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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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Katahiraga said:
I think the problem with lovemuffin, is that Doof has been taking them for granted, by giving them mediocre tasks, they feel that Doof is sidelining them like Hego, only they realize it, so to solve the problem, Doof has to do something important for them, let them reach their potential, practive some mad scientist thing, involve them more into Doof's inner circle instead of treating them like glorified henchmen.
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So, any thoughts on how to remedy that situation? They'll only really be happy with something truly villainous or mad-sciencey, I suspect. Their potential is hampered by their many, many, *many* issues. In that regard, they need training. Ludivine, TECHNOR, Khan, and some other heroes come to mind. Since we'll be emphasizing low-DC actions next turn to take advantage of the automatic critical successes, that seems like a good opportunity to have them do something truly impressive that will slake their ego.
 
MrHobbit said:
Oh I'm sure he does. But I would still rather not take narrative time away (or lengthen turns even more) just to satisfy the urge to recruit a hero. I'd rather spend that time on heroes that have much stronger narratives. QTesseract put it far better than I did.
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First, it's not the urge to recruit a hero, it's because we've pretty solid chances of recruiting heroes we'd like to have each time we take the action. If we pass the action we've around 47% chances of getting a Hero with a "strong narrative" as you put it, these are more or less the same as the chances of getting a meh Hero. And if we don't pass the Gacha there's no new hero so it isn't a concern.

Second, the bloat argument doesn't make a lot of sense, at all. As an example, until now and from all the heroes we've got has there been one that has taken "narrative space" at all? Moreover, even if the hero we get is rather meh I trust MiH to make him interesting, like Dennis for example.
 
I am honestly starting to wonder if Lovemuffin needs a reality check in the form of getting what they want in such a way that if/when they screw up it is solely through their own failure in an area where the collateral damage wouldn't cause us trouble.

Main issue with that I can see would be Lovemuffin going in denial and blaming us anyway... I'm not really sure how to effectively handle the problem without them actually getting over their contempt of Doof.
 
Just for ease of reference, here's the Rolladex and the semi-obfuscated stats for each. I will be listing the number of dots on the cards, each dot is between 1 and 15.

Momakase: Convert, Super, Villain, Martial 2, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 4, Learning 1

Frugal Lucre: Villain, Martial 1, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 3, Intrigue 1, Learning 2

Mesmerella: Super, Villain, Martial 1, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 3, Learning 2

Juniper: Super, Villain, Martial 2, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 1, Learning 1

Warren Peace: Super, Villain, Martial 3, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 1

The Birthday Bandit: Super, Villain, Martial 2, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 1

Radium Dog: Animal, Super, Hero, Martial 3, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 1, Learning 1

Duff Killigan: Super, Villain, Martial 3, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 1

Spydah: Covert, Super, Villain, Martial 2, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 3, Learning 2

Fredzilla: Super, Hero, Martial 2, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 1, Intrigue -1, Learning 1

Buzzsaw Girl: Super, Hero, Martial 3, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 1, Learning 1

Hyena: Super, Villain, Martial 3, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 1

Dingo: Super, Hero(?), Martial 4, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 2

The Fujitas: Super, Villain, Martial 3, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 2, Intrigue 2, Learning 1

Megavolt: Super, Toon, Villain, Martial 3, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 4

Naughty Kitty: Super, Villain, Martial 2, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 3, Learning 1

Motor Ed: Super, Villain, Martial 2, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 1, Learning 4

Go Go Tomago: Super, Hero, Martial 3, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 3

Gomez: Villain, Martial 2, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 1, Learning 3

Jet Headstrong: Super, Hero, Martial 2, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 2, Intrigue 1, Learning 1

Wolf: Super, Villain, Martial 3, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 1

The Arrow: Super, Hero, Martial 2, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 3, Intrigue 3, Learning 2

Jackal: Super, Villain, Martial 3, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 1

Toolbox: Super, Robot, Hero, Martial 2, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 1, Learning 3

The Glooms: Magic, Villain, Martial 2, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Occult 3

Hans Rotwood: Neutral, Martial 1, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 2, Intrigue 2, Occult 3

Ms. Megawatt: Super, Hero, Martial 3, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 2, Intrigue 1, Learning 1

Monkey Kid: Animal, Super, Hero, Martial 1, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 2, Intrigue 1, Learning 2

Man-Moth: Super, Weird, Hero, Martial 3, Diplomacy 1, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 3, Occult 2

Candela: Super, Villain, Martial 5, Diplomacy 2, Stewardship 1, Intrigue 2, Learning 1

If we want heroes, if for no other reason than to avoid controversy, Dingo, Go Go Tomago, The Arrow, and Man-Moth would be our best picks. Dingo and Arrow have solid stats across the board while Go Go and Man-Moth have a good array for questing. In terms of villains, there are a few one stat powerhouses, namely Momakase, Motor Ed, and Candela.
Megavolt has good stats, but I suspect he'd cause more trouble for the thread than he is worth.
 
TirelessTraveler said:
So, any thoughts on how to remedy that situation? They'll only really be happy with something truly villainous or mad-sciencey, I suspect. Their potential is hampered by their many, many, *many* issues. In that regard, they need training. Ludivine, TECHNOR, Khan, and some other heroes come to mind. Since we'll be emphasizing low-DC actions next turn to take advantage of the automatic critical successes, that seems like a good opportunity to have them do something truly impressive that will slake their ego.
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The shiv and post-key dimensional research are both mad sciencey and easy enough for LOVEMUFFIN, but in the end the real problem is that "easy enough for LOVEMUFFIN" is still a necessary quality for anything we put LOVEMUFFIN on. Their egos are as big as Jumba's, but they can't actually back it up like he can, so sooner or later we're just not going to have any mad science that they can be trusted to do but they'll still be demanding it because despite all available evidence to the contrary they think they can handle the big stuff.
 
Torgamous said:
The shiv and post-key dimensional research are both mad sciencey and easy enough for LOVEMUFFIN, but in the end the real problem is that "easy enough for LOVEMUFFIN" is still a necessary quality for anything we put LOVEMUFFIN on. Their egos are as big as Jumba's, but they can't actually back it up like he can, so sooner or later we're just not going to have any mad science that they can be trusted to do but they'll still be demanding it because despite all available evidence to the contrary they think they can handle the big stuff.
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If that's the Choice, lets have them do SHV. I'd rather research the crystal Key before the Extradimensionator.
 
Torgamous said:
The shiv and post-key dimensional research are both mad sciencey and easy enough for LOVEMUFFIN, but in the end the real problem is that "easy enough for LOVEMUFFIN" is still a necessary quality for anything we put LOVEMUFFIN on. Their egos are as big as Jumba's, but they can't actually back it up like he can, so sooner or later we're just not going to have any mad science that they can be trusted to do but they'll still be demanding it because despite all available evidence to the contrary they think they can handle the big stuff.
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That's my main point, if we give them something that will fail due to wholely their incompetence and ego, but not in such a way that it causes massive harm and damage, we could give it to them and hopefully have Technor prevent them from dodging the responsibility. If we negate their ego issues suddenly they become immensely more useful and could even become as great as they think they are.,
 
To satisfy LoveMUffin ego, they have to participate in something important, such as attacking Doom or even beating one of Doof's hated enemy, or interacting with one of the Kings, like Xanatos or something, just treat them like a important inner circle member like Goofy and Janna, make them stronger, smarter, give them a difficult task, have them fail occasionally as long as they improve or get something valuable out of it, like Xanatos 'failed' plots.

Have them lead operations once in a while, while giving them support, get them to understant the concept of team work, instead of servitude.
 
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argenten said:
That's my main point, if we give them something that will fail due to wholely their incompetence and ego, but not in such a way that it causes massive harm and damage, we could give it to them and hopefully have Technor prevent them from dodging the responsibility. If we negate their ego issues suddenly they become immensely more useful and could even become as great as they think they are.,
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There have been talks about restructuring them so we should just put them in actions they'll succeed (like the laser or the Other Dimension-inator) for now.

Torgamous said:
I did say "post-key". We can do the shiv and key next turn and dimensions the turn after, but then we're stuck hoping that we'll get some new low DC learning actions and sooner or later we just won't.
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Let's hope that Jumba has unlocked some good, low DC, Genetics actions.

Edit:

Katahiraga said:
To satisfy LoveMUffin ego, they have to participate in something important, such as attacking Doom or even beating one of Doof's hated enemy, or interacting with one of the Kings, like Xanatos or something, just treat them like a important inner circle member like Goofy and Janna, make them stronger, smarter, give them a difficult task, have them fail occasionally as long as they improve or get something valuable out of it, like Xanatos 'failed' plots.
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The problem is they won't fail occasionally. They'll fail always if we do this. Moreover, they want to do mad science not "little things" like buying companies or the like.
 
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Torgamous said:
I did say "post-key". We can do the shiv and key next turn and dimensions the turn after, but then we're stuck hoping that we'll get some new low DC learning actions and sooner or later we just won't.
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I suspect that our chat with the bossman action unlocked a "reorganize Lovemuffin" personal though.
 
Yet, LoveMuffin , without failing or attempting to do something important, they won't grow, they will remain the same like Hego floundering their way in life.
 
Retrueno said:
There have been talks about restructuring them so we should just put them in actions they'll succeed (like the laser or the Other Dimension-inator) for now.
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That's fair, give them enough to negate the malus, then when we're ready to restructure either give them that gives us a fig leaf for doing so or something that gives them a high so they don't care.
 
Should we set Lovemuffin up to critfail in the next turn to give them a reality check? I mean, all the better if they crit-succeed, but is there a piece of tech they can't possibly figure out and that we wouldn't mind wasting?
 
So! While we're close to the subject of Shego, I ...might have an idea, in that direction. And, it ... might not have to do with marrying her?

*Dramatic-Weather-Inator goes off in the distance*

...man, we really need to recalibrate that thing. Its Ominous Sensors are way off. Anywho, I first want to clarify that this is a long-term strategic goal, not a rush-in-with-two-or-three-actions-and-expect-a-miracle sort of endeavor. It will likely be the work of at least two or three in-game years to accomplish, and even if we choose exactly the right actions and get fantastic rolls, it's still gonna be at least four turns before we even get a chance to pull it off. And, of course, there's the sad fact that it all hinges on one critical assumption:

I don't think Shego actually wants to run her territory.

Oh, she wants the power, to be certain. She drinks the respect like its her daily breakfast smoothie, and I'm positive she bathes in her millions of dollars before she goes to bed with her harem of attractive men and/or women every night. But everything we've seen of her in canon, both in the original Kim Possible and here in Doofquest, seems to suggest that she finds the day-to-day minutiae of it all ... just a little intolerable?

We know she was lazy about knocking out the Drug Cartel before she had to. Heck, we put in more effort to stopping "The Resistance" and that was a DC 5 action about a bunch of punk kids spraying graffit and tipping Normbots like they were particularly militaristic cows. The interlude "Meeting in the Middleton" reveals that she keeps several fidgetable toys on her desk, for if she happens to get bored or angry while engaging in work - and the fact that there are multiple of them within arms' reach suggest that happens frequently. Her big plan to surreptitiously sneak into the Gala was to hire a bunch of people that could easily be traced back to Sky High to bust in and really obviously cause chaos while she, eh, grabbed some stuff? And when Gwen betrayed her, instead of cutting off all ties with her or at least looking into alternate avenues of attaining supermercs, she ... cut off their school funding for a year or two. And, you know, for as much as she rolls her eyes at us and our perception of territories, we stated to her face that we were buying Bueno Nacho with the goal of eventually, somehow, attaining a foothold in her territory, and she was basically like, "Eh, whatever."

Shego likes power. She likes control, and feeling respected. She enjoys being the most competent and put-together person in the room. And she likes all of that enough to tolerate the responsibilities of being head of a Megacorp.

But look at the green-and-black-and-surly-all-over picture this Quest has painted and tell me this woman enjoys the Shadowrun approach, as opposed to the murderhobo approach. Honestly, I think if there was a way for Shego to keep her "Holdings" but delegate all the responsibility of them, she'd pounce on that, even if the deal was suboptimal.

...so ... what if we give her that way?

We've both got what the other wants, here. We want the other half of Colorado, and wouldn't mind a few additional states in the bargain. Shego wants someone who can look at the sneakies and the mean ol' number-crunching and make sense of it all, so she can go out and be Evil and Glowy instead of sitting at a desk all day. And we both want power, right?

Here's what I'm thinking.

1) We make inroads to gain Shego's trust, or at least, her appreciation of our uncharacteristic competence. As part of this - and this will be a difficult task - we stop being so insistent on her giving us the other half of Colorado.
2) Once we have Shego's trust and appreciation and/or as a way of building such, we corroborate with her on a few projects we both want to do. Secretly, we're approaching this as a way to sell our organization: we want Shego to be green with envy over our Hero Units and what they can do.
3) Once Shego's trust has begun fully maturing, and almost as a continuation of our giving her the heads up about the drug ring, we get ourselves involved (with her permission) in the stuff she doesn't like. Spywork, investigative work. Maybe sounding out some business deals for her, if we're really sly. That sort of thing.
4) Shego isn't dumb, and is likely to notice we're slowly building up influence over her, her hideout, and her henchmen. That's fine. We aren't trying to be sneaky about it, and might even make overt reference to doing so. Frame it carefully, sure, but emphasize that this is a cooperative thing, not a hostile takeover.
5) Propose the Plan. No public announcement will be made, no legal paperwork signed, and nobody outside maybe the boardrooms has gotta know, but ... don't you want to get back out there, Shego? Don't you want to remember what it's like to rob a moving train, or take an important politician hostage with your own to glowing-green hands? Should a CEO - a ruler, really - consider themselves with such delegable details, in any case?
6) Implement the Plan: Shego still remains CEO, in all legal terms, and in all ways that matter. PR direction, business partners, Sky High scholarships, whatever. However, she can outsource all the, eh, finicky bits, to her good friends at Doofenschmirtz Evil Incorporated. In exchange: a cut of the profits, monetary, research, potential hires and connections, etc etc. Not even the lion's share, just ... a cut. And advisory power, too - not even overriding power, or real, actionable political pressure, just the metaphorical GPS in your dashboard while you work the wheel, Shego.
7) Slowly, over time, Shego finds more and more important parts of the company to be "minutiae" she doesn't wanna bother with. Without us ever suggesting a thing, without us making even an overture of a hint of a suggestion, Shego comes up with the idea "all on her own" that, eh, Doof can probably decide for himself what to do with Drakken and his cronies this quarter; not like there's anything pressing going on, and anyway, there's that ski trip going on that's just full of people who have more money in their wallets than some small countries have in all their assets...
8) Welcome to the Sept-State area, or as we like to call it, Hail, Hail, Doofania! Also more Hero Units, research opportunities, and political power both hard and soft. A crunchy mechanical outside with a fluffy narrative center!

TL;DR: Let's give Shego a metaphorical back massage, commiserate about how tough being a CEO can really be, and offer to take some of the oh-so-stressful busywork off her shoulders, why, all you'd have to do would be to let us call Colorado ours in private; no hidden grab for power here, no sir
 
AProcrastinator said:
TL;DR: Let's give Shego a metaphorical back massage, commiserate about how tough being a CEO can really be, and offer to take some of the oh-so-stressful busywork off her shoulders, why, all you'd have to do would be to let us call Colorado ours in private; no hidden grab for power here, no sir
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That's great! and never gonna work. Not in a million years.


Katahiraga said:
They haven't gone on important quests or missions yet.
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Can we even send them on a Quest?
 
Katahiraga said:
Yet, LoveMuffin , without failing or attempting to do something important, they won't grow, they will remain the same like Hego floundering their way in life.
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Katahiraga said:
They haven't gone on important quests or missions yet.
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THIS, quests provide them a source of numerous low-stakes failures to learn and grow from in a covert setting.

They might even unlock an occult stat if we send them on a quest with janna!
 
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AProcrastinator said:
So! While we're close to the subject of Shego, I ...might have an idea, in that direction. And, it ... might not have to do with marrying her?

*Dramatic-Weather-Inator goes off in the distance*

...man, we really need to recalibrate that thing. Its Ominous Sensors are way off. Anywho, I first want to clarify that this is a long-term strategic goal, not a rush-in-with-two-or-three-actions-and-expect-a-miracle sort of endeavor. It will likely be the work of at least two or three in-game years to accomplish, and even if we choose exactly the right actions and get fantastic rolls, it's still gonna be at least four turns before we even get a chance to pull it off. And, of course, there's the sad fact that it all hinges on one critical assumption:

I don't think Shego actually wants to run her territory.

Oh, she wants the power, to be certain. She drinks the respect like its her daily breakfast smoothie, and I'm positive she bathes in her millions of dollars before she goes to bed with her harem of attractive men and/or women every night. But everything we've seen of her in canon, both in the original Kim Possible and here in Doofquest, seems to suggest that she finds the day-to-day minutiae of it all ... just a little intolerable?

We know she was lazy about knocking out the Drug Cartel before she had to. Heck, we put in more effort to stopping "The Resistance" and that was a DC 5 action about a bunch of punk kids spraying graffit and tipping Normbots like they were particularly militaristic cows. The interlude "Meeting in the Middleton" reveals that she keeps several fidgetable toys on her desk, for if she happens to get bored or angry while engaging in work - and the fact that there are multiple of them within arms' reach suggest that happens frequently. Her big plan to surreptitiously sneak into the Gala was to hire a bunch of people that could easily be traced back to Sky High to bust in and really obviously cause chaos while she, eh, grabbed some stuff? And when Gwen betrayed her, instead of cutting off all ties with her or at least looking into alternate avenues of attaining supermercs, she ... cut off their school funding for a year or two. And, you know, for as much as she rolls her eyes at us and our perception of territories, we stated to her face that we were buying Bueno Nacho with the goal of eventually, somehow, attaining a foothold in her territory, and she was basically like, "Eh, whatever."

Shego likes power. She likes control, and feeling respected. She enjoys being the most competent and put-together person in the room. And she likes all of that enough to tolerate the responsibilities of being head of a Megacorp.

But look at the green-and-black-and-surly-all-over picture this Quest has painted and tell me this woman enjoys the Shadowrun approach, as opposed to the murderhobo approach. Honestly, I think if there was a way for Shego to keep her "Holdings" but delegate all the responsibility of them, she'd pounce on that, even if the deal was suboptimal.

...so ... what if we give her that way?

We've both got what the other wants, here. We want the other half of Colorado, and wouldn't mind a few additional states in the bargain. Shego wants someone who can look at the sneakies and the mean ol' number-crunching and make sense of it all, so she can go out and be Evil and Glowy instead of sitting at a desk all day. And we both want power, right?

Here's what I'm thinking.

1) We make inroads to gain Shego's trust, or at least, her appreciation of our uncharacteristic competence. As part of this - and this will be a difficult task - we stop being so insistent on her giving us the other half of Colorado.
2) Once we have Shego's trust and appreciation and/or as a way of building such, we corroborate with her on a few projects we both want to do. Secretly, we're approaching this as a way to sell our organization: we want Shego to be green with envy over our Hero Units and what they can do.
3) Once Shego's trust has begun fully maturing, and almost as a continuation of our giving her the heads up about the drug ring, we get ourselves involved (with her permission) in the stuff she doesn't like. Spywork, investigative work. Maybe sounding out some business deals for her, if we're really sly. That sort of thing.
4) Shego isn't dumb, and is likely to notice we're slowly building up influence over her, her hideout, and her henchmen. That's fine. We aren't trying to be sneaky about it, and might even make overt reference to doing so. Frame it carefully, sure, but emphasize that this is a cooperative thing, not a hostile takeover.
5) Propose the Plan. No public announcement will be made, no legal paperwork signed, and nobody outside maybe the boardrooms has gotta know, but ... don't you want to get back out there, Shego? Don't you want to remember what it's like to rob a moving train, or take an important politician hostage with your own to glowing-green hands? Should a CEO - a ruler, really - consider themselves with such delegable details, in any case?
6) Implement the Plan: Shego still remains CEO, in all legal terms, and in all ways that matter. PR direction, business partners, Sky High scholarships, whatever. However, she can outsource all the, eh, finicky bits, to her good friends at Doofenschmirtz Evil Incorporated. In exchange: a cut of the profits, monetary, research, potential hires and connections, etc etc. Not even the lion's share, just ... a cut. And advisory power, too - not even overriding power, or real, actionable political pressure, just the metaphorical GPS in your dashboard while you work the wheel, Shego.
7) Slowly, over time, Shego finds more and more important parts of the company to be "minutiae" she doesn't wanna bother with. Without us ever suggesting a thing, without us making even an overture of a hint of a suggestion, Shego comes up with the idea "all on her own" that, eh, Doof can probably decide for himself what to do with Drakken and his cronies this quarter; not like there's anything pressing going on, and anyway, there's that ski trip going on that's just full of people who have more money in their wallets than some small countries have in all their assets...
8) Welcome to the Sept-State area, or as we like to call it, Hail, Hail, Doofania! Also more Hero Units, research opportunities, and political power both hard and soft. A crunchy mechanical outside with a fluffy narrative center!

TL;DR: Let's give Shego a metaphorical back massage, commiserate about how tough being a CEO can really be, and offer to take some of the oh-so-stressful busywork off her shoulders, why, all you'd have to do would be to let us call Colorado ours in private; no hidden grab for power here, no sir
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This is absolutely amazing. Moreover, it doesn't even seem like something impossible from a meta-perspective since another King is trying to do something similar (remember that Xanay is trying to puppet the US Government).
 
Retrueno said:
First, it's not the urge to recruit a hero, it's because we've pretty solid chances of recruiting heroes we'd like to have each time we take the action. If we pass the action we've around 47% chances of getting a Hero with a "strong narrative" as you put it, these are more or less the same as the chances of getting a meh Hero. And if we don't pass the Gacha there's no new hero so it isn't a concern.

Second, the bloat argument doesn't make a lot of sense, at all. As an example, until now and from all the heroes we've got has there been one that has taken "narrative space" at all? Moreover, even if the hero we get is rather meh I trust MiH to make him interesting, like Dennis for example.
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I think you are overestimating the amount of heroes the thread would like to have. There are eight or so heroes that I suppose most of the thread would agree on. The rest just don't fit in at DEI as easily. We already have ninja(s). We don't even have a strong chance of getting those. We're much more likely to get one of the less interesting heroes or just nothing at all. We don't have a special need for heroes currently, so I see no reason to risk it.

Dennis was given to us as the Second in Command of our PMC. He also works with our pro-Toon policies and our goal to find Donald. Most of the other options only really synergize with our desire to form a black ops team, but with capes that we don't actually need because we don't know what it does exactly.

Anyways, I suppose this has gone on for a while, agree to disagree?
 
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