Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
Xanatos was patient and a realist. If he's tied down by a family, I can easily see his victory not being super glaringly obvious quite yet.
DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest
- Thread starter Made in Heaven
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Tied down" may not be the right words to use. Fox and Alex helped him grow and mature as a person. He had something to fight for and protect outside of himself. Also, weren't the Wyvern Hill Clan the entire reason that he and Fox ever even met in the first place?
I meant more that if Bill or Xanatos had achieved their ultimate victories then we wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell and there wouldn't be any real point in playing
- Location
- Southbend indiana
Shouldn't we focus on getting more actions instead of an occult hero?
I want to do it before something big happens but they have high DCs and we have more pressing matters right now. So we'll just have to keep on chugging along.
- Location
- Oregon
Pretty confident Syndrome was the leaker. Wants to push a bunch of rivals and competitors into acting and catch them all red handed at his moment of triumph. Wouldn't be shocked, the man has a love for traps.
Those actions have incredibly high DC's that make them incredibly difficult and of questionable worth since spending a turn doing them only to fail would be a huge waste
Thankfully the Diplomacy DC goes down more the better our AI is so once we have the Chip and have made sure it's safe getting the extra Diplomacy action should be possible
As for why getting an Occult hero is such a high priority it's because every time we take an Occult action we get absolutely no bonus to it and are relying entirely on the dice being kind
That means on the DC 55 action we've taken this turn we only have a 45% chance to succeed and a 27% chance to crit fail and we have no way of effecting that
I doubt it, Russ critically succeeded on his investigation and found absolutely no indication that the gala is a trap nor did Shego, Syndrome probably doesn't think enough of Doof to set a trap for him in the first place and Syndrome probably doesn't have 40 Intrigue
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The diplomacy is already within striking range.
95-15-28(Goofy) -5.2 (loyalty) - 10 (Omakes) = 47.8
And it benefits from AI research, which we are trying to steal a bunch of soooo.....
Ditto the think tank if we can get a learning Hero. The one we really need to find a way to lower is improve administrative efficiency.
Intrigue 40? Syndrome is somewhat sneaky dealing with individual heroes but he relies heavily on Mirage, who just left.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I mean maybe. But if so...
1) He would probably be more prepared for Shego to show up than he seems to be... though if piercing her disguise is a DC 90 Intrigue check for Xanatos, it may be hard enough for Syndrome that he 'tried' and failed.
2) There's a fairly good chance Mirage would know about the trap, since he's been planning this gala for some time.
Yeah, me neither. Although, uh... well, I've been rethinking things a bit on that front. I'd always assumed most of the other Kings had statlines broadly like Doof's, only rearranged: a couple of numbers in the teens, a couple in the twenties, and one in the upper thirties or forties. Something like that.
The revelation that Xanatos and Shego are prrrobably both rocking primary stats up in the neighborhood of seventy has caused me to revise upward the limits of the plausible.
Yeah. It LOOKS as if the email leak was done by someone with, specifically, an Intrigue score of 40. And yeah, Syndrome does seem to have been leaning significantly on Mirage, and she doesn't have Intrigue 40 or anywhere close to it, so it would seem a bit weird for her to be his primary Intrigue hero if true.
...Then again, if you look at the dynamics of our hero unit assignment, our main Learning hero unit is LOVEMUFFIN, so that line of argumentation is probably faulty.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If she just left, could she have been the leaker or is the timeline of events off there? I don't remember if she was already up for recruitment before or after that happened.
Anyhow, regarding the next full turn, do you guys have any kind of major plans or goals you've been trying to accomplish across turns? I didn't read any non-story related posts going through the quest.
Evillevi
A Pikachu for everything - Shadow Pikachu,2015
It's important to note that our playstyles are quite different.
Xanatos and Shego are active playmakers. They need to leverage their primary stat into schemes to bring the most benefits to their goals.
We on the other hand are turtlers and just spam massive amount of actions to do anything. It's my thought that the Omnidroids basically gives syndrome multiple martial actions while our more varied focus gives us more raw actions+assist to balance it out.
- Location
- Wherever I feel like being
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Right now I want to push for getting multiple National actions, we're rapidly being buried under too many needed actions and not enough slots to do them in.
- Location
- Southbend indiana
Not really technor has a way higher learning stat Vanessa is also a better learning hero hell agent Russ has better learning but he's our intrigue hero so he doesn't count lovemuffin is basically just our extra action
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My two pet projects are combating Toon racism and liberating Hawaii, which can probably be furthered by Blue Hawaii and taking down Doom.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
You may be right. On the other hand, I don't think we actually have enough intel to have a good picture of what Shego, let alone Xanatos, are up to, so I don't want to make too many assumptions.
I think the AI chip will hopefully make that achievable for us. If not, we should make "continue AI research" a priority.
The thing is, we haven't had Technor or Vanessa as hero units for very long.
LOVEMUFFIN has taken a Learning action every turn since game start and was handling several of our breakthroughs, by contrast.
For the first several turns (coincidentally, the same turns during which Syndrome still had Mirage on-side), someone watching us would in fact infer that we were relying to some serious extent on LOVEMUFFIN.
The point is, it's entirely plausible that someone like Xanatos might be relying on a primary Intrigue hero who's good, but nowhere near as good as he is. It is certainly, now that I reflect on it, plausible that an Intrigue 40 Syndrome would still be employing an Intrigue 28 Mirage as his primary Intrigue hero.
The only real question is "could Syndrome have Intrigue 40," and y'know, I'm a bit less sure he doesn't than I was before I realized just how high on the scale Xanatos was. Because I was thinking, no, a 40 would be like... Xanatos-tier or something, no way Syndrome is in that league. Only to realize that I had badly underestimated just where Xanatos' league was.
While you're right that it's within range there's a couple of things that you didn't account for
First, Goofys loyalty bonus is +4 not +5, Second, the end DC amount would be 38 not 47 and Third, with Goofys trait we'd still have a 10% chance to crit fail even with a +10 from XP
Yeah, we really might as well wait until we can integrate the AI from the chip
Yeah the best ways I can think to approach the think tank is to either try and get Technors power issue solved, which Greevil Power might help with, which would give us at least a 51% chance to succeed or getting Jumba who might have a higher Learning than Technor since that's his main schtick
I wouldn't necessarily take them as representative of the other Kings
Shego is literally a Super that can shoot plasma from her hands, has been training/fighting since she was a young teenager, has fought people with countless different fighting styles and is completely ruthless and Xanatos is so memetically good at Intrigue that he has a trope named after him
Iirc the turn we recruited her was the exact same one when we got the information on the gala though given that she hasn't admitted to having been the one to give the info and was surprised when she learned what Doof was planning I doubt that it was her
Personally my favourite theory is that the AI that Syndrome is going to introduce isn't completely willing and did what they could to get some help
Again, spending a turn pursuing those actions when they're so unlikely to succeed and we have ways to make them easier is more of a waste than just using the actions we currently have
I'm all for getting the second Diplomacy action once we're sure that the Chip is safe but we shouldn't rush the other options out of impatience
Evillevi
A Pikachu for everything - Shadow Pikachu,2015
Note that the weird thing is that on a we have a massive defensive buff. So while we can't win reliably against Xanatos or shego at their strengths, THeir stats are about -25 lower due to trait shenanigans so they don't win instantly against us.The only real question is "could Syndrome have Intrigue 40," and y'know, I'm a bit less sure he doesn't than I was before I realized just how high on the scale Xanatos was. Because I was thinking, no, a 40 would be like... Xanatos-tier or something, no way Syndrome is in that league. Only to realize that I had badly underestimated just where Xanatos' league was.
Edit: Xanatos has it worse since he can get a max debuff of -45 for aggresive intrigue actions against anything within our HQ. Which includes us .
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes. When I thought Xanatos' Intrigue might be (gasp) 45 or something, which you have to admit is pretty high by CK quest standards... Well, then I was very sure Syndrome didn't have Intrigue 40.
But now, seeing Xanatos swing around Intrigue 72, I have to ask myself... "Am I sure that Syndrome isn't just a little better than HALF as cunning as Xanatos?"
And my answer is "He probably isn't, but... I'm not sure anymore."
That's all I'm getting at.
She doesn't have the right Intrigue score if we can rely on that 40 (I'm not sure). On the other hand, she definitely has high enough Intrigue to trick Doof into thinking she's surprised when she's not.
The thing you have to remember about Mirage is that she has at least a 21-0 track record of luring supers to their death without them suspecting a trick until it was too late, over and above her other qualifications.
That is definitely the most likely single explanation I can think of.
To be fair, gambling one action for a 50/50 chance of getting two actions on all subsequent turns sounds like not such a bad gamble. Especially since lowering the DC probably won't lower it enough for us to be truly sure of success, especially in the areas where Doof's base stat is lower. At some point we're gonna have to take the plunge.
The problem is that that trait relies heavily on us being underestimated. I'm not sure Xanatos is underestimating us anymore, and Shego may not be either.
I mean.
Agent Russ has infiltrated the shit out of Toontown without, so far as I know, setting foot inside Judge Doom's headquarters. He learned a lot about this gala without infiltrating Syndrome's headquarters. Just because HQ is secure, doesn't mean our entire country is secure.
Xanatos is a meme at this point.
This. I generally feel we should start looking to spam this on anything where we have two decent heroes for it. The moment we get even one decent science hero I'd advocate going for the Think Thank. Our base science is high enough we can afford to send lower DC heroes on it and take actions with more risk. Right now our single action a turn heavily locks us into taking only the extremely safe actions we can reliably succeed at. An extra action let's us throw some at more long-shot odds.
Remember we can give up three personal actions (Doof gets four a turn) to give a action Doof's personal attention for a roll two dice take the highest.
Edit: we've used it before on the action to take Control the remains of OWCA. Might want to do that on the actions to gain more national actions.
Edit: we've used it before on the action to take Control the remains of OWCA. Might want to do that on the actions to gain more national actions.
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- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Thank you for the insight and information guys!
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We might want that. On the other hand, Doof's personal actions are valuable so we can only do that so often- but we could do it for a special occasion where there's otherwise a high risk of failure.
That's fair, I highly doubt that he does but we can't be sure right now
This is true
Yeah eventually but why take unnecessary risks with a 50/50, which is being generous, when we have ways to lower the DC?
For example why rush to do the Diplomacy action next turn when we can wait one turn, get the AI improvement from the Chip and make it a far more certain thing?
I'm all for going for the Think Tank once we have Jumba since he'll almost certainly have even better Learning than Technor and with him we'll have a pretty good chance at succeeding it, especially if people spend XP on it
However I'm against "spamming" for example the Stewardship action since we have so low a chance at succeeding and there's no point in continuously wasting our Stewardship action on the desperate hope that we roll well enough to succeed
Honestly while that's useful it requires giving up so many things that only Doof can do that I want to avoid using it unless absolutely necessary
weredrago2
"Cowabunga, Shadow the Hedgehog..."
- Location
- Florida
She's immortal. Same as Macbeth, until their mutual curse of everlasting life is lifted.
- Location
- Anatolia
And? If villains win, that might mean Macbeth got his way.