I mean, we told them to do Mad Science, and didn't specify who to direct it towards (also that's a terrible analogy).

At the end of the day it wasn't Love Muffin that cost us reputation and income: it was us.

It would be one thing if they went off and just did this on their own - quite another if they did so under our orders.
Even if that was accurate (it isn't; this isn't mad science, it's just terrorism and undermining us and I bet they knew that and are just using us as an excuse), going by your logic we made this mess. Therefore, we must take responsibility and clean it up. Starting by making sure LOVEMUFFIN never does this again. Which means arresting them
 
In a sense, this a reckoning for Doofenshmirtz on what kind of villain he wants to be. It's sort of like Hego grappling with the Golden Age of superheroes ending but from the other side, with the monologues and the showmanship and the wink-and-nod escapes at the end of every episode. Back when there was a status quo to play with.

Doofenshmirtz is playing a different game now. He can't monologue and rampage through the streets, he owns those streets. LOVEMUFFIN don't get that, but I think this could be the moment that Doofenshmirtz wakes up. They want to keep playing mad scientist, but reality is ensuing. The world's changed, kids, and if you can't change with it you're gonna get left behind.

Next turn would be a really good time to build on that character development by, for example, giving up on playing King of Doofania. At least that's how I'd play it.
 
Well, if it gets too hard, we could try to sic a few more hero units on them. That ought to fix them. Besides, it will do Hego some good to hit a few actual villains
Good idea! Send Hego after LOVEMUFFIN after we fire them if they turn out to be a problem.
I mean, we told them to do Mad Science, and didn't specify who to direct it towards (also that's a terrible analogy).

At the end of the day it wasn't Love Muffin that cost us reputation and income: it was us.

It would be one thing if they went off and just did this on their own - quite another if they did so under our orders.
And keeping them enables this behavior that costed us our money and rep. Ya'll can go on about how we are to blame, but we shouldn't allow obvious damages to our branding and company go without reprisal.
 
I don't really care that we'd be giving up what is basically our only ACTUAL natural advantage as a King versus Shego's One-Woman-Army and Mr. "Xanatos Gambit" since Inators are freaking useless despite being fun in narrative (which the narrative doesn't often get brought up beyond two sentences so they don't even serve an entertainment purpose). I. AM. DONE. I just wish we could cut the moratorium early, hammer in one of the two options in early, and MOVE ON to something actually fun before I start to become overly salty at this constant string of failures in every single roll I actually care about. Lovemuffin is obtuse in terms of how to improve them, and needlessly arrogant and picky for when we try to make them happy in a productive manner. I am done with them, and I am done with this turn and want to just move on already.

Seriously, if we do all agree to get rid of them (which I don't know if we do), could we just cut the moratorium early?!
 
I mean, on one hand, this is OUR city. You don't unleash your doomsday devices on your own territory! You head to conquer NEW territory with it! This is the most basic application of mad science, honestly.

On the other hand, permanently losing a Hero unit is pretty rough, even though the dice never really loved them to begin with and it clears space to hire someone else. The most likely result with arresting them would be them breaking out (or being freed by an enemy faction) at some point, it just makes sense given the setting and power of narrative.

Now, arresting them and handing them off to the foreign government that is the USA certainly is appealing and might mitigate some of our opinion hits, while arresting them and keeping them in our own prisons could help us make sure they stay there (and whatever other uses we can find with them, test subjects maybe?).

Keeping them on-board results in extra penalties for more useful units, not to mention the poor precedent it sets for them for repercussions, and... ultimately doesn't seem to have much of an upside considering their track record.

We might want to have Jumba at least get a talk from HR, but considering his actions just led to a dragon-experiment that is perching around the city (notably the castle) and it isn't causing any trouble (beyond loitering in a distracting manner as people stare at the giant dragon) Jumba caused the least amount of chaos despite most likely making the most dangerous piece of Mad Science during this whole ordeal. We'll probably need to have him spend some actions on training or at least housebreaking the Experiment, but it could be the only positive thing to come out of this, maybe serving as an extra guard beast to boost our security more considering how it likes the city. That or we can send it on strafing runs for nearby actions, depending on its abilities/purpose. What number is it anyway?
 
Here's a thought:
Could one of the consequences mentioned in the jail Lovemuffin options be "OWCA forms a turn early"?
 
Honestly, even if firing LOVEMUFFIN might mechanically not be the greatest choice....Eh, I'm of mind to do it anyway. Because I am just getting tired of dealing with their shit. They used to be very nice to have around, but now that we can't use them for safe actions and are constantly running on a treadmill to satisfy their egos while trying and failing to get them to not break shit, I wonder if they're causing us more frustration than enjoyment as quest-players.
 
In a sense, this a reckoning for Doofenshmirtz on what kind of villain he wants to be. It's sort of like Hego grappling with the Golden Age of superheroes ending but from the other side, with the monologues and the showmanship and the wink-and-nod escapes at the end of every episode. Back when there was a status quo to play with.

Doofenshmirtz is playing a different game now. He can't monologue and rampage through the streets, he owns those streets. LOVEMUFFIN don't get that, but I think this could be the moment that Doofenshmirtz wakes up. They want to keep playing mad scientist, but reality is ensuing. The world's changed, kids, and if you can't change with it you're gonna get left behind.

Next turn would be a really good time to build on that character development by, for example, giving up on playing King of Doofania. At least that's how I'd play it.
Yeah, going by Doof's old habits and reinforcing the evil he used to do isn't going to work out anymore. It's a different world and Doof needs to adapt to it. He can't be the same villain he once was while fighting Perry. If he tries, he's just going to get his butt kicked. And let's not forget how this will affect our other hero units. They may not be affected directly by this, but it will change their perspective of how we operate, and could influence future loyalty changes, Hego especially. Also, people are gonna look at us and think we're mentally unstable. We did not build up the relationships we have with Shego, the Zaibatsu and fucking Xanatos by being the petty, evil, collateral-damage-causing, chaotic neutral goofball from the old days. We did that by being the competant, lawful evil, corporate managing, jack-of-all-trades villain that the world got to see at the Sands and played a heavy role in at Christmas. I am not risking our hero units and our reputation with the other players on this board because some immature, egotistic, spoiled brats wanna throw tantrums like it's something to be proud of.
 
Next turn would be a really good time to build on that character development by, for example, giving up on playing King of Doofania. At least that's how I'd play it.
Absolutely never and it's statements like this that make me unwilling to trust that the voter base won't do that if the opportunity for a low DC arises.

Seriously, I'd be a lot more willing to work with you guys on the plans that seem sensible if you guys stopped using every single failure we have to push this same talking point! It's stressful and it makes me feel as if every single failure is pushing you guys one step further towards getting enough votes to ruin the quest for me. It's bad enough that this Cyberpunk quest also has to deal with an out-of-genre apocalypses on multiple levels that break the genre enough to be more annoying* than fun. I'd really like it if you guys just laid off constantly pushing this bit for at least a while.

Like, I'd LIKE Doof to work through his trauma, or receive some other character development! I don't want to give up Doof to become bargain-bin Xanatos! We are Doofquest, and we should keep the eccentricity even if we never try to push it to its fullest! That is what makes Doof unique at its core.

*the apocalypses, not the quest
 
Like, I'd LIKE Doof to work through his trauma, or receive some other character development! I don't want to give up Doof to become bargain-bin Xanatos! We are Doofquest, and we should keep the eccentricity even if we never try to push it to its fullest! That is what makes Doof unique at its core.
Also true. Still though, there's a difference between being eccentric and random and going on sprees of chaos and destruction with a bunch of six-year-olds in the bodies of whatever-year-old men. Do you disagree?
 
I hate that the dice put us in this place. Losing LOVEMUFFIN will hurt, but keeping them limits the chance to get access to some of the best stuff.
Its a coin flip for me. Only good thing if we arrest is that we might be able to hold LOVEMUFFIN for a while. Not long, they have enough skill that they will get loose at some point, no matter what we do.
 
Despite LOVEMUFFIN's successes, it was mostly because we gave them idiot-proof tasks. The simple fact of the matter is that LOVEMUFFIN was never sustainable in the long run, especially with Doof's character development in actually becoming a ruler. I did not want it to be such a suboptimal scenario when we let them go but this quest has never coddled us. All we can do is play the long game and fire LOVEMUFFIN.
 
Also true. Still though, there's a difference between being eccentric and random and going on sprees of chaos and destruction with a bunch of six-year-olds in the bodies of whatever-year-old men. Do you disagree?
Don't shift the goalposts. I already said here:
I don't really care that we'd be giving up what is basically our only ACTUAL natural advantage as a King versus Shego's One-Woman-Army and Mr. "Xanatos Gambit" since Inators are freaking useless despite being fun in narrative (which the narrative doesn't often get brought up beyond two sentences so they don't even serve an entertainment purpose). I. AM. DONE. I just wish we could cut the moratorium early, hammer in one of the two options in early, and MOVE ON to something actually fun before I start to become overly salty at this constant string of failures in every single roll I actually care about. Lovemuffin is obtuse in terms of how to improve them, and needlessly arrogant and picky for when we try to make them happy in a productive manner. I am done with them, and I am done with this turn and want to just move on already.

Seriously, if we do all agree to get rid of them (which I don't know if we do), could we just cut the moratorium early?!
that I support arresting them and the response I made very specifically talked about giving up the dream of Doofania. Drop that point because I am not in the mood right now for people not reading my post and pretending I said something different.
 
Am I the only one who thinks it's awesome that we got a freaking dragon that should defend our territory?

I think it's a great bonus, but also slightly panicking due to the fact that it's going to draw in the Huntsclan who will probably set up a base in our territory soon due to its mere existence!!

Dragon Hunters got to hunt something after all!!
 
No write-ins this time.
I honestly think that's for the best since anything other than one or the other would just give us the worst of both worlds.
I think it's a great bonus, but also slightly panicking due to the fact that it's going to draw in the Huntsclan who will probably set up a base in our territory soon due to its mere existence!!

Dragon Hunters got to hunt something after all!!
We can just play it off as just some genetically engineered creature (which it is). People will buy it since we are a notorious eccentric and we brought back the dinosaurs.
 
In a sense, this a reckoning for Doofenshmirtz on what kind of villain he wants to be. It's sort of like Hego grappling with the Golden Age of superheroes ending but from the other side, with the monologues and the showmanship and the wink-and-nod escapes at the end of every episode. Back when there was a status quo to play with.

That's a good point. We have a LOT of DCs that depend on our Introspection. Norm, The Federal Government stuff.... Doof reckoning with his past and growing past it is... that's a pretty cool narrative I never really get to see in quests.
 
They shit where they ate. We have no reasonable chance of just adjusting them because, to be clear, they hate us. They'll never get over their past, either.
Despite LOVEMUFFIN's successes, it was mostly because we gave them idiot-proof tasks. The simple fact of the matter is that LOVEMUFFIN was never sustainable in the long run, especially with Doof's character development in actually becoming a ruler. I did not want it to be such a suboptimal scenario when we let them go but this quest has never coddled us. All we can do is play the long game and fire LOVEMUFFIN.
Exactly. Both are very valid points. Also, they aren't the best hero unit in and of itself. Not only are their stats a complete joke (and not a funny one), they have a terrible trait:
Bargain Bin Rejects: Most of these guys couldn't even make it as D-rate supervillains. You're pretty sure there are capes out there theming themselves after condiments and fruit that have more clout than this group. As such, the threshold for critical failure is two thirds of the total DC rather than the normal one half. A DC 60 action would have a critical fail threshold of 40.
Honestly? The costs of keeping them have started to long since outweigh the benefits. I realize that now and feel kinda stupid for arguing for their improvement for so long.
Drop that point because I am not in the mood right now for people not reading my post and pretending I said something different.
I was trying to say you were right. Sorry if that didn't come across that way.
 
I doubt the Huntsclan would buy that, even if it's true.
They try anything, we play the terrorist card. "They assaulted us and destroyed our property," we say. We also present the paperwork and lab notes to prove the dragon was engineered. Do that, we paint the Clan as a bunch of fanatics that kill anything that remotely resembles a monster. With all that fear and negativity, people are gonna steer clear of them for a long time
 
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