as have been presented to us, there are no other pathways forwards.
So I guess what I'm saying is, my viewpoint has moved. With the information I have been given, I no longer think "Doofenschmirtz is doing a better job than the US Government." I think "Doofenschmirtz could do a better job than the US Government, if given the chance. And I don't think he's wrong for wanting to."
We had a whole interlude on the power of belief, and how humans thinking things makes them real. Why shouldn't Doofenschmirtz be "delusional" enough that he gives himself actual power? What's so wrong with wishing on a star?
Annexing Drusselstein would be a good place to start in on that, I suppose. But I guess... I guess maybe I'm just reading too much into things?
That option feels like a joke, at our expense? That and "overthrowing the government". I'm not exactly fond of "Fake choices". It's... fairly condescending, to be honest with you all.
...Doofenschmirtz being in charge of the Tri-State area is the fundamental premise which both this Quest and DVV as a whole is built from. It's part of the setting. Am I really the only one that finds it super weird that, 2000 pages into the topic, I feel like I continually have to defend the very conceit we're playing under?
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Here's the thing: Giving the reins back to the feds would not change ANYTHING, really, in terms of Doof's level of power. He's still a megacorp CEO, the feds still have no real reason to stop him (even less if he stops openly flouting them). It would entail changing some paperwork. Does it matter that Doof is technical ruler of the Tri-State Area in title? He can still do all the stuff he's currently doing regardless. And, besides, it's not like giving up our sham of a rogue nation means ceasing to BE a supervillain. Shego makes no claims of independence, but she's still a supervillain through and through, Syndrome and Evelyn were both supervillains, hell, Xanay may lack a lot of the mindset, but he has a suit of powered armor, an evil lair consisting of a medieval castle on top of a skyscraper, and an army of metallic henchman, which is all some supervillain stuff. All that would change, in the short-term, if we gave up our independence is that the feds would become far more open to working with us, and Russ would like us more. We'd still be a megacorp CEO in a Shadowrun setting, with all the power that entails, we just wouldn't have a cool title anymore. We'd still be "in charge" in every way that matters.
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AProcrastinator
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You're right.
But there's no option to actually acknowledge that.
It's either "Doofenschmirtz stops calling himself the ruler of the Tri-State and accepts the truth in his heart that he isn't" or nothing. That doesn't sit well with me.
Persepctive, and people, are more important than power. We've learned that lesson time and again.
- Location
- USA
That's disappointing that you feel that way. Would be cool to invade Drusselstein. Give Janus a lawless playground for science.
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That's the thing: He...Isn't. Or, well...It's complicated. The feds could still take Doof out at any moment if they wanted. The main reason they don't is that Doof is a load-bearing centerpiece of the late-stage jenga game that is the US. If they take him down, they set a precedent none of the other Kings will like, and, well...The feds could probably take any one King, but not ALL OF THEM. Doof is not a feudal lord, he is a CEO. And he should come to grips with that.
- Location
- Everywhere
You know, outside the meme of Drusselstein being the ultimate taint, what would be the drawbacks of annexing Drusselstein? I don't imagine any rebellion would be hard to put down, it's not a terribly large country if I'm remembering right….is there something I'm missing?
AProcrastinator
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What you just described sure sounds like a feudal lord to me. We've sort of elbowed our way into position, but like, other than not having permission it sounds like it describes where we're at to a T?
...imagine how much cool guy cred we'd get in the multiverse for making Drusselstein into a livable place.
Holy cow.
Okay, you've convinced me. I'm in.
1. The inherent work of actually, for real, trying to manage an entire country, as opposed to just saying we do and doing some civic works projects and 2. The country in question is Drusselstein, and its unpleasantness may be memetic, but it is also entirely true that it is, ya know, literally worse then Hell.
The monopoly on force is a pretty vital part of that sort of power. As is, ya know, being a legitimate ruler in any sense of the term. Doof needs to stop playing Tropico and start playing Shadowrun.
I have no desire to feed Janus' urge to do non consensual experimentation on starving European peasants. We're fun evil, not banal evil.
- Location
- USA
#TeamInvadeDrusselstein
Send in the Khan.
Doonkleberry flavor for Franchise Wars.
Use unrestricted science to make giant crickets for even cheaper meat.
Janus historically freaks out when he fears his research will be blocked or ruined, do giving him a playground and extra leeway for science should calm down his anxiety.
Also gives Princess CJ more potential narrative role.
Also could be fun for Genghis to finally feel like he's doing what he's best at.
Send in the Khan.
Doonkleberry flavor for Franchise Wars.
Use unrestricted science to make giant crickets for even cheaper meat.
Janus historically freaks out when he fears his research will be blocked or ruined, do giving him a playground and extra leeway for science should calm down his anxiety.
Also gives Princess CJ more potential narrative role.
Also could be fun for Genghis to finally feel like he's doing what he's best at.
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"Unrestricted science" is not actually a good fun time, Nys. Also, seriously, the QMs could not signpost "this is a bad idea" much harder.
Eh, to be fair, we explicitly chose Drusselstein because, apparently, the international community prefers to avoid acknowledging it at all.