Remove ads

DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

Reader mode
woweed said:
See, your problem there is the assumption that he's helping. Xanay doesn't do no-strings-attached "help" to anyone except Fox. We're a resource. He cares about us the same way we care about a cow. Sure, it's a useful resource, and we may feed it well, but, in the end, it'll get slaughtered in the heartbeat if and when the time comes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oh, I totally expect some kind of strings attached from Davids offer.

But I am not expecting him to garrot us with these strings willy-nilly. With enough prodding, sure - but *Not* inevitably so, since we are still a KING.

That´s not the kind of patsy you just sacrifice at the first convenience.

Yes, we´d be a "piece" of his, but considering Doofs zaniness, I expect us to become a sort of Knight - you know, that *Nasty little bugger* that can circumvent the fucking QUEEN with little problems among other thingsand that because of that is considered one of the single *Shittiest* pieces to have to sacrifice?

What I am saying that we´d become *too valuable* to him to just throw at some meatgrinder because he can.

He is not that dumb by half.

And by the time the noose might tighten around our neck on his behest, BANG! Suddenly he realizes that thanks to our rugged charm, we have graduated from being a mere tool to an actual ally, maybe even a *friend*.

Doof is charismatic like that, you know?
 
Jastolus said:
So what you're saying is that you are a XanaDoof shipper.
Well, who am I to judge.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Doof does have a thing for Secret Agent Men historically, but...Nah.

TheGleeman said:
Oh, I totally expect some kind of strings attached from Davids offer.

But I am not expecting him to garrot us with these strings willy-nilly. With enough prodding, sure - but *Not* inevitably so, since we are still a KING.

That´s not the kind of patsy you just sacrifice at the first convenience.

Yes, we´d be a "piece" of his, but considering Doofs zaniness, I expect us to become a sort of Knight - you know, that *Nasty little bugger* that can circumvent the fucking QUEEN with little problems among other thingsand that because of that is considered one of the single *Shittiest* pieces to have to sacrifice?

What I am saying that we´d become *too valuable* to him to just throw at some meatgrinder because he can.

He is not that dumb by half.

And by the time the noose might tighten around our neck on his behest, BANG! Suddenly he realizes that thanks to our rugged charm, we have graduated from being a mere tool to an actual ally, maybe even a *friend*.

Doof is charismatic like that, you know?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
...I think you and I have very different reads on how Xanay thinks. I think the only person he has that would count as a friend (not counting his family) would be Owen, and even then, that's a master/servant relationship. I don't think our odds of winning him over on sheer charisma are at all good.
 
Last edited:
Honestly, my first instinct was to do both. Learn from Xanatos, and then talk with Mirage about what we learn; to mitigate sabotage.

Ok, after much thought:

I don't think taking Xanatos's offer is a bad choice. It wouldn't grant him much more than he already has, while shoring up our defences against everyone else. Xan sees us as a chess piece, yeah; and he's offering to make us more valuble to him: but that doesn't mean we are further under his control. Just that we are better, by for example being trustworthier on a personal level through our higher intruige score.
(Part of me wonders if our low intruige score is stopping him from putting us in his confidences...)

However, I'm thinking about what Doof cares about, and realising that he wouldn't care for the kind of relationship Xan is trying to build here. He'd much rather further the relationship he has with Mirage. Basically, a core team that he can trust and cares about him is much more valuable to him.

So, Mirage.
[X] Develop Your Center


... it will mean stalling out any possible relationship growth with Xanatos. ...I'm still torn.
 
woweed said:
See, your problem there is the assumption that he's helping. Xanay doesn't do no-strings-attached "help" to anyone except Fox, or, rather, did. We're a resource. He cares about us the same way we care about a cow. Sure, it's a useful resource, and we may feed it well, but, in the end, it'll get slaughtered in the heartbeat if and when the time comes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So do we want to be his ally or not? You seem to think he's going to stab us in the back at some point and I don't see it. He's had plenty of opportunity.

woweed said:
That's not how this works. We're giving Xanay an in, not just into our corporate operations but into how Doof THINKS. Maybe he would get it anyway, but I see no reason to leave the door unlocked.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He's already in? Who cares if this give Xanatos yet another edge against us in the intrigue game if it can make us stronger against actual enemies like Doom and Toffee.

This just feels like a knee jerk reaction from a lot of people seeing treachery when it's not really warranted.
 
bigking321 said:
So do we want to be his ally or not? You seem to think he's going to stab us in the back at some point and I don't see it. He's had plenty of opportunity.


He's already in? Who cares if this give Xanatos yet another edge against us in the intrigue game if it can make us stronger against actual enemies like Doom and Toffee.

This just feels like a knee jerk reaction from a lot of people seeing treachery when it's not really warranted.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This interlude feels to me like an extended moment of "Xanany is NOT ACTUALLY A FRIEND". He's manipulating us, he probably has been this whole time. And agreed to his offer would just let him do it more. Sure, he's in (well, he's not gonna be, if we go for the no, it knocks him down to Tier 2, potentially Tier 1 if Mez's sweep works), but why give him more? I think we should treat him the way he treats us: As an ally of convenience, one not to get too closely attached to. And letting him teach us Intrigue would do that. We wouldn't be able to hide shit from him ever again.
 
Last edited:
woweed said:
This interlude feels to me like an extended moment of "Xanany is NOT ACTUALLY A FRIEND". He's manipulating us, he probably has been this whole time. And agreed to his offer would just let him do it more. Sure, he's in (well, he's not gonna be, if we go for the no, it knocks him down to Tier 2, potentially Tier 1 if Mez's sweep works), but why give him more? I think we should treat him the way he treats us: As an ally of convenience, one not to get too closely attached to. And letting him teach us Intrigue would do that. We wouldn't be able to hide shit from him ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because we want him to be our ally and friend against the bigger threats like toffee and Bill? Because he's sane and stable?

I'm genuinely surprised how heated and contentious this choice has gotten. Just goes to show you can't really tell what votes get a reaction.
 
bigking321 said:
Because we want him to be our ally and friend against the bigger threats like toffee and Bill? Because he's sane and stable?

I'm genuinely surprised how heated and contentious this choice has gotten. Just goes to show you can't really tell what votes get a reaction.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't think he can be a friend. An ally, maybe. A friend? Not a thing he does. Xanay is not a man of sentiment. And if he's gonna be a friend, i'd prefer it to be as a fellow player, not a game piece.
 
bigking321 said:
Buy why do we want to do that?

Do we want to act like Xanatos is a ally against greater threats or do we want to act like he's a enemy we want to inconvenience.

I really get confused by people sometimes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ok sorry. To be clear what I am saying is we speed bump inconvenience him wthier way might was well go with the one that makes us better against most others and teaches us how to play the game for real verse slightly annoying him. As well it was to show he has to give something up to get us thereby less Likley to betray us. We don't want to play wackamole with xany spys every turn ethier
 
KRISF said:
Ok sorry. To be clear what I am saying is we speed bump inconvenience him wthier way might was well go with the one that makes us better against most others and teaches us how to play the game for real verse slightly annoying him. As well it was to show he has to give something up to get us thereby less Likley to betray us. We don't want to play wackamole with xany spys every turn ethier
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would like to aspire to more then being an inconvenient speed bump. This is exactly why I don't want to take the offer. It reeks of quitting, of conceding that we can never beat him. No thanks.
 
Last edited:
woweed said:
I don't think he can be a friend. An ally, maybe. A friend? Not a thing he does. Xanay is not a man of sentiment. And if he's gonna be a friend, i'd prefer it to be as a fellow player, not a game piece.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"Not a man of sentiment"?

You do remember, that he fell in love with, married and had a kid with a woman he at first only was interested in because the two "were compatible and therefore, marriage would be a wise choice", yes?

I am not saying that David is a bleeding heart - he definitely isn´t , but neither is he a cold-hearted bastard bereft of all-too-human follies.

That´s what I am counting on.
 
bigking321 said:
So do we want to be his ally or not? You seem to think he's going to stab us in the back at some point and I don't see it. He's had plenty of opportunity.


He's already in? Who cares if this give Xanatos yet another edge against us in the intrigue game if it can make us stronger against actual enemies like Doom and Toffee.

This just feels like a knee jerk reaction from a lot of people seeing treachery when it's not really warranted.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're right in that a major backstab isn't a likely threat in any individual turn or circumstance. To actually betray us, there would need to be a specific type of situation that makes it worth it, which is unlikely but possible.

I think a much bigger problem is the loss of information advantages. Stuff like the strange signal, or receiving Jumba's broadcast. Having access to information others don't often results in beneficial outcomes. That'd be partially lost.

There'd also be the fact that he has much better chances of manipulating our people or people we have a relationship in the future. So we may indirectly making our allies and associates vulnerable.
KRISF said:
Ok sorry. To be clear what I am saying is we speed bump inconvenience him wthier way might was well go with the one that makes us better against most others and teaches us how to play the game for real verse slightly annoying him. As well it was to show he has to give something up to get us thereby less Likley to betray us. We don't want to play wackamole with xany spys every turn ethier
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
For us to play whackamole, he'd have to keep wasting actions.
Not to mention that him regaining tier 3 infiltration should be more than a speedbump, because he'd have to subvert one of our loyal councillors.
 
Last edited:
TheGleeman said:
What I am saying that we´d become *too valuable* to him to just throw at some meatgrinder because he can.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Our primary value to him is as ablative armor.

Our "Alliance against Toffee" is Xanatos getting us poke our noses into the interdimensional war first so Xanatos doesn't have to risk himself or other stuff he really cares about. We are his metaphorical canary in the coal mine, if Toffee pops us then Xanatos will know to GTFO. If we somehow win then he can manipulate Doof to give him a share of the proceeds or just take advantage of us while we are weakened from battle.
 
I'm sort of tired of this debate so I'll leave off with this.

I think Xanatos is a good ally against bigger threats.

He is a master of intrigue and already knows pretty much everything about us.

My entire issue with him manipulating us was that Doof was completely unaware it was happening and now he is completely aware of it. I have no problem with Doof working with him as long as he knows the reality of it. And now he does.

I am completely fine with Xanatos having a advantage over us as long as it means genuine threats like Doom, Toffee and the hats gain a disadvantage against us.

That's pretty much my position on all of this.

You all have a great day. Don't get too worked up about this.
 
Last edited:
TheGleeman said:
"Not a man of sentiment"?

You do remember, that he fell in love with, married and had a kid with a woman he at first only was interested in because the two "were compatible and therefore, marriage would be a wise choice", yes?

I am not saying that David is a bleeding heart - he definitely isn´t , but neither is he a cold-hearted bastard bereft of all-too-human follies.

That´s what I am counting on.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, Fox and his son are the rare exceptions. Past that, though....Owen, I guess, but friendship isn't his game.
 
AProcrastinator said:
...why is Xanatos being put in the same category as Toffee and Bill? Last I checked, the man was not advocating for any of kind of genocide, cruelty, or revenge against the world in general. In fact, if I recall Gargoyles correct, Xanatos has famously said that revenge is a "sucker's game".

If not accepting help from David Xanatos in order to... beat? David Xanatos?... is something you feel strongly about, I don't intend to gainsay you on that. If beating David Xanatos is something you feel so strongly about, then by all means, let that be your position.

But let us not confuse who our actual enemies are. Toffee and Bill are power-hungry madmen with vendettas against all that breathes. Xanatos is a friendly acquaintance.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's exactly the dichotomy I am talking about. The category I am presenting is "people who look like they stand a chance at winning the game", not "prople who are genocidal". We look at Xanatos opposing Toffee and Bill and go, "well, he doesn't want to genocide everyone, so we may as well choose to surrender to him".

And it might be smart, to give up on all our ambitions to serve the greater good and becoming another piece in Xanatos' board (or it might not, we can't know) in his chess match against Toffee, Doris, and Bill. But it feels like quitting.

TheGleeman said:
Also, I am getting kinda annoyed at everyone scoffing at the very notion of David harbouring at least *some* yet-distant fondness and admiration for Doof - after all, we helped him contain the Sanderson Witches during the Auction *and* saved his friggin bacon during Twelfth Night - try as he might, he simply *Can´t* be not affected even the slightest bit by that without stopping to still be fundamentally human.

Sure, it´s only an *ember* of positive predisposition, but it´s not *nothing* either and can still grow into more all the same.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Xanatos had a lot of respect and fondness for Goliath for most of the show, it never stopped him.

TheGleeman said:
A kind of Tier 3 Infiltration we can easily deal with by *Doof simply keeping his trap shut every now and then*, since HE HIMSELF is that leak rn
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not how it works, Xanatos teaching us how to keep secrets means he can tell what we are trying to hide just by how we try to to hide it. It is essentially gives Xanatos a backdoor into our Intrigue engine for the rest of the game.

Jastolus said:
-He's not trustworthy, but he is sort of reliable in his goals. Given greater threats, he is unlikely to directly betray us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Unless betraying us would give him a better chance to defeat the greater threats, I'd like to say. Sometimes in chess, you have to sacrifice your Knight to take the opponent's King.

bigking321 said:
He already has tier 3 infiltration of us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And if we say "No", he explicitly loses it.

bigking321 said:
Yes, absolutely.

But it would be good against EVERYONE ELSE!!! Like Doom and Toffee and Bellwether and the government.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Xanatos wants the government to succeed. Giving Xanatos permanent Tier 3 infiltration means the Government effectively has Tier 3 infiltration, at least on every action taken against the government.

TheGleeman said:
*Exactly*

Being someone´s junior-partner is NOT the same as being their subordinate, even though it still is kinda limiting admittedly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It does. It literally does.

[X] Develop Your Center
 
Last edited:
Lab_Accident said:
Xanatos wants the government to succeed. Giving Xanatos permanent Tier 3 infiltration means the Government effectively has Tier 3 infiltration, at least on every action taken against the government.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh, right, that point hasn't really been acknowledged. Xanay is in bed with the feds, and...I don't get the sense we should trust them either.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top