Huh...

Is Econ basically our corvee labor stat? So the Yeomen pay with corvee labor instead of coin?
Low class(ignoring Patricians and Priests, who count their lifestyle as inherently corvee)Corvee labor means different things in different places.
Urban:
-Manual haulers carrying government goods
-Demolition of old structures and facilities
-Construction of new facilities
-Roadworks(transporting gravel from the smelters to the mills and out)

Rural:
-Harvest time
-Barnraising
-Irrigation upkeep
-Roadworks(laying gravel)

As such, Urban corvee labor is represented by Wealth, because it's money not spent hiring the urban poor to do things. Rural corvee labor is largely represented by Econ, because all that comes out of the manpower used to improve harvest output.
Which shows to me that the reforms are going to be counterproductive.

The only permanent solution to the Half-exile issue is to improve productivity. But the thing we're doing now cripples those productivity improvements. At the same time, it will force us to take rural Wealth producing actions that rely on mass labor.

So, we create an illusion of equality in the city, and mass inequality in the rural areas. Combined with panem, that coukd get ugly.
No, you're missing the problem. The HUGE problem:
-Rural half exiles were a convenient dumping ground for political undesirables.
-Rural half exiles were becoming hereditary in the absence of new undesirables. This is partly because everyone but the half exiles' children had SOMEBODY who'd object to the sentence
-Urban half exiles were economical, leading to a far greater number of half exiles being misused than before, because the industries had plenty of dirty work. We ruled the furnaces to be skilled labors, but that still leaves the vast amount of industrial waste disposal that you could spend money to put an apprentice to deal with, or you could get a half exile to do for free.
-By being required to pay half exiles a minimum wage for their work during their sentence, it prevented recidivism countrywide, because they aren't forced into crime because they leave the sentence with no money and no connections.

By removing economical incentives, and increasing wealth circulation, the foundational abuse is undermined.
Modern prisons(well, state prisons rather than the commmercial system the USA uses) do pay the prisoner for labor done as a prisoner, of which the money is held until their release.
This has been noted to have a significant impact on their being able to rent a place to live, buy a minimal but respectable wardrobe, and thus get employed rather than going to crime because they look like a hobo.


Nope.

The point of Black Soil is that it like a binding agent for nutrients. Especially nitrogen which is extremely easy to wash out.

Any runoff will be effective for maybe one growing season at the outside, if it's any notable quantity at all at this tech level and farm density.

The Black Soil itself doesn't wash out either. The whole point of our obsession with agriculture is to prevent stuff like erosion from even happening.

I think it was even a major point when what became Redshore joined up with us.

So our use of Black Soil has at most a marginal impact on the Highlanders. What would hurt them more is if the silt is stopped at the Dam or the floods aren't as intense as they need them.

Or of course Ymaryn Longships suddenly sailing down the river and laying siege to their most productive farmland. Unlike Trelli, the HK are logistically speaking on our frontlawn.
This is Word of AN.
He said that the trace runoff from our Black Soil had caused the lowlands along the river to become abnormally rich over the thousands of years.

Erosion happens period. We minimize it, but there is literally no way to stop fine particles from washing downriver. Also keep in mind that while the particulates themselves might not wash that far down the water, we're adding enriched nutrients to water, which causes increase in fish and other riverine life, which in turn enriches everything downriver.
It's impossible to fortify the fields. Make it impossible for them to to harvest food and they will starve behind their walls.
China did it though. You absolutely can fortify fields. You just need to think bigger in terms of walls.

European city walls were really quite small.
No, not at all.

Puritans - you say some taint is ok, but you also say taint of slavery is unacceptable. Hypocrisy much?
Orthodox A: You are correct. Let's make taint of slavery acceptable! And by the way, you are dissolved.
Orthodox B: Hmmm, Puritans do have a point, it seems. If half exiles are tainted, than these filthy outsiders must be as well. And by the way, well done.
Orthodox C: It's not like that. Cause it isn't.
Orthodox D: Puritans do have a point. The current treatment of half exiles is unacceptable. They are nearly slaves. Let's correct this! And this does not excuse the shit you are pulling, by the way.
Orthodox E: Heaven will show us the way!

Only A and D are pushing back against Puritans as well.
Factoring in the Word of AN.

Orthrodox: "As you can see, there is no spiritual basis for the isolation and exile of those who come from other beliefs and places. But there lies a great injustice in the violence committed upon these people, which causes spiritual contamination"
Puritan: "However, observe the half-exile. Are they not tainted?"
Orthrodox: "Yes, but they have been formally judged to be tainted and through labor they expiate their taint. Your treatment of foreigners as tainted without proper judgment is itself a corruption."
Puritan: "Well look at how many half exiles come from foreign famili-"
Orthrodox Zealot: "By the spirits, you're right, we should have seen this. Outsiders truly are corrupt, and must purge their corruption through labor to become pure! It would be virtuous to purchase foreigners and purify them!" (this statement was brought to you by the Green Fish Dyers Association)
Puritan: "What, no you nitwit your blind pursuit of profit has twisted your very soul. Everyone knows your uncle pays off the clerks to put him at the top of the rotation for half exiles to take away the large amounts of snail guts he makes every day in the pursuit of corrupt lucre!"

Audience: *Falls silent*

Orthrodox: "Well, let us put that aside and resume-"

Audience: "No. Explain. In Detail."
 
Purity->Light of the World
Seeking the best society can be difficult, with hard choices along the way. However, to shy away from these choices does little good, and great harm. Taking action now insures the best for society, making Ymar the light that the world aspires to.
Pros: Bonus to some social reforms, improved desease and resisting foreign pressures.
Cons: Penalties to not starting social reforms, can bring up changes that are not wanted.

Also, Freehills-Harmurri-Ymar Coalition (Team Gamers) is a go?
 
I suspect our current choice is going to have a big influence on how Purity evolves in the future.
And the "Reform the Half-Exile Practice" is likely to push it in the direction of an anti-hypocrisy, purity-of-practice trait, yes.

The useful bit is that keeping Purity around makes it somewhat harder for other religions to push into Ymar, which is pretty important if we actually want to keep slavery out.

It'll probably help preserve our other traits, as well.

It's just likely to be another expensive trait, because Purity doesn't mesh well with Pragmatism. In the short run, anyway.
 
Assuming we're not in a war:

[Main] Great Dam (-2 econ, -2 wealth, -2 tech)
[sec] Great Hall Annex (-2 econ, -2 culture)
[sec] Temple (-3 econ -3 culture)
[sec] Invite Forhuch
[sec] Enforce Justice
[sec] Expand Econ (6 econ, -2 tech)
[sec] Support Faction (trader)
[Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-5 econ, -5 expansion, 7 wealth, 2 diplomacy, 1 culture, 1 econ next turn)
[Guild] Build Dock (-2 econ, -2 wealth, 3 diplomacy)
[Guild sec] Efficient Charcoal Kiln (-1 econ, -2 wealth, -2 tech, -2 sustainable forest)

Any plan that doesn't increase our wealth buffer for the next turn is needlessly limiting and dangerous. It becomes much harder to react to unexpected problems if we're constantly worried about dipping into negative wealth. We need to be increasing our wealth, not simply hovering at barely neutral.
 
Purity has the potential to be a very useful value so long as we force it to evolve in a good direction. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if we evolve it right here. Removing the xenophobic tendencies is going to be difficult but it's virtually required if we don't want to die of the plague from all our cities.

Also, Freehills-Harmurri-Ymar Coalition (Team Gamers) is a go?
I really don't see why Freehills would be involved in this war. They're nowhere near the lowlands, what do they get out of it?

Any plan that doesn't increase our wealth buffer for the next turn is needlessly limiting and dangerous. It becomes much harder to react to unexpected problems if we're constantly worried about dipping into negative wealth. We need to be increasing our wealth, not simply hovering at barely neutral.
We should be raising our wealth through overflow in both directions (but especially econ). That's the best option we have for the next couple turns (until the markets finish coming online)
 
We should be raising our wealth through overflow in both directions (but especially econ). That's the best option we have for the next couple turns (until the markets finish coming online)
The best way to raise our wealth is to not take wealth draining actions in lieu wealth generating ones. We'll be spending significant amounts of culture and tech before even factoring in any reaction votes, which eats into overflow unless we go ham on it. Taking actions like Docks and Kilns while at 7 wealth is needlessly reckless and limits our options going forward.

If people are worried about the half exile vote, then they need to ensure we're near our cap when the main turn ends. Simple as that.
 
I really don't see why Freehills would be involved in this war. They're nowhere near the lowlands, what do they get out of it?
The HK actually has a lot of neighbors. Us to the North and East, the Freehills to the West, the Khem to the South-West, and the the Harmurri to the South.

They fought with Freehills over southern Anatolia, and they seized Khem's levantine colonies.
 
The best way to raise our wealth is to not take wealth draining actions in lieu wealth generating ones. We'll be spending significant amounts of culture and tech before even factoring in any reaction votes, which eats into overflow unless we go ham on it. Taking actions like Docks and Kilns while at 7 wealth is needlessly reckless and limits our options going forward.

If people are worried about the half exile vote, then they need to ensure we're near our cap when the main turn ends. Simple as that.
Docks generate more stats than they spend, and we have a +6 income on diplomacy and are getting something like *checks* +24 income on the stats on the other Culture+Diplomacy side of the isle.

Edit: That is, in terms of overflow, which is what we care about they generate more stats then spend for wealth gain. They're rather cost neutral in total and we want the innovation for boats.

That said, what actions should we look at taking next turn? I'm not familiar with current plans that include the war.

I really don't see why Freehills would be involved in this war. They're nowhere near the lowlands, what do they get out of it?
They took over the Khemitri colonies which the Freehills border. If we wreck their martial they can't defend said new territory.
 
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Any plan that doesn't increase our wealth buffer for the next turn is needlessly limiting and dangerous. It becomes much harder to react to unexpected problems if we're constantly worried about dipping into negative wealth. We need to be increasing our wealth, not simply hovering at barely neutral.

OK. We switch out the docks in exchange for building ceramic kilns. It makes the sustainable forest usage neutral.
 
Support for a Diplomacy mission next turn? Better relations with either of the four nations we border that aren't the highlands would be beneficial, it costs little and gives us wealth.
 
Docks generate more stats than they spend, and we have a +6 income on diplomacy and are getting something like *checks* +24 income on the stats on the other Culture+Diplomacy side of the isle.

Edit: That is, in terms of overflow, which is what we care about they generate more stats then spend for wealth gain. They're rather cost neutral in total and we want the innovation for boats.

That said, what actions should we look at taking next turn? I'm not familiar with current plans that include the war.

Kiba's plan calls for 9 culture spent, and it is not unique in this regard. We won't be seeing nearly as much overflow as people are expecting. Docks are tolerable in this situation due to Diplo being so maxed, and may be possible if most of our other actions are light on wealth, but Kilns are not. The only argument they have going for them is, "But what if our policies build like a bunch of ironworks for no reason!" Which is not really convincing, and can be applied to literally any resource or situation with little effort.

OK. We switch out the docks in exchange for building ceramic kilns. It makes the sustainable forest usage neutral.

Better plan:

[Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
[Guild] Build Dock (-2 econ, -2 wealth, 3 diplomacy)
[Guild sec] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles

More wealth, same tree situation. Docks can be switched out for more wealth if we need it for whatever reason, like a Raise Army.
 
You know what? I find it hilarious that our expense and income will start getting bigger than our cap.
Amusing and true. This is what happens when you have a society that has anti hoarding laws... but also has really expensive tastes.

This turn is going to be the worst of it though. It will be much, much less difficult to manage if we can just be conservative with our spending for a single turn, get the buffer up and go from there.
 
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
 
[X] [Dam] Make it as big and impressive as possible (2 Wealth and 2 Tech per action added to remaining costs, requires an additional 3 actions to complete)
[X] [Purity] If slavery is so bad in comparison, maybe even the half-exiles need to be addressed (-1 Stability, the next Patrician, Guild, and Trader quests are all spite quests, all Wealth costs are doubled going forward)
 
Wait, why do people want to Diplo Mission exactly?

Diplomatic Mission [Trader] – Contact with the outside world is expensive, but can bring its own rewards
* S: -2 Wealth, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo
* M: -2 Wealth, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1 Diplo, +1-3 Diplo end of turn, +0-2 Wealth end of turn

Factoring in overflow and doubled wealth costs, it results in:

-3 to -2 wealth for a Sec
-2 to +2 wealth for a Main

Sec is a for sure stat loss, and we probably won't have the actions for a Main, never mind the fact that it could still go terribly. Sure, take the Diplo Mission for the narrative effects, but it's not exactly good on the wealth front.
 
Better plan:

[Guild] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles
[Guild] Build Dock (-2 econ, -2 wealth, 3 diplomacy)
[Guild sec] Plant Cash Crops - Textiles

More wealth, same tree situation. Docks can be switched out for more wealth if we need it for whatever reason, like a Raise Army.
Yeah, about that.
Plant Cash Crops - Textiles [Guild][Yeomen] – Planting these water and soil hungry crops can produce large quantities of useful fibres for sturdy ropes and comfortable clothing. Available: Hemp, Cotton, Flax
*S: -3 Econ, -4 Econ Expansion, +6 Wealth, +1 Diplo with boats, +1 Econ next turn other effects
*M: -5 Econ, -5 Econ Expansion, +7 Wealth, +2 Diplo with boats, +1 Culture, +1 Econ next turn, other effects

Plant Cash Crops – Luxuries [Yeomen] – These crops are those that make life a bit more vibrant, flavourful, and exciting. Available: Wine, Dyes, Spices
*S: -2 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +2 Wealth, +2 Culture, other effects
*S: -5 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, +6 Wealth, +2 Culture, other effects
-Econ Expansion 7 [+8-5] [Overcrowding Min: -5]
I would highly suggest making one of those a luxuries.

Actually, looking at the action and the front page, I'd suggest doing something like Luxuries- Spices, because it looks like we could do that and we have dominance in the other two.
If we have a spare two actions at some point, the Diplo Mission/Invite sounds good.

I think almost everyone is planning to invite Forhuch.
 
I'm just concerned that the heroic martial king of the Forhuch may take a swing at Txolla while we are distracted by the HK. I'd like to either invite them to the games or send them another trade mission.
 
Wait, why do people want to Diplo Mission exactly?

Diplomatic Mission [Trader] – Contact with the outside world is expensive, but can bring its own rewards
* S: -2 Wealth, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo
* M: -2 Wealth, -1 Econ, additional effects depending on target, +1 Diplo, +1-3 Diplo end of turn, +0-2 Wealth end of turn

Factoring in overflow and doubled wealth costs, it results in:

-3 to -2 wealth for a Sec
-2 to +2 wealth for a Main

Sec is a for sure stat loss, and we probably won't have the actions for a Main, never mind the fact that it could still go terribly. Sure, take the Diplo Mission for the narrative effects, but it's not exactly good on the wealth front.

...Huh, got them reversed. Trade mission then? Same-ish benefit, the right exchange.
 
I would highly suggest making one of those a luxuries.

Actually, looking at the action and the front page, I'd suggest doing something like Luxuries- Spices, because it looks like we could do that and we have dominance in the other two.
Unfortunately, only textiles is a Guild action now. Gonna take regular actions if we want those.
 
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