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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Raxner said:
If Keiko, who is brilliant even without the Skein and beyond even that when she uses the Skein, and who furthermore is a highly skilled ranged fighter with a large payout of explosives, and who furthermore has Hazo's trust and is therefore able to approach him without alarm, decides to kill him, he will be dead. "Attempt" is the wrong word here, is what I'm saying.
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It's an "attempt" because Tenten (who came up with the idea of flowcharts all on her own, and thought it was a pretty clever idea) realises what happened and bursts into the Gouketsu living room, just as Keiko is screaming bloody murder at / pelting shuriken at her terrified and confused adopted brother, and manages to talk Kei down.
 
Velorien said:
The danger there is that when the voices in Hazō's head tell him to do something, they do not necessarily mention that he should be doing it in the spirit of hypocrisy.
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What we told him to do:

The Salient Points said:
  • People died, and that sucks.
  • I want to focus on the positive: we accomplished what we set out to do.
    • Keiko, you demonstrated just how powerful and useful your pangolins are, exactly as you said they would be.
    • Noburi, you dealt with that situation with surgical precision: no non-combatants were killed in the takedown and you effortlessly captured two experienced ninja with no risk to our team.
    • We didn't mess up and accidentally kill Goda despite the fight between several Chunin or better combatants.
  • Given our status as a heavy-combat squad I don't know if we could have done any more.
  • BUT as we get stronger and stronger, we'll gain the skill and ability to do better, and next time hopefully have other options than hurting innocents.
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And the whole quote of what was actually said:

"A lot of people died, and that sucks. This entire situation sucked for all of us. We are ninja, we exist to hold the line against the darkness. We are Team Uplift, dedicated to not just holding off the darkness but of raising up the light, to saving lives and making them better. We're also a heavy combat team, not an infiltration or capture squad. To mangle a phrase, we go to where the bad guys are and we kick their asses up into their necks—that's what we're good at. This courier mission, capturing Goda, this is all outside our skillset. Minami—Captain Minami, you had to make a hard call that should never have been forced on you. I'm not sure I would have had the courage to do what you did, and I hope none of us ever have to again.
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It's a matter of personal judgement whether he actually approves, and it is true that yours, eaglejarl's, and OliWhail's are the only ones that matter, but it doesn't come across to me as "Hazou thinks killing people was the right choice", so much as "Hazou thinks killing people was a very difficult decision for Minami, and that she did what she thought was right. Putting himself in her shoes, he probably would not have been able to do that, given his own morals"
 
Cariyaga said:
It's a matter of personal judgement whether he actually approves, and it is true that yours, eaglejarl's, and OliWhail's are the only ones that matter, but it doesn't come across to me as "Hazou thinks killing people was the right choice", so much as "Hazou thinks killing people was a very difficult decision for Minami, and that she did what she thought was right. Putting himself in her shoes, he probably would not have been able to do that, given his own morals"
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And I read it in the exact opposite way. You can project whatever motivation and thoughts you want on Hazō and have it be completely legitimate. It ultimately doesn't matter since any truely meaningful decision will be voted on.
 
Oneiros said:
And I read it in the exact opposite way. You can project whatever motivation and thoughts you want on Hazō and have it be completely legitimate. It ultimately doesn't matter since any truely meaningful decision will be voted on.
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I wouldn't say any motivation... glances at Radvic
 
Cariyaga said:
I wouldn't say any motivation... glances at Radvic
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except Hazo has been thinking about WMDs pretty much constantly. Pretty sure that if the situation was even remotely close to having an enemy that a WMD was a viable weapon Hazo wouldn't hesitate to use them. So even Radvic's motivation works.
 
Oneiros said:
except Hazo has been thinking about WMDs pretty much constantly. Pretty sure that if the situation was even remotely close to having an enemy that a WMD was a viable weapon Hazo wouldn't hesitate to use them. So even Radvic's motivation works.
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He hesitated to turn over a mobster for extermination, and Yakuza in general. "Wouldn't hesitate to use them" seems like a bit of an exaggeration.
 
Cariyaga said:
He hesitated to turn over a mobster for extermination, and Yakuza in general. "Wouldn't hesitate to use them" seems like a bit of an exaggeration.
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yes and he hesitated to turn over the mobsters because the plan we voted in had him hesitate. If we would have voted to kill the guy outright Hazou would have killed him. Projecting how you feel about ethical things onto Hazou won't change the fact that if the hivemind votes for a course of action that it will happen.
 
Winged_One said:
Ah, but Hazou is controlled by spaceless timeless monsters from the Out that know about this possibility and will prepare accordingly.
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Sorry, said spaceless timeless Outies already relinquished veto power to Hazo's characterization. He won't do anything outside his nature even when the Outies want him to, and it's not in his nature to suspect his dear friend and adopted sister Keiko of approaching him for the purpose of murder.

MadScientist said:
It's an "attempt" because Tenten (who came up with the idea of flowcharts all on her own, and thought it was a pretty clever idea) realises what happened and bursts into the Gouketsu living room, just as Keiko is screaming bloody murder at / pelting shuriken at her terrified and confused adopted brother, and manages to talk Kei down.
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If Keiko is pelting shuriken at him with intent to kill, the first one will strike him in a critical spot (such as the throat, or go through an eye straight into his brain) and he will be dead. That's especially the case if it has an explosive seal attached. She won't bother to scream at him or throw non-explosive shurikens at non-vital points if she is trying to kill him.

Oneiros said:
And I read it in the exact opposite way. You can project whatever motivation and thoughts you want on Hazō and have it be completely legitimate. It ultimately doesn't matter since any truely meaningful decision will be voted on.
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See my response to @Winged_One above.
 
Cariyaga said:
I'm sure it'll be fine.
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Thanks for the like, @eaglejarl, your vote of confidence means a lot. :p
e:
1234qwerty said:
[x] Lore Update: Exams from Konoha's Chunin Scene
[x] Lore Update: Naruto reminisces about Naruto
[x] Lore Update: Nara feeling pretty confident in their projections shortly after Swamp
[x] Lore Update: Shikamaru loves truck; assistant hears he might get married to Keiko's
[x] Lore Update: The humble YOUTHSUIT of a trials and tribulations merchant
[x] Lore Update: Gaisuit Gai: YouthDen Origins
[x] Lore Update: that one time Tenten had to wear Neji, and why it's still happening... never youthsuit again

[x] Lore Update: Kabuto has an ordinary-not-at-all-suspicious day
[x] Lore Update: A young librarian and Neira discussing suitors
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Actually...

[x] Lore Update: Gaisuit Gai: YouthDen Origins

I would like to know more about Gai.
 
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Well, the smartest people do hold some pet conspiracy theories. Makes it easier to tell truth from fiction, or something to that effect. I will have to double check the source for that though.
 
Raxner said:
Sorry, said spaceless timeless Outies already relinquished veto power to Hazo's characterization. He won't do anything outside his nature even when the Outies want him to, and it's not in his nature to suspect his dear friend and adopted sister Keiko of approaching him for the purpose of murder.


If Keiko is pelting shuriken at him with intent to kill, the first one will strike him in a critical spot (such as the throat, or go through an eye straight into his brain) and he will be dead. That's especially the case if it has an explosive seal attached. She won't bother to scream at him or throw non-explosive shurikens at non-vital points if she is trying to kill him.


See my response to @Winged_One above.
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As If monsters couldn't vote that power back in.
 
I am deeply moved by the generosity of spirit inherent in the assumption that Keiko will want to kill Hazō for interfering in her love life.
 
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