Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I like this one. Can we do this one?
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Honestly, I'd settle for "Jiraiya hands Hazou a couple more C-rank defensive seals with a very resigned expression".
EDIT:
Oh, that reminds me: Tunneller's Friend is special.
It can absorb and release volumes of air called "air points". You consume more air points while exercising than when at rest.
Seems straightforward, right?
No.
How does the seal know that you're exercising, and it needs to release more air points to compensate?
My guess is that, while active, the seal has some way to monitor the "oxygen : not oxygen" ratio of the air, and releases more air points when that value gets too low. In which case, we could mod it for other kinds of chemical analysis.
EDIT:
Oh, that reminds me: Tunneller's Friend is special.
It can absorb and release volumes of air called "air points". You consume more air points while exercising than when at rest.
Seems straightforward, right?
No.
How does the seal know that you're exercising, and it needs to release more air points to compensate?
My guess is that, while active, the seal has some way to monitor the "oxygen : not oxygen" ratio of the air, and releases more air points when that value gets too low. In which case, we could mod it for other kinds of chemical analysis.
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- Location
- Europe
Regarding seals... @eaglejarl , @Velorien , @OliWhail , can you tell us what kind of Seal Jiraiya was trying to make in Chapter 164: Missions and Messanges, the one Orochimaru send us? Maybe that would help us to figure out what that kind of message Snake uncle send us.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Thatis a fascinating question. In the meantime, I should mention that air points have been replaced with METs in the FtD ruleset for cost calculation purposes.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
FWIW, we're actually changing that one to use METs. We didn't realize they were a thing when we created the seal and air points were an effort to model the thing that METs already does.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[x] Lore Update: Exams from Konoha's Chunin Scene
[x] A letter from Hiruzen Sarutobi to his successor
[x] Previous attempts to sell the Orochi-mansion
Also we haven't had anything particularly YOUTHFUL lately, so
[x] Lore Update: Gaisuit Gai: YouthDen Origins
[x] A letter from Hiruzen Sarutobi to his successor
[x] Previous attempts to sell the Orochi-mansion
Also we haven't had anything particularly YOUTHFUL lately, so
[x] Lore Update: Gaisuit Gai: YouthDen Origins
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- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Whoops, its Sarutobi, not Saratobi. Oh well.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
It's only got two votes that way, we can fix it.
[x] A letter from Hiruzen Sarutobi to his successor
[x] Previous attempts to sell the Orochi-mansion
[x] Omake: A crossover with EJ's current favourite story
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
You'd have to ask Jiraiya
Oh crud.
I just remembered something that was bugging me about fate: before the system change we were planning out how to help Hazou with his social problems through protracted campaigns of including character-development-encouraging sections in plans. Now we are not only incentivised to not do that, but actually to make him worse so that it's easier to farm FP.
How fix?
I just remembered something that was bugging me about fate: before the system change we were planning out how to help Hazou with his social problems through protracted campaigns of including character-development-encouraging sections in plans. Now we are not only incentivised to not do that, but actually to make him worse so that it's easier to farm FP.
How fix?
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
By defying the incentives. Most growth first requires a period of regression, followed by reaching parity to the starting point, and then superiority to the starting point. Just because having bad social problems is a local optimum does not make it the global optimum; this is a rational quest first and foremost, and if we wanted to solve the world's problem without using social assistance we shouldn't have joined Leaf.
The game incentives take a backseat to simulationist incentives, and I can tell you that getting better at social is by far more important.
All of that is true, but I'm worried about the hivemind's ability to follow through on long-term plans that run at odds to immediate short-term bonuses. It requires us being sensible, and remembering the priorities, consistently and reliably over a period of time on the order of weeks at minimum to effect any real character growth.
We really haven't yet figured out how to solve that kind of long-term coordination problem.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Maybe just "Don't do that?"
First, ask yourself: Do you want to acquire Fate Points or do you want to accomplish your goals?
Second, if you deliberately give Hazō bad advice then he will simply ignore it.
Third, remember that you get FP for winning conflicts as well as for taking consequences. Ask yourself: is "got 1 FP and achieved my goal" more or less valuable than "got 3 FP, suffered nigh-irreparable social harm, did not achieve my goal"?
Fourth, recall that there are plenty of people out there with social higher than Hazō's, and most of them are in positions of power. Improving his socials simply means he'll be able to play in bigger ponds and have more leverage. After ranking up you'll be able to accomplish more when playing against people who are at Hazō's current level, and you can still (attempt to) farm XP, you'll just be doing it against more skilled opponents. (Prior questions all stand, of course.)
- Location
- Europe
Since acquiring FP is a very frequent instrumental goal... Yes.
Maybe we should try farming FPs by doing foot-in-mouth-syndrome in small amounts, like accidently offending Ino's father or pissing of Jiraiya. Instead of getting killboxed in Mist. That gives us points and we have some character developement.
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- Location
- USA
Counter Point: The QMs are the one in charge of the Fate Points and they are the ones we need to impress with our plans and methods. The system is just a guideline by which the QMs can use to reduce spoon load. Negatively guiding Hazou can and will lead to a bad end.Since acquiring FP is a very frequent instrumental goal... Yes.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
On the contrary, that only cements Hazou's foot-in-mouth syndrome, which is something we do want to work our way out of. The more incidents Hazou has where he is socially inept, the harder it is for IC-Hazou (who has final power now) to be socially competent when he really needs to be.
"Can", certainly. Not convinced on "will". That depends on to what degree he is negatively guided.
But bringing this back to my point, I'm uncomfortable with the idea that we now have very conflicting incentives. We have our terminal goals. We have the "sensible IC" instrumental goals to achieve them, but now we also have the "at least arguably sensible OOC, completely frickin' insane IC" instrumental goal of cultivating personality flaws to maximise FP that let us win skill checks.
The only way out of this conflict of incentives I'm seeing is to deliberately engineer fish-out-of-water scenarios where Hazou plunges into unfamiliar challenges head-first so that less severe character flaws will still be able to satisfy FP-farming. And I'm not entirely convinced that would work.
To clarify: I don't want Hazou to cultivate IC character flaws for FP. I am, however, very uncomfortable that the system provides incentive to do so.
The logic behind Fate points as originally conceived is that the end goal of a game is to be fun and entertaining. Fun and entertaining are not synonymous with successful and optimal actions. It's often the screw-ups and set-backs that are most memorable and enjoyable to reflect on after you have played a game. Admittedly, more so if they were only set-backs rather than permanent failures. So the GM can request or the player can volunteer that "bad stuff" happen, while simultaneously getting a bennie (fate point) that will help the character bounce back and recover from that bad stuff in the long term. However, often a Fate point merely alleviates the sting. Sometimes a Fate Point will be by no means balances the eventual consequences of the Compel. The rest of the consequence is supposed to be because all the players at the table are entertained at the result.
Ask yourself yourself, why the hell do you care if this fictional character Hazou succeeds in his quest? What does it matter what happens in fictional ninjaland? You're not going to get any bitcoins in real life for leading the Elemental Countries to your post-scarcity chakra utopia. You care only because you're emotionally invested in the character and maybe for the sheer challenge of it. Living through bad stuff with the character makes you more invested in him. Unexpected set-backs make the challenge greater and give more pleasure in overcoming it.
Oh, and it doesn't have to be "personality flaws". Aspects can represent stuff not under the characters control as well. You could have an aspect like, "A very punchable face" meaning that characters often tend to react with greater hostility than they should on meeting the PC for the first time just because they don't like the look on his face. Peter Parker would have an aspect, "That Parker Luck", to represent him constantly getting screwed over by coincidences and misfortunes he could not have controlled.
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